News Eddie McGuire steps down as Collingwood President

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jackcass

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You mean apart from extreme problem gambling, a drug abuse problem and self confessed severe depression after his dad passed?
Really? He gambled so it's a problem? Do you know how much he bet and with whom? Drugs? Where's the evidence of drugs? Depression was well known. In fact, was publicly known and he had it in 2018, your point?

PS: Still awaiting evidence of the $150M grants........... "crickets"
 

Kappa

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Really? He gambled so it's a problem? Do you know how much he bet and with whom? Drugs? Where's the evidence of drugs? Depression was well known. In fact, was publicly known and he had it in 2018, your point?
I would say going into debts of hundreds of thousands due to gambling would count as a problem, the club hired a private investigator to look into his issues. His addiction to prescription drugs was also well known. I think the point is fairly self-explanatory.
 

jackcass

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I would say going into debts of hundreds of thousands due to gambling would count as a problem, the club hired a private investigator to look into his issues. His addiction to prescription drugs was also well known. I think the point is fairly self-explanatory.
Evidence?

Where is this mention of the club hiring a PI? Where is this evidence of huge debt? Where has it been said he was addicted to prescription meds in 2018 and early 2019? Well known by whom?
 

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Kappa

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Evidence?

Where is this mention of the club hiring a PI? Where is this evidence of huge debt? Where has it been said he was addicted to prescription meds in 2018 and early 2019? Well known by whom?
Well there were strong strong rumours at the time, and afterwards it was confirmed by Beams himself that all those things were happening... So if randoms on Bigfooty knew, i would hope the club knew...

And here's more evidence if you want about the private investigator, I think everyone knows about it except for you...

 

jackcass

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Well there were strong strong rumours at the time, and afterwards it was confirmed by Beams himself that all those things were happening... So if randoms on Bigfooty knew, i would hope the club knew...

And here's more evidence if you want about the private investigator, I think everyone knows about it except for you...

Nice, hide your evidence behind a paywall.
 

gouki88

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Nice, hide your evidence behind a paywall.
You can get around it with some browser extensions that sneak around paywalls, but here's the text:

On September 1, 2018 Dayne Beams stood in front of the Brisbane faithful and declared his love for the club and his future within it.
That connection was the “driving factor” in him wanting to honour his contract, with Beams’ final message this: “I love you boys”.

But in the hours after that best-and-fairest second-placing the Lions reconciled themselves to his eventual departure.

Beams was railing against finishing behind Dayne Zorko, adamant he was the worthy winner during a long and emotional late-night discussion with club powerbrokers.

It would take the better part of two months for Beams to eventually be traded to Collingwood, yet by the end of that night the Lions knew they would trade him if the right deal was presented.

As one Lions insider said on Tuesday, a captain who should be the most low-maintenance figure at a football club had instead become its most high maintenance.

Brisbane had reconciled themselves with trading Beams as long as Collingwood came up with a suitable deal.

Beams is now a Collingwood player in name only as his management and the club look towards a financial settlement that could still be months in the making. But to present this is a case of Collingwood bungling a $2 million deal with reckless disregard for Beams’ issues is entirely unfair too.

Collingwood were entirely aware that Beams’ mental health problems were multifaceted and borne out of more than grief for his father’s passing.

The club that hired a private investigator and spoke to chief commissioner Christine Nixon about the risk profile of Ben Cousins shared the view of Brisbane’s mental health experts.

That like many players in football Beams would need help and guidance to deal with mental health but could be effectively managed for the remainder of his career.

But Beams was the last deal done in trade week — half an hour to deadline — and if the Lions weren’t particularly desperate to retain Beams (having just traded for Lachie Neale) they would have absolutely done so without a quality trade.

What has become apparent is that the $2 million deal handed to Beams might be as problematic from a long-term perspective than the two first-round picks handed away for Beams.

If Collingwood cannot get salary cap relief from the AFL for Beams’ extraordinary circumstances — and why wouldn’t they at least ask — they will be on the hook for whatever they eventually settle with Beams for.

Brodie Grundy’s seven-year deal actually gives the Pies flexibility to defer some of his deal to later years.

But the Pies will only learn the fallout from Beams’ salary if Tom Phillips is tipped out or Jordan De Goey accepts a mega-deal that the Pies could have matched with that Beams cap space.

The Pies know more than anyone premierships are won and lost on fine margins, privately aware they wouldn’t have done the deal if they hadn’t been so close against West Coast.

Only time will tell whether those selections and cap space cost them the players that might have been the difference when the next opportunity comes around.

Herald Sun
 

sr36

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On another note I’m not a fan of the support I’ve read for McGuire across a couple of threads in terms of him not being a racist. He presided over an environment that allowed systemic racism to propagate, he is a casual racist given his King Kong “gaffe” and not meaning it doesn’t preclude him from being one. That said it shouldn’t define him or his presidency because he needed to go for this type of meddling in football matters as much as his racism.
A lot comes down to how you define racist and racism. Not having appropriate policies and procedures in place as the report pointed out is a very harsh definer. As is a bad joke that didn't actually call Goodes King King. Trying to include everything that could possibly be harmful into the definition is a short sited move by activists. It may in the short term really highlight issues that need improvement by associating them with a powerful word, but in the long run it'll strip the power from that word. As we'll gradually come to realise that not everything described as racist is abhorrent.
 
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jackcass

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You can spend 5 seconds searching for it in google and find how wrong you are genius.

Is that enough evidence for you? Or are you still going to live in your own reality?
Eidted: That was in relation to Ben Cousins, not Beams.

The club that hired a private investigator and spoke to chief commissioner Christine Nixon about the risk profile of Ben Cousins shared the view of Brisbane’s mental health experts.

That like many players in football Beams would need help and guidance to deal with mental health but could be effectively managed for the remainder of his career.


And this is the salient point:

The Pies know more than anyone premierships are won and lost on fine margins, privately aware they wouldn’t have done the deal if they hadn’t been so close against West Coast.
 
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jackcass

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A lot comes down to how you define racist and racism. Not having appropriate policies and procedures in place as the report pointed out is a very harsh definer. As is a bad joke that didn't actually call Goodes King King. Trying to include everything that could possibly be harmful into the definition is a short sited move by activists. It may in the short term really highlight issues that need improvement by associating them with a powerful word, but in the long run it'll strip the power from that word. As we'll gradually come to realise that not everything described as racist is abhorrent.
And yes, Ed presided over the club for a significant period covered by the review but what is clear is that these issues preceded Ed. What isn't clear is what happened under his tenure. Where are we now in comparison to when he assumed the presidency?
 

Kappa

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Okay, so they hired a PI and spoke to Nixon, so what. Where does it mention drugs and gambling?

And this is the salient point:

The Pies know more than anyone premierships are won and lost on fine margins, privately aware they wouldn’t have done the deal if they hadn’t been so close against West Coast.
As I already explained, there were huge rumours going around at the time and Dayne publicly admitted recently that during those times he was self destructing on a cocktail of problem gambling and drug addiction... So... the club probably knew... you understand?
 

sr36

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As I already explained, there were huge rumours going around at the time and Dayne publicly admitted recently that during those times he was self destructing on a cocktail of problem gambling and drug addiction... So... the club probably knew... you understand?
Isn't the rumour regarding drugs that it occurred with us when overcing his shoulder surgery?
 

jackcass

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As I already explained, there were huge rumours going around at the time and Dayne publicly admitted recently that during those times he was self destructing on a cocktail of problem gambling and drug addiction... So... the club probably knew... you understand?
Rumour and innuendo. So lets treat it as fact then. The drug issues were rumoured post his arrival at the Pies and his injury issues, not during the time being discussed. And a guy on $400-500k a year owing money for gambling isn't really an issue now is it. So it's just your hyperbole, and my statement was correct. Thanks. I'll leave it there.

PS: Still waiting for the info on these $150M grants and how they compare with the grants we've received.
 

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Kappa

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Rumour and innuendo. So lets treat it as fact then. The drug issues were rumoured post his arrival at the Pies and his injury issues, not during the time being discussed. And a guy on $400-500k a year owing money for gambling isn't really an issue now is it. So it's just your hyperbole, and my statement was correct. Thanks. I'll leave it there.

PS: Still waiting for the info on these $150M grants and how they compare with the grants we've received.
You think Beams going into hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of debt isn't really an issue? Thanks for showing how clueless you are, it was a red flag that his mental health was in a very poor state, and we ignored it.
 

jackcass

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You think Beams going into hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of debt isn't really an issue? Thanks for showing how clueless you are, it was a red flag that his mental health was in a very poor state, and we ignored it.
How he chooses to spend/waste his money is his concern. If it's gambling then so be it. It wasn't affecting his play in 2018 and the 1st 11 rounds of 2019. Still waiting for you to prove otherwise.
 

Robroy22

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Just a thought but if "Scotty from Marketing" or Peter "The undertaker" Dutton was Eddie McGuire....would they have been subjected to the same media pile on that Ed has? Seems to me that they're making far more problems for the country than Ed ever has....
 

Kappa

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How he chooses to spend/waste his money is his concern. If it's gambling then so be it. It wasn't affecting his play in 2018 and the 1st 11 rounds of 2019. Still waiting for you to prove otherwise.
If you don't think the stress of losing your family's life savings, plus hundreds of thousands of debts to shady characters and being heavily addicted to drugs won't effect someone's football career then that just says something about your level of extreme ignorance.
 

DinoSoar

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Okay, so they hired a PI and spoke to Nixon, so what. Where does it mention drugs and gambling?

And this is the salient point:

The Pies know more than anyone premierships are won and lost on fine margins, privately aware they wouldn’t have done the deal if they hadn’t been so close against West Coast.
In addition (and another salient point), the reference to hiring a private investigator in the story was about Ben Cousins not Beams. The fact that Christine Nixon was mentioned in the same sentence should have also been a clue as to the timeframe - she left the position of Chief Comm of VicPol early 2009.
 

AndrewShawble

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How he chooses to spend/waste his money is his concern. If it's gambling then so be it. It wasn't affecting his play in 2018 and the 1st 11 rounds of 2019. Still waiting for you to prove otherwise.
This is just genuinely bizarre to read

Is your understanding that you just wake up one day and be an addict, and at that point life is unmanageable?

If your point is that he played good football in 2018 and 11 games of 2019, then yes, you are correct.

Others are making the point that we shouldn’t have recruited someone with these issues.
 

Scodog10

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Just a thought but if "Scotty from Marketing" or Peter "The undertaker" Dutton was Eddie McGuire....would they have been subjected to the same media pile on that Ed has? Seems to me that they're making far more problems for the country than Ed ever has....
You’d like to think so, but I think it’s more nuanced. McGuire had a target on his back with football journos for a long time the problem he had is that racism transcends sport so it meant he was free game to any and all journalists. McGuire is also only backed by 1/18th of the football community and his popularity had waned with us too. Federal liberal gets about 40% of the popular vote at an election? With a huge amount of those voters the type of people that don’t care about racist comments ( boomers).

I thin people like Dutton and Morrison are more likely to lead to the downfall of the Liberal party than anything else because millennials are much more progressive. As the generations transition the greens will grow their popular vote at the expense of the liberals, IMO.
 

jackcass

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If you don't think the stress of losing your family's life savings, plus hundreds of thousands of debts to shady characters and being heavily addicted to drugs won't effect someone's football career then that just says something about your level of extreme ignorance.
That's all you projecting how you'd feel in your personal circumstances. You have no idea how Beams felt. But just keep going with the derogatory crap about me. It seems like it's all you've got.
 

Billys Back

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It hadn't affected his ability to perform until we got him back. He was a star. The claims that we shouldn't have recruited him because he had mental health issues are about as definitive in terms of non-inclusiveness as it gets. It didn't work out, but I hope that we aren't going to automatically cross off anyone with mental health issues in the future.
My response is going to be unpopular, however, I would be very hesitant and as a minimum make it a short term contract.
 

jackcass

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This is just genuinely bizarre to read

Is your understanding that you just wake up one day and be an addict, and at that point life is unmanageable?
Not sure where I've ever suggested any of that. Happy for you to show me where I did. Just for a heads up, I have worked in the Drug & Alcohol sector.

If your point is that he played good football in 2018 and 11 games of 2019, then yes, you are correct.
It's been my only point, but people keep wanting to take it on irrelevant tangents.

Others are making the point that we shouldn’t have recruited someone with these issues.
And as I have pointed out repeatedly, I didn't want him, but the club knew what they were buying into. By Kappa's own evidence they'd hired a PI and consulted with Christine Nixon (I assume among others) as to the risks. It was a decision based purely on footy and his ability that got him to the club, and you can't question the decision based on his 2018 performances and those of the 1st 11 rounds of 2019. If he hadn't sustained injury who knows how it might have turned out.

Edit: Retract the bolded. Even Kappa's evidence can't be relied upon.
 
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jackcass

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In addition (and another salient point), the reference to hiring a private investigator in the story was about Ben Cousins not Beams. The fact that Christine Nixon was mentioned in the same sentence should have also been a clue as to the timeframe - she left the position of Chief Comm of VicPol early 2009.
Well picked up, not sure why I glossed over it.
 

sr36

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My response is going to be unpopular, however, I would be very hesitant and as a minimum make it a short term contract.
Like the honesty. And it's certainly not a positive, but even from a purely win at all costs football perspective, I disagree, supposedly Buddy and Dusty have had their mental health issues. It's jsut one factor to weigh up. Not sure the reason why, but every club passed on Liam Ryan when he first slayed it in the WAAFL and then after another year of standing on heads and kicking goals at will, he still didn't go early. There was some factor that clubs were baulking at and it is justifiable to view it as a greater risk - but often it is worth taking the risk on a flawed genius.
 
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