Play Nice Eddie McGuire comments on holding Caro Wilson underwater

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H2F said:
In the end Caro made a stand so this is taken seriously.

She's forgiven him and moved on.

He'll learn from it and the end result was a good one. I also respect Sam Newman too he also made a point that vendetta's are not on and that was heard too whether people recognise it or not.[/QUOTE]



What in hecks name are you talking about. Vendetta against who?
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happy_eagle said:
People are allowed to take offense to language if they want.
I agree that you should be able to say whatever you like in whatever context you like (and you can). But if somebody doesn't like what you say, or believes that it contributes towards a culture where violence against Women is deemed inevitable, then they are well within their right to voice that opinion too.

It has to go both ways. If you want the freedom to blurt out any opinion you want, then you have to accept that there will be those that want to call you out for that opinion. I dont believe that being offended entitles you to anything or automatically puts you in the right, but in this case i'd say the arguments against McGuires comments hold up pretty well, and the people defending those comments do not.
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Yes. But I also believe that a difference of opinion gives someone the right to disagree, and argue effectively their case to the contrary, but I don't believe that it should give the right to name-call and label someone a "racist", "sexist", or "homophobe".

What if you call someone these names, and they get offended. Since it 100% matters only what the person offended thinks, and intent etc, play no part, then why can't people who booed Adam Goodes say that they are offended to be labelled "racists". Is only some people's offence valid, and others not.

These names are used, I believe, because the person using them has no real argument, otherwise they would put it across. Instead, they use a name to silence all debate, and as a way of making you seem "bad" and them "good"- your view invalid and their view valid.

Who is to say that the Team Caro side is more right, just because they throw out a name?

Also, the problem with your point is that, celebrities have been suspended, lost jobs and had sponsors pull out on them for stating their opinion. If one opinion is no more valid than another, then why can't someone who loses their job for stating an opinion sue their employer for "unfair dismissal" or why can't a sportsperson or a sporting team sue the sponsor for "breach of contract" by leaving early (I know a "morals clause" is included in contracts, but who says that the sponsor gets to determine what is and isn't a breach of morals)?
 
Demonic Ascent said:
No, but nice attempt to change the subject.

You made the allegation a fee days ago now and still can't come up with one example of shaming and slandering other than "everyone knows" :rolleyes:

You made the assertion, put up or shut up.
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LOL its not an allegation.
Its a known fact by anyone that has any kind of knowledge on the situation.

I'm sorry that I'm not taking an hour out of my overseas holiday to research it for you.

How about you just look it up or shut up and either accept my version or privately think I'm an idiot. This constant back and forth is boring and getting nowhere.
 
H2F said:
Sorry but no it's not.

You just don't understand it.
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Yeah, great rebuke. That put him back in his box.

This shows the level of intelligence in this whole debate. People saying someone is wrong, but not saying why they are wrong.
 
Quote from the book, "Animal Farm" by George Orwell.

"All men are equal, but some are more equal than others".

This has become true in society. If your race, gender or sexual orientation have some sob story about persecution, everyone is expected to bend over for them.
 
Fadge said:
So they just played on Fox Footy the discussion between Gillon, Robbo and Gerard on AFL360's 500th show. From memory this was about three weeks ago.

Amongst the questions Gillon asked:
To Gerard - What is the thing that makes you go "I'm gonna have to stab him"?
To both - Who would win a physical fight? He the went on to suggest Robbo would use the squirrel grip, whereas Gerard would have a knife and a gun, and then tip things on Robbo's head (I assume after he has placed him in a bin or similar).

Is this discussion not normalising violence?

Would the same conversation take place today given the events of the past two weeks?
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You have to ask yourself, just how many assaults and similar acts of violence could be indirectly attributed to these loose comments. I know of at least 3 guys who have borderline anger issues and are watching AFL broadcasts on a regular basis.
 
One thing Eddie has over Caro.

Eddie at least went on the MND slide, and raised money for MND. I haven't seen Caro do it.

I wonder, if someone nominated Caroline Wilson next year to slide down the MND slide, would she do it?

I mean, it is for a good cause after all, and I don't think she would have an issue with Neale Daniher.

If I were a celebrity and nominated to go down the slide, my nomination would be Caroline Wilson. No bids needed, no need for her to sink under, but I want to see if this "paragon of virtue", who judges everyone else, is charitable, or just relies on her galpal feminist mates and media mates to sing her virtues.

But you know what. I don't think she would do it. I think she would donate money, but not slide down the slide. You know why? Because everyone who went down the slide had fun with it, dressed up in costume, and there was much love and laughter. Can you see Caro ever have fun with it, crack a smile, or dress up in costume? No, she is too busy protecting her image that her ego would never allow her to "play the fool" and slide in an attempt to raise money for a good cause.

Caro, you tell us how bad Eddie is, and have your mates tell us how good you are, but Eddie was prepared to "humiliate" himself and look foolish by sliding into an ice bath, and so far, that is more than you are prepared to do.

Caro talks the talk, but here, Eddie McGuire walked the walk.
 
If I made the comment, I would have gone further.

After saying that Caro shouldn't "come back up", I would then add "It would be like Salem in the middle-ages".

Then I would add "I wonder, if Caro went into the water, she would scream "I'm melting!" "I'm melting!"

Finally, I would say that if Caro went into the water, it would make her multiply and who wants that. Then I would wonder who fed her after midnight.
 

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GTOA said:
If I made the comment, I would have gone further.

After saying that Caro shouldn't "come back up", I would then add "It would be like Salem in the middle-ages".

Then I would add "I wonder, if Caro went into the water, she would scream "I'm melting!" "I'm melting!"

Finally, I would say that if Caro went into the water, it would make her multiply and who wants that. Then I would wonder who fed her after midnight.
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No you wouldnt have
 
Demonic Ascent said:
Yeah only idiots care about the facts right? Who would've thought educating yourself about something before commenting on it would be so revolutionary!

Nice level of debate you got going there - lolololol :rolleyes:

I sincerely hope the "79" doesn't refer to your age..
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All the facts were laid out, you just refuse to acknowledge them because they don't match your agenda.. Now go get back with the flock.
 
I wonder if those in the media or AFL will jump on anyone about male violence.

Before people say that men can look after themselves, then what about "coward punches"? A family has recently mourned the death of their son, who got hit trying to pull a mate out of the fight. The coward who hit him got bail.

I don't hear the cries of the media and the AFL about things like this, and if someone says that they want to punch someone else, why can't a man take offence, since it is usually males who suffer from being "one-punched".

In fact, domestic violence is more than a man hitting a woman.In some cases, a woman will attack her male partner.

Furthermore, and I would like to hear from the gay community about this. Are there case of gay domestic violence, such as male against his male life partner, or a female lesbian against her life partner? I imagine that it must happen some of the time.

What about abuse against children, or elderly abuse, or abuse against the disabled or mentally impaired?

I am a supporter of getting rid of domestic violence. The scumbags who hit women are lowlifes, and deserve no mercy. But man against woman violence scraps the surface of a bigger issue.

Also, I would put that males are more often victims of violence across the board, in society more than females. Coward punches in the street, violence with knives and other weapons, when a guy steps in to help a girl being victimised, gay males being bashed for being gay, race violence, plus when you add deaths from military operations (which the vast majority are male).

Also, women get looked after better in society. More money goes to breast cancer than prostate cancer. More men suffer depression and suicide than women, and less is done to help them, especially since men are less likely to seek help, because society labels them as "weak". In fact, "Being a man" is frowned upon now, and men are more feminised, and can't show their masculinity, in good ways as well as bad, anymore. Men have to be able to cook, clean, tend the house. Men are supposed to please his wife, without expecting anything back. More is expected of men by society, as he has to work and be there for his wife and children.

These feminists who defend Caro are two-faced. Because, while women push female rights, when it comes down to it, women are horrible to each other as well, a lot of the time.

When two male friends fight, they might not hang out together anymore, they may have a fist-fight, but then, it gets smoothed over pretty quickly. I think sport got invented because men like to see who is "the best amongst them" so they solve their issues with one another often with contests.

But if two female friends fight, they name-call, tell everyone else what a bitch the other girl is, say how she hates her, and this can go on for days or months. If some women didn't have men to complain about, I think that they would start complaining about each other instead.

Also, they will criticise a man for looking at a supermodel in a magazine, yet females often bag supermodels and hate them for being beautiful and confident, like somehow that it their fault. All a supermodel is doing is posing, she isn't rubbing females readers' noses in it.

Women talk about equality. Well, how many women fought on the front-line in WWI, WWII, Korea, Vietnam or Iraq and Afghainstan? It is men who have often led the way. It was a man who landed on the moon, a man who led a country to ban slavery and a man who preached about civil rights, which led to a revolution in black relations. It was a man who preached on the Sermon on the Mount, and is celebrated at Easter and Christmas (unless you are Catholic, and give Mary the praise instead). A man discovered penicillin.

Many men have done great things for society. Many women have done great things in society. No gender is better than the other. So, ladies, next time you blame men for the ills of this world, look in the mirror, and realise that everyone could change themselves first. It starts with you, man or woman.
 
GTOA said:
I wonder if those in the media or AFL will jump on anyone about male violence.

Before people say that men can look after themselves, then what about "coward punches"? A family has recently mourned the death of their son, who got hit trying to pull a mate out of the fight. The coward who hit him got bail.

I don't hear the cries of the media and the AFL about things like this, and if someone says that they want to punch someone else, why can't a man take offence, since it is usually males who suffer from being "one-punched".

In fact, domestic violence is more than a man hitting a woman.In some cases, a woman will attack her male partner.

Furthermore, and I would like to hear from the gay community about this. Are there case of gay domestic violence, such as male against his male life partner, or a female lesbian against her life partner? I imagine that it must happen some of the time.

What about abuse against children, or elderly abuse, or abuse against the disabled or mentally impaired?

I am a supporter of getting rid of domestic violence. The scumbags who hit women are lowlifes, and deserve no mercy. But man against woman violence scraps the surface of a bigger issue.

Also, I would put that males are more often victims of violence across the board, in society more than females. Coward punches in the street, violence with knives and other weapons, when a guy steps in to help a girl being victimised, gay males being bashed for being gay, race violence, plus when you add deaths from military operations (which the vast majority are male).

Also, women get looked after better in society. More money goes to breast cancer than prostate cancer. More men suffer depression and suicide than women, and less is done to help them, especially since men are less likely to seek help, because society labels them as "weak". In fact, "Being a man" is frowned upon now, and men are more feminised, and can't show their masculinity, in good ways as well as bad, anymore. Men have to be able to cook, clean, tend the house. Men are supposed to please his wife, without expecting anything back. More is expected of men by society, as he has to work and be there for his wife and children.

These feminists who defend Caro are two-faced. Because, while women push female rights, when it comes down to it, women are horrible to each other as well, a lot of the time.

When two male friends fight, they might not hang out together anymore, they may have a fist-fight, but then, it gets smoothed over pretty quickly. I think sport got invented because men like to see who is "the best amongst them" so they solve their issues with one another often with contests.

But if two female friends fight, they name-call, tell everyone else what a bitch the other girl is, say how she hates her, and this can go on for days or months. If some women didn't have men to complain about, I think that they would start complaining about each other instead.

Also, they will criticise a man for looking at a supermodel in a magazine, yet females often bag supermodels and hate them for being beautiful and confident, like somehow that it their fault. All a supermodel is doing is posing, she isn't rubbing females readers' noses in it.

Women talk about equality. Well, how many women fought on the front-line in WWI, WWII, Korea, Vietnam or Iraq and Afghainstan? It is men who have often led the way. It was a man who landed on the moon, a man who led a country to ban slavery and a man who preached about civil rights, which led to a revolution in black relations. It was a man who preached on the Sermon on the Mount, and is celebrated at Easter and Christmas (unless you are Catholic, and give Mary the praise instead). A man discovered penicillin.

Many men have done great things for society. Many women have done great things in society. No gender is better than the other. So, ladies, next time you blame men for the ills of this world, look in the mirror, and realise that everyone could change themselves first. It starts with you, man or woman.
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You forgot to throw in #notallmen to that delusional straw man argument
 
Good article:

A few commenters, mostly men, are saying “it was just a joke”. Because they are presumably fathers, I want to explain this, as it makes a difference to your parenting. If you go back to my piece at the top, I am saying I don’t believe this was “just” a joke.

There was a context. He was genuinely threatened and angry at her criticism in her articles. It was on his mind.

It came out quite inappropriately at a charity dunking. It was a slip up, sure, but it showed his underlying anger, and his inability to deal with it in an adult way.

And it showed him appealing for emotional support to his mates. It was anger and threat leaking out through humour.

And as the Age pointed out today, she wasn’t there, so it can’t be banter. Banter is when people are sharing in put downs for fun, by mutual agreement. Humour is used to mask violence every single day. Rapists and abusers often say “get over it”.

It was window into the man’s heart. And that is a huge thing.
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http://www.businessinsider.com.au/h...lions-of-kids-says-about-eddie-mcguire-2016-6
 
Hatred and disrespect drives people to say things that are very poor

His hatred of swans ...cola and academies ...leads to Adam Goodes comments

His dislike of Fairfax and Caroline Wilson leads to his comments

If you carry life grudges towards others they eventually come back to bight you on the rear end

It's like this ...hate = anger ...leads to grudge which leads to saying stupid stuff
 
This part nailed it

In case you are in any doubt, I think he should resign too.

The pattern is important to understand if we are to end violence against women.
Caroline Wilson is a serious journalist, she made valid and important – but always reasoned – criticisms of Eddie McGuire’s performance as a manager of Collingwood. That’s her job.
A grown up would have two options – to address her arguments and make a case why she was wrong. Or to concede that she was right.
But instead of engaging as an equal and an adult, Mr McGuire seethed, and in a setting where he felt safe, among mates, and in the hearing of several million people, they joked about – essentially – killing her.
When shamed men can’t deal with the anxiety they feel, they choose to resolve it by imagined, or real, violence, and rally support from other men to make that okay.
This also happened with Alan Jones and our first woman PM Julia Gillard, and the infamous “chaff bag” threats. And as we see in the daily news – from Yorkshire to Orlando, there’s always some nutter willing to carry it out.
Token apology that is forced by circumstance isn’t the same as real change. You have to say – this is a character flaw.
Even if the victim wasn’t a woman, it’s still wrong.
Adults deal with conflict or disagreement with words, respectfully, and safely. Only mature adults should be in positions with this much power.
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http://www.businessinsider.com.au/h...lions-of-kids-says-about-eddie-mcguire-2016-6
 
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