News Eddie McGuire steps down as Collingwood President

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On another note I’m not a fan of the support I’ve read for McGuire across a couple of threads in terms of him not being a racist. He presided over an environment that allowed systemic racism to propagate, he is a casual racist given his King Kong “gaffe” and not meaning it doesn’t preclude him from being one. That said it shouldn’t define him or his presidency because he needed to go for this type of meddling in football matters as much as his racism.
A lot comes down to how you define racist and racism. Not having appropriate policies and procedures in place as the report pointed out is a very harsh definer. As is a bad joke that didn't actually call Goodes King King. Trying to include everything that could possibly be harmful into the definition is a short sited move by activists. It may in the short term really highlight issues that need improvement by associating them with a powerful word, but in the long run it'll strip the power from that word. As we'll gradually come to realise that not everything described as racist is abhorrent.
 
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jackcass

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You can spend 5 seconds searching for it in google and find how wrong you are genius.

Is that enough evidence for you? Or are you still going to live in your own reality?

Eidted: That was in relation to Ben Cousins, not Beams.

The club that hired a private investigator and spoke to chief commissioner Christine Nixon about the risk profile of Ben Cousins shared the view of Brisbane’s mental health experts.

That like many players in football Beams would need help and guidance to deal with mental health but could be effectively managed for the remainder of his career.


And this is the salient point:

The Pies know more than anyone premierships are won and lost on fine margins, privately aware they wouldn’t have done the deal if they hadn’t been so close against West Coast.
 
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jackcass

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A lot comes down to how you define racist and racism. Not having appropriate policies and procedures in place as the report pointed out is a very harsh definer. As is a bad joke that didn't actually call Goodes King King. Trying to include everything that could possibly be harmful into the definition is a short sited move by activists. It may in the short term really highlight issues that need improvement by associating them with a powerful word, but in the long run it'll strip the power from that word. As we'll gradually come to realise that not everything described as racist is abhorrent.

And yes, Ed presided over the club for a significant period covered by the review but what is clear is that these issues preceded Ed. What isn't clear is what happened under his tenure. Where are we now in comparison to when he assumed the presidency?
 

Kappa

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Okay, so they hired a PI and spoke to Nixon, so what. Where does it mention drugs and gambling?

And this is the salient point:

The Pies know more than anyone premierships are won and lost on fine margins, privately aware they wouldn’t have done the deal if they hadn’t been so close against West Coast.

As I already explained, there were huge rumours going around at the time and Dayne publicly admitted recently that during those times he was self destructing on a cocktail of problem gambling and drug addiction... So... the club probably knew... you understand?
 
As I already explained, there were huge rumours going around at the time and Dayne publicly admitted recently that during those times he was self destructing on a cocktail of problem gambling and drug addiction... So... the club probably knew... you understand?
Isn't the rumour regarding drugs that it occurred with us when overcing his shoulder surgery?
 

jackcass

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As I already explained, there were huge rumours going around at the time and Dayne publicly admitted recently that during those times he was self destructing on a cocktail of problem gambling and drug addiction... So... the club probably knew... you understand?

Rumour and innuendo. So lets treat it as fact then. The drug issues were rumoured post his arrival at the Pies and his injury issues, not during the time being discussed. And a guy on $400-500k a year owing money for gambling isn't really an issue now is it. So it's just your hyperbole, and my statement was correct. Thanks. I'll leave it there.

PS: Still waiting for the info on these $150M grants and how they compare with the grants we've received.
 

Kappa

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Rumour and innuendo. So lets treat it as fact then. The drug issues were rumoured post his arrival at the Pies and his injury issues, not during the time being discussed. And a guy on $400-500k a year owing money for gambling isn't really an issue now is it. So it's just your hyperbole, and my statement was correct. Thanks. I'll leave it there.

PS: Still waiting for the info on these $150M grants and how they compare with the grants we've received.

You think Beams going into hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of debt isn't really an issue? Thanks for showing how clueless you are, it was a red flag that his mental health was in a very poor state, and we ignored it.
 

jackcass

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You think Beams going into hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of debt isn't really an issue? Thanks for showing how clueless you are, it was a red flag that his mental health was in a very poor state, and we ignored it.

How he chooses to spend/waste his money is his concern. If it's gambling then so be it. It wasn't affecting his play in 2018 and the 1st 11 rounds of 2019. Still waiting for you to prove otherwise.
 

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Just a thought but if "Scotty from Marketing" or Peter "The undertaker" Dutton was Eddie McGuire....would they have been subjected to the same media pile on that Ed has? Seems to me that they're making far more problems for the country than Ed ever has....
 

Kappa

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How he chooses to spend/waste his money is his concern. If it's gambling then so be it. It wasn't affecting his play in 2018 and the 1st 11 rounds of 2019. Still waiting for you to prove otherwise.

If you don't think the stress of losing your family's life savings, plus hundreds of thousands of debts to shady characters and being heavily addicted to drugs won't effect someone's football career then that just says something about your level of extreme ignorance.
 
Okay, so they hired a PI and spoke to Nixon, so what. Where does it mention drugs and gambling?

And this is the salient point:

The Pies know more than anyone premierships are won and lost on fine margins, privately aware they wouldn’t have done the deal if they hadn’t been so close against West Coast.

In addition (and another salient point), the reference to hiring a private investigator in the story was about Ben Cousins not Beams. The fact that Christine Nixon was mentioned in the same sentence should have also been a clue as to the timeframe - she left the position of Chief Comm of VicPol early 2009.
 

AndrewShawble

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How he chooses to spend/waste his money is his concern. If it's gambling then so be it. It wasn't affecting his play in 2018 and the 1st 11 rounds of 2019. Still waiting for you to prove otherwise.

This is just genuinely bizarre to read

Is your understanding that you just wake up one day and be an addict, and at that point life is unmanageable?

If your point is that he played good football in 2018 and 11 games of 2019, then yes, you are correct.

Others are making the point that we shouldn’t have recruited someone with these issues.
 
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Just a thought but if "Scotty from Marketing" or Peter "The undertaker" Dutton was Eddie McGuire....would they have been subjected to the same media pile on that Ed has? Seems to me that they're making far more problems for the country than Ed ever has....

You’d like to think so, but I think it’s more nuanced. McGuire had a target on his back with football journos for a long time the problem he had is that racism transcends sport so it meant he was free game to any and all journalists. McGuire is also only backed by 1/18th of the football community and his popularity had waned with us too. Federal liberal gets about 40% of the popular vote at an election? With a huge amount of those voters the type of people that don’t care about racist comments ( boomers).

I thin people like Dutton and Morrison are more likely to lead to the downfall of the Liberal party than anything else because millennials are much more progressive. As the generations transition the greens will grow their popular vote at the expense of the liberals, IMO.
 

jackcass

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If you don't think the stress of losing your family's life savings, plus hundreds of thousands of debts to shady characters and being heavily addicted to drugs won't effect someone's football career then that just says something about your level of extreme ignorance.

That's all you projecting how you'd feel in your personal circumstances. You have no idea how Beams felt. But just keep going with the derogatory crap about me. It seems like it's all you've got.
 

Billys Back

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It hadn't affected his ability to perform until we got him back. He was a star. The claims that we shouldn't have recruited him because he had mental health issues are about as definitive in terms of non-inclusiveness as it gets. It didn't work out, but I hope that we aren't going to automatically cross off anyone with mental health issues in the future.
My response is going to be unpopular, however, I would be very hesitant and as a minimum make it a short term contract.
 

jackcass

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This is just genuinely bizarre to read

Is your understanding that you just wake up one day and be an addict, and at that point life is unmanageable?

Not sure where I've ever suggested any of that. Happy for you to show me where I did. Just for a heads up, I have worked in the Drug & Alcohol sector.

If your point is that he played good football in 2018 and 11 games of 2019, then yes, you are correct.

It's been my only point, but people keep wanting to take it on irrelevant tangents.

Others are making the point that we shouldn’t have recruited someone with these issues.

And as I have pointed out repeatedly, I didn't want him, but the club knew what they were buying into. By Kappa's own evidence they'd hired a PI and consulted with Christine Nixon (I assume among others) as to the risks. It was a decision based purely on footy and his ability that got him to the club, and you can't question the decision based on his 2018 performances and those of the 1st 11 rounds of 2019. If he hadn't sustained injury who knows how it might have turned out.

Edit: Retract the bolded. Even Kappa's evidence can't be relied upon.
 
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jackcass

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In addition (and another salient point), the reference to hiring a private investigator in the story was about Ben Cousins not Beams. The fact that Christine Nixon was mentioned in the same sentence should have also been a clue as to the timeframe - she left the position of Chief Comm of VicPol early 2009.

Well picked up, not sure why I glossed over it.
 
My response is going to be unpopular, however, I would be very hesitant and as a minimum make it a short term contract.
Like the honesty. And it's certainly not a positive, but even from a purely win at all costs football perspective, I disagree, supposedly Buddy and Dusty have had their mental health issues. It's jsut one factor to weigh up. Not sure the reason why, but every club passed on Liam Ryan when he first slayed it in the WAAFL and then after another year of standing on heads and kicking goals at will, he still didn't go early. There was some factor that clubs were baulking at and it is justifiable to view it as a greater risk - but often it is worth taking the risk on a flawed genius.
 
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Federal liberal gets about 40% of the popular vote at an election? With a huge amount of those voters the type of people that don’t care about racist comments ( boomers).

Wow. Quite a generalisation and pretty far off the mark. Are there racists amongst boomers ? More so than millennials ? I would say yes to both but to say boomers are racists is a step too far. My view is age lends itself to conservatism and a loss of ideals. The boomers had grandiose ideals and not doubt have relaxed the strength of those views and that will likely happen with the millennials over time. But we ain’t all racists.
 

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We are all racists.
Have you ever been cut off in traffic by an Asian driver and called F.....n Asian drivers?
Did you have friends of European background and call him a Stupid WOG?
Don’t lie to just fit in with the WOKE crowd.
 

Billys Back

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Like the honesty. And it's certainly not a positive, but even from a purely win at all costs football perspective, I disagree, supposedly Buddy and Dusty have had their mental health issues. It's jsut one factor to weigh up. Not sure the reason why, but every club passed on Liam Ryan when he first slayed it in the WAAFL and then after another year of standing on heads and kicking goals at will, he still didn't go early. There was some factor that clubs were baulking at and it is justifiable to view it as a greater risk - but often it is worth taking the risk on a flawed genius.

i’m sure you’re right and there are probably many others who have performed well and we aren’t aware of their challenges.
 

Billys Back

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We are all racists.
Have you ever been cut off in traffic by an Asian driver and called F.....n Asian drivers?
Did you have friends of European background and call him a Stupid WOG?
Don’t lie to just fit in with the WOKE crowd.

wow. I think you’re serious, aren’t you?
 

jackcass

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i’m sure you’re right and there are probably many others who have performed well and we aren’t aware of their challenges.

Wayne Schwass never said anything until his playing days were over. No doubt there’d be others.
 

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You’d like to think so, but I think it’s more nuanced. McGuire had a target on his back with football journos for a long time the problem he had is that racism transcends sport so it meant he was free game to any and all journalists. McGuire is also only backed by 1/18th of the football community and his popularity had waned with us too. Federal liberal gets about 40% of the popular vote at an election? With a huge amount of those voters the type of people that don’t care about racist comments ( boomers).

I thin people like Dutton and Morrison are more likely to lead to the downfall of the Liberal party than anything else because millennials are much more progressive. As the generations transition the greens will grow their popular vote at the expense of the liberals, IMO.


One can only hope you're correct (and I'm a boomer too)
 
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