EDFL Premier Div 2020

[Turbos mail]

Torp I think it will be a club by club decision about how they treat junior registration fees paid for 2020.

I think for a lot of clubs they didn’t collect large sums of junior registrations because they just don’t collect them as early as other clubs and there is a big difference in the amounts different clubs charge.

I seen the East Keilor Facebook junior season cancellation post and I think they did it in a first class way which was offer refunds immediately for those who request it and or an offer to keep paid fees as 2021 registration.

I think that’s all we could ask of any club?

In fairness to Abers, Keilor, Marby etc.. they may well do that when and if the junior season gets called off and if they do then I reckon that’s fair.

The focus on Abers in particular is there was a “rumoured” email communication people have claimed to have seen from Larrkin to a few presidents and the EDFL and Larrkin was rumoured to have cited that Abers would have solvency issues if the season didn’t go ahead.

For clubs who have collected junior rego fees but haven’t spent any of it then not playing a 2020 season at all shouldn’t create any meaningful costs at all and in practice that money can just sit there and wait for 2021 to roll around NOT create solvency issues.

For years we always get rumours of players not getting paid their last batch of matchies this year there were strong rumours that Greenvale players were not getting paid. So the theory goes those clubs collect junior regos for the next year and use some of it to close off the final payments for the year before and deal with any big name incoming recruits upfront sign on eg guys like Meese.

So as long as years roll on it never causes a problem it just becomes their working model but in this once in a 100 year event for clubs that operate their cashflow that way it could cause a cashflow hole if a large enough slab of junior regos need to be refunded.

Truth is I reckon they would be fine either way there are some deep pockets floating around those clubs but they would prefer not to have to fund any cashflow shortfall if they didn’t have to.

But if talk on here about Greenvale still owe senior players money. Is this confirmed as they are a pretty well run club with excellent facilities and multiple adjoining grounds. Plenty of 1 pointers in season 2019 without the big recruits. Dempsey probably there biggest name and he has missed a bit of footy.
Sure with that set up there rooms are packed every Thursday, Friday and Saturday nights. Or is the social club outsourced therefore drinks and meals are more expensive??

 

[Cheapseat]

But if talk on here about Greenvale still owe senior players money. Is this confirmed as they are a pretty well run club with excellent facilities and multiple adjoining grounds. Plenty of 1 pointers in season 2019 without the big recruits. Dempsey probably there biggest name and he has missed a bit of footy.
Sure with that set up there rooms are packed every Thursday, Friday and Saturday nights. Or is the social club outsourced therefore drinks and meals are more expensive??

Hi there Turbo correct I think everyone rates Bruce Kent’s and Greenvales admin and financial strength but those rumours were floating around and persisting well past the end of the 2019 season.

Players are so well connected these days especially the elite ones who often played footy together in the old TAC, VFL and AFL systems and word gets around so quick.

I’m sure Greenvale have tidied that up too good a club to let things get too messy.

Look how quickly the Doutta Stars request not to pay players the last couple of games to avoid salary cap fiasco blew up a few years back.

 

[Cheapseat]

VFL clubs have worked for weeks to get a season going, but the recent surge in coronavirus cases has one club weighing up whether to take part in the shortened season.

 

[Cheapseat]

All Victorian senior 2020 local footy leagues are done now. It should never have taken so long EFL and NFL’s assertiveness has been much appreciated by a lot of their member clubs.

 

[Wearmouth]

Now with child to child transmission identified. There surely is no reason to play out a compromised junior season. Let’s not kill off summer sports with a selfish stance to play on just so registration fees can be kept.

The positives to come out of all of this are:

Exposing the imbalance that exists within the workings of the EDFL for the haves and have nots.

Those who build their houses with large holes in their foundations will find they get flooded when a hundred year storm hits.

Greater transparency.


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[mores]

View attachment 904969
All Victorian senior 2020 local footy leagues are done now. It should never have taken so long EFL and NFL’s assertiveness has been much appreciated by a lot of their member clubs.

Thanks for the entertainment over the last few months. I assume now we will here from you less.

 

[torpfrom50]

View attachment 904969
All Victorian senior 2020 local footy leagues are done now. It should never have taken so long EFL and NFL’s assertiveness has been much appreciated by a lot of their member clubs.

So your objective is achieved Cheap

 

[Cheapseat]

Thanks for the entertainment over the last few months. I assume now we will here from you less.

Mores I can't tell you how happy it makes me to get those words of encouragement from you, I really value your opinion and your insightful one sentence posts they have been a real inspiration to me and I will do my best to be 'hear' for you Mores.

I love your work.

 

[Cheapseat]

So your objective is achieved Cheap

Come on Torp it wasn't my objective the vast majority of local footy clubs, volunteers and doers at the coalface were not wanting a 2020 shortened senior season for all the reasons the 50 or so public statements from leagues and clubs that pulled out stated, my views were in line with the overwhelming majority.

There was nothing left of field in my position at all.

 

[Wearmouth]

Thanks for the entertainment over the last few months. I assume now we will here from you less.

Less is Mores........


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[Cheapseat]

Less is Mores........


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[Turbos mail]

Cheap seat, like your work. It was inevitable that all footy was going be cancelled ages ago. We were called negative people amongst other things. It’s a shame that people had to criticise us as there is people out there committing suicide, losing jobs, losing houses etc and other things and footy is less relevant when put into perspective. Yes we all miss our footy on a Saturday but more important things in life. But I guess there are a lot of single minded people out there in this world.
See you all in 2021 forum!!

 

[Grimmett]

So Ian Kite will remain as CEO after doing a stellar job as interim?

 

[Orbit]

Whats next?

Salary Cap reduced to $100k for the next 3 years for metropolitan football.

Cheap seat, like your work. It was inevitable that all footy was going be cancelled ages ago. We were called negative people amongst other things. It’s a shame that people had to criticise us as there is people out there committing suicide, losing jobs, losing houses etc and other things and footy is less relevant when put into perspective. Yes we all miss our footy on a Saturday but more important things in life. But I guess there are a lot of single minded people out there in this world.
See you all in 2021 forum!!

Turbo, i think there is still plenty to discuss before 2021 comes around.
For example
Salary Cap..Premier 100k...Div 1...80k...Div 2...70k for the next 3 years in metropolitan football. There is no doubt i would believe that everyone agrees the $$$$ should come down however 1) can the clubs be trusted to adhere to the cap? 2) can the cap be policed 3) what penalties would act as a deterrent? 4) should the coach be included in the cap?
On a side note, what will the large junior clubs do with a spare 150k to 200k?

 

[Cheapseat]

Cheap seat, like your work. It was inevitable that all footy was going be cancelled ages ago. We were called negative people amongst other things. It’s a shame that people had to criticise us as there is people out there committing suicide, losing jobs, losing houses etc and other things and footy is less relevant when put into perspective. Yes we all miss our footy on a Saturday but more important things in life. But I guess there are a lot of single minded people out there in this world.
See you all in 2021 forum!!

So true Turbo lots of broader society level issues had to take precedent in these times.

I agree it surprised me how the cancel 2020 camp was made out to be the bad guys it was a weird dynamic, somehow we were extremists or against local footy, when in fact we were with the majority of local footy people.

Maybe it was my Henny Penny posting personality that turned them against the cancel camp, who needs enemies when you have friends like me Turbo....

 

[Uptherox]

Limit numbers of junior teams per club? That way the new comers go to the smaller clubs and help build numbers that way?

Whats next?

Salary Cap reduced to $100k for the next 3 years for metropolitan football.

Turbo, i think there is still plenty to discuss before 2021 comes around.
For example
Salary Cap..Premier 100k...Div 1...80k...Div 2...70k for the next 3 years in metropolitan football. There is no doubt i would believe that everyone agrees the $$$$ should come down however 1) can the clubs be trusted to adhere to the cap? 2) can the cap be policed 3) what penalties would act as a deterrent? 4) should the coach be included in the cap?
On a side note, what will the large junior clubs do with a spare 150k to 200k?

On SM-G960F using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Cheapseat]

Whats next?

Salary Cap reduced to $100k for the next 3 years for metropolitan football.

Turbo, i think there is still plenty to discuss before 2021 comes around.
For example
Salary Cap..Premier 100k...Div 1...80k...Div 2...70k for the next 3 years in metropolitan football. There is no doubt i would believe that everyone agrees the $$$$ should come down however 1) can the clubs be trusted to adhere to the cap? 2) can the cap be policed 3) what penalties would act as a deterrent? 4) should the coach be included in the cap?
On a side note, what will the large junior clubs do with a spare 150k to 200k?

1) can the clubs be trusted to adhere to the cap?
Sadly no Orbit we all know that it is going to be very unlikely that clubs are going to be able to convince their top-end talent to play for an average of $225 per game to fit into the $100K cap. We all know of players over the years who were and are on $1k (heaps of blokes), $1,500 (top 5 % or 10 blokes in premier) $2,000 (2-3 blokes) very hard to see those guys accepting 5 to 10 times less a game. Some may bail on local footy and move on in their life, some may cop it and a lot will make their way to clubs willing to work around it.

2) can the cap be policed
NO/YES it is very difficult if the cash never goes into the club's bank account and gets given to a player in cash it's nearly impossible end of story, BUT your side note of what will they do with the extra $150 to $200K will be the clue for the AFL auditors to at least make it difficult because they can just cross-reference the number of registered juniors with the amount publically charged for regos etc.. and with some basic accounting forensics ask to see the leftover cash and it will be very hard for a club to manipulate that, they might try and record less cash takings for bar and functions but the junior regos alone in the big clubs who have lots of kids and charge a lot will still mathematically mean they should be having profits accruing in their bank accounts and if not they will need to show where the money went.

3) what penalties would act as a deterrent?
The main ones would be formal office holders of footy clubs to be legally exposed e.g someone like Bruce Kent or Larkin (not an officeholder now) wouldn't be comfortable being exposed to the legal risk and the business career implications that it would cause. Don't know what the ins and outs of the legals are on that and whether anything would be enforceable?


4) should the coach be included in the cap?
In my view no, Keilor, Abers, Greenvale, Strathmore deserve to have some advantage for being well run clubs so they should be able to spend their money on something that gives their members the joy of winning more, Keilor get an advantage by having Mick McGuane, Greenvale had an elite ex AFL player in Chapman and they deserve that. But my call out is the EDFL will need points handicaps to help deal with 60% of all kids in the elite systems TAC, VFL and AFL coming from 2 EDFL clubs Abers & Keilor that will rip the comp apart in coming years. e.g 5 ex elites playing mean 5 points to Abers and 25 points to a club recruiting similar talent, in the end, you won't be able to field a side under the points cap to win like for like cattle against those two clubs.

 

[Cheapseat]

Limit numbers of junior teams per club? That way the new comers go to the smaller clubs and help build numbers that way?

On SM-G960F using BigFooty.com mobile app

That is a great idea and would over 5-7 years even out the comp it is that or a points handicap also the elite clubs with good programs would still get the best kids wanting to go there so they wouldn't lose all their earned advantage.

 

[Turbos mail]

Limit numbers of junior teams per club? That way the new comers go to the smaller clubs and help build numbers that way?

On SM-G960F using BigFooty.com mobile app

I understand your point and at 1 time I did support this but difficult to force a kid or parent to go to a particular club. I don’t like the corruption that goes on with the better kids at lower clubs getting calls from bigger clubs. I understand it if they go on there own accord but calling kids is not good.

 

[Turbos mail]

Whats next?

Salary Cap reduced to $100k for the next 3 years for metropolitan football.

Turbo, i think there is still plenty to discuss before 2021 comes around.
For example
Salary Cap..Premier 100k...Div 1...80k...Div 2...70k for the next 3 years in metropolitan football. There is no doubt i would believe that everyone agrees the $$$$ should come down however 1) can the clubs be trusted to adhere to the cap? 2) can the cap be policed 3) what penalties would act as a deterrent? 4) should the coach be included in the cap?
On a side note, what will the large junior clubs do with a spare 150k to 200k?

I think the premier should be 150k / div1 100k / div2 70-80k.
That’s reasonable and most clubs can generate that.

100k for premier is a big drop from this year and unreasonable to expect them to work through contracts outstanding. More work for volunteers..

Ok that’s it fron me

 

[Cheapseat]

Only seven teams will contest the shortened VFL season after the Casey Demons withdrew from the competition in a heavy blow for the league, which had already been depleted by the withdrawal of AFL teams.

The Demons withdrew from the competition this morning, citing medical advice about the health risk to players and officials

 

[the horse whisper]

I think the premier should be 150k / div1 100k / div2 70-80k.
That’s reasonable and most clubs can generate that.

100k for premier is a big drop from this year and unreasonable to expect them to work through contracts outstanding. More work for volunteers..

Ok that’s it fron me

Yes that’s probably the case. But it’s going to be uniformed over all metro leagues. So some other clubs in metro might not be able to afford 100k. The best thing AFL Victoria will do is have an even salary cap over metro football. 100k is enough that way playayers will either play for the club or they won’t. Football shouldn’t be seen as an income for players. It’s used to form mateship and being part of a small club communities where u find life long friends.
too many players use it to make as much money as they can and don’t care about the club and the people at the club who love their football club.
those players will either have to change their attitude.

 

[Gingergrandison]

1) can the clubs be trusted to adhere to the cap?
Sadly no Orbit we all know that it is going to be very unlikely that clubs are going to be able to convince their top-end talent to play for an average of $225 per game to fit into the $100K cap. We all know of players over the years who were and are on $1k (heaps of blokes), $1,500 (top 5 % or 10 blokes in premier) $2,000 (2-3 blokes) very hard to see those guys accepting 5 to 10 times less a game. Some may bail on local footy and move on in their life, some may cop it and a lot will make their way to clubs willing to work around it.

2) can the cap be policed
NO/YES it is very difficult if the cash never goes into the club's bank account and gets given to a player in cash it's nearly impossible end of story, BUT your side note of what will they do with the extra $150 to $200K will be the clue for the AFL auditors to at least make it difficult because they can just cross-reference the number of registered juniors with the amount publically charged for regos etc.. and with some basic accounting forensics ask to see the leftover cash and it will be very hard for a club to manipulate that, they might try and record less cash takings for bar and functions but the junior regos alone in the big clubs who have lots of kids and charge a lot will still mathematically mean they should be having profits accruing in their bank accounts and if not they will need to show where the money went.

3) what penalties would act as a deterrent?
The main ones would be formal office holders of footy clubs to be legally exposed e.g someone like Bruce Kent or Larkin (not an officeholder now) wouldn't be comfortable being exposed to the legal risk and the business career implications that it would cause. Don't know what the ins and outs of the legals are on that and whether anything would be enforceable?


4) should the coach be included in the cap?
In my view no, Keilor, Abers, Greenvale, Strathmore deserve to have some advantage for being well run clubs so they should be able to spend their money on something that gives their members the joy of winning more, Keilor get an advantage by having Mick McGuane, Greenvale had an elite ex AFL player in Chapman and they deserve that. But my call out is the EDFL will need points handicaps to help deal with 60% of all kids in the elite systems TAC, VFL and AFL coming from 2 EDFL clubs Abers & Keilor that will rip the comp apart in coming years. e.g 5 ex elites playing mean 5 points to Abers and 25 points to a club recruiting similar talent, in the end, you won't be able to field a side under the points cap to win like for like cattle against those two clubs.

Policing payments can be done however needs too many resources and process/governance changes that make it difficult for the EDFL have nothing to gain but lots to loose (enter a boys club) from Board level


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[Aucklander]

I've seen some good young kids in this league who would have been a better investment than that useless american at Collingwood.

 

[Joey Montoro]

I've seen some good young kids in this league who would have been a better investment than that useless american at Collingwood.

there are always good young gems playing local footy that never grace the AFL. For whatever reason they aren’t in the system, if it’s by choice fair enough, but if they are never considered that’s why we have these experiments with players that just aren’t up to it, nor have that innate sense of the game having grown up with a footy in hand.