EDFL Premier Div 2020

[Wearmouth]

OK TP86 yes sir whatever you say.

Glad you got that off your chest.

I think that attitude is how the EDFL Board got into this mess.

Elites telling people what to do and expecting everyone to jump.

Next ......

It’s often difficult to fight against an overwhelming tide. Especially one that’s primarily established to gauge financial gain at whatever cost. All you can do is present a position openly and fairly. And allow people to have the ability to choose. The rest is up to them.

Fiat justitia ruat caelum......

Well done on your efforts. It has been enjoyable to say the least.


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[Turnover]

It is an ongoing embarrassment and completely unbecoming. Log off and prepare for 2021.

It’s often difficult to fight against an overwhelming tide. Especially one that’s primarily established to gauge financial gain at whatever cost. All you can do is present a position openly and fairly. And allow people to have the ability to choose. The rest is up to them.

Fiat justitia ruat caelum......

Well done on your efforts. It has been enjoyable to say the least.


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Ha ha

 

[Potato Chops]

Over to you Simmsy , its cricket season

 

[MYOB]

Abers are giving the option to roll-over and nothing more to pay next year or get a 60% refund now.

 

[Potato Chops]

Abers are giving the option to roll-over and nothing more to pay next year or get a 60% refund now.

Wouldn’t they just get the money out of the bank and give back a 100% refund.
Surely the EDFL should be asking questions to Abers regarding this business model.
I understand that Abers could say it’s none of your business however it is.
If Collingwood said that their would be part return of club memberships earlier in the year the AFL would step in and let them know that this business practice is against the law.
When you buy a service you can ask for your money back if you don’t get that service.

 

[torpfrom50]

Abers are giving the option to roll-over and nothing more to pay next year or get a 60% refund now.

Well watch this space then, although i guess you cant refund what you dont have?

 

[Turbos mail]

Abers are giving the option to roll-over and nothing more to pay next year or get a 60% refund now.

Is this true? Can you post a club statement so we can respond pls..BF will explode..

 

[torpfrom50]

Is this true? Can you post a club statement so we can respond pls..BF will explode..

Has to be true you read it on big footy

 

[simmsy]

Over to you Simmsy , its cricket season

Get on Douttas for the flag.

 

[MYOB]

Is this true? Can you post a club statement so we can respond pls..BF will explode..

I can guarantee it's true.
They say because they have already incurred costs such as training gear, training tops, merchandise and tenancy costs.

 

[Stax on the mill]

Get on Douttas for the flag.

Keep putting themselves in position to win it over the past 5 seasons. Just can't get over the line come finals time, despite consistently being the strongest and best performed team during the H and A.

 

[Donald D]

I can guarantee it's true.
They say because they have already incurred costs such as training gear, training tops, merchandise and tenancy costs.

Not to mention paying the players from last year!

Donald D

 

[towball]

And I'll follow up , I believe there is this mis-conception that some clubs(Abers,Keilor & Smore) have better people than everyone else. This is based on their juniors win more than the other clubs.. Believe me that could not be further from the truth so the comment made and my response of a simple "wrong" is more than justified

I have played and coached at several clubs, umpired premier, administered and am coming from a position of experience and knowledge.
You're belief is not fact and you have tried to put a very basic observation to what you have stated above.
At no point did I put wins v loses or numbers playing as a consequence of what constitutes a good or bad club, it's more complex than that basic assessment. In looking at it from this perspective you would be best to assess the improvement in the lowest team in each grade from a club to measure how well they teach the children.
I also didn't say each club, but under those big few alot have either poor people or don't know footy or how to teach footy or don't promote a good culture or enforce club behavior standards. Generally the lower the grade of club the greater a combination of the aforementioned exists.
Parents want what's best for their kids and there are clubs I would never allow my kids to play with and would walk away if forced to play at one of them. This point is very relevant with a large portion or parents I have spoken to.
So as I said, if you remove profiteering from junior fees it allows the lesser clubs to compete on a more even keel when it comes to finances.
I am happy to be proven wrong, that's what good debate is about but please give me some substance as why I am wrong?

 

[Silver Tongue]

Is this true? Can you post a club statement so we can respond pls..BF will explode..

Have not been on here for a while now Turbs old mate. I can safely say you are no longer the most prolific poster on the EDFL Premier forum!!

A few old regular posters have disappeared, but simmsy still prefers cricket and Cheapseat loves his YouTube. Still worth the 6 page read though, as some knowledgable posters talking about the game we love.

 

[RednWhite]

Abers are giving the option to roll-over and nothing more to pay next year or get a 60% refund now.

60%.. what have they done to keep the other 40%? What a ripoff.

 

[nWo]

Long time lurker from Qld

My son plays for an elite club in Brisbane. We have a NEAFL program which pays senior players and I can’t get over how expensive some of the fees you guys are talking for juniors. We are at about $300

 

[Colonel Sanders 3036]

I can guarantee it's true.
They say because they have already incurred costs such as training gear, training tops, merchandise and tenancy costs.

That's not entirely true. Council hasn't charged any clubs rent, training tops are paid for by sponsors and merchandise is at the kids cost (you buy it, you get it) - jumpers are owned by the club. And what about Abers seniors. I understand mens fees are $850 and womens are $650. I can only assume they are also paying at least 40% of this years subs. In fact shouldn't it be more since they would have paid Potter & Co something, they would have bought strapping (which the kids dont use), senior merch, etc etc. Surely the kids are not covering that too!!! PLUS, senior payments for next year are also $100,000 down.

 

[Colonel Sanders 3036]

Those words look familiar

There is nothing sinister in the SFC statement and the aim was to be completely transparent. Having a volunteer manually refund memberships is a pain. What we have asked is people 'let it ride' for next season (as other clubs have requested also FYI). The SportsTG 'administration fee (around 3.9% from memory) alone is worth $20+ in saving. We've also intimated that fees will potentially go up - hardly earth shattering in this economy. Finally, SFC is maxed out at a couple of age groups so yes, the family is essentially guaranteeing their 2021 spot. There is even the option to get a refund next year if they change their mind.

I look forward to your critiquing of the other 31 EDFL Club Membership refund scenarios.

Yes, the Sporting Pulse cost is high and I agree that it should be past onto parents. in fact some clubs simply do not permit payments through this portal. Good idea. I also think a few clubs, like SFC, charge a weekly fee on top of their memberships. $10/game to cover umpire fees (which in my opinion should be part of annual subs). That's an extra $140/kid.

 

[the horse whisper]

That's not entirely true. Council hasn't charged any clubs rent, training tops are paid for by sponsors and merchandise is at the kids cost (you buy it, you get it) - jumpers are owned by the club. And what about Abers seniors. I understand mens fees are $850 and womens are $650. I can only assume they are also paying at least 40% of this years subs. In fact shouldn't it be more since they would have paid Potter & Co something, they would have bought strapping (which the kids dont use), senior merch, etc etc. Surely the kids are not covering that too!!! PLUS, senior payments for next year are also $100,000 down.

Just on that both the seniors and women’s team get access to a physio at training and match days so I’m guessing it would pay for that. Last time I went to a physio they were expensive so I’m guessing some of that money would cover that. I know the physio is available Monday, Thursday and Saturday at the club plus you can visit him during the week at his practice. Now I’m guessing most of the senior subs wouldn’t have been paid as I’m sure most of it comes out of their match payments and the others probably pay if of during the year. But I do agree $850 is very high. When I played footy it cost me about $500. That wasn’t very long ago either.

 

[FromTheBar]

60%.. what have they done to keep the other 40%? What a ripoff.

Reading their website I believe their membership is split between the football club and sports club - so would the sports club represent the 40% ?

 

[Colonel Sanders 3036]

Reading their website I believe their membership is split between the football club and sports club - so would the sports club represent the 40% ?

what costs does the sports club have that needs covering this year (or any year for that matter)?

 

[Colonel Sanders 3036]

Just on that both the seniors and women’s team get access to a physio at training and match days so I’m guessing it would pay for that. Last time I went to a physio they were expensive so I’m guessing some of that money would cover that. I know the physio is available Monday, Thursday and Saturday at the club plus you can visit him during the week at his practice. Now I’m guessing most of the senior subs wouldn’t have been paid as I’m sure most of it comes out of their match payments and the others probably pay if of during the year. But I do agree $850 is very high. When I played footy it cost me about $500. That wasn’t very long ago either.

Senior subs would come out of match payments for the 22 - 30 that play seniors. This would not apply to their 2nds, 3rds or U18 teams. Whether they have paid it already or not, point being that seniors MUST contribute to the running of all clubs. If there is a fee for juniors then surely there is also a fee for seniors.

 

[torpfrom50]

I can guarantee it's true.
They say because they have already incurred costs such as training gear, training tops, merchandise and tenancy costs.

you mean they have paid players with the junior memberships

 

[Cheapseat]

It’s often difficult to fight against an overwhelming tide. Especially one that’s primarily established to gauge financial gain at whatever cost. All you can do is present a position openly and fairly. And allow people to have the ability to choose. The rest is up to them.

Fiat justitia ruat caelum......

Well done on your efforts. It has been enjoyable to say the least.


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I hear you, Wearmouth Justice , let's say my attempts at comic relief and stirring don't help my cause as a couple of posters have pointed out which is a fair call.

I think my general frustration from my very first post was that the vested interests were clear and I documented them. And the Pro Play camp at the EDFL and some key clubs that had collected a lot of Junior Registration revenue was putting financial interest before all other concerns sadly even the risks to their members, players, volunteers etc.. they were hiding behind the return to play guidelines and saying if the government say it's safe then who are we to judge that. People on the inner sanctum knew all along what the real self-interest driver was and it was EDFL fees and Junior subs for the clubs.

I think what confused matters were there was a pro play camp that was fans like Torp etc.. and they had more honest and ethical reasons for playing, like wanting the young people and kids to be active, play some sport, give the community hope these were all valid desires but the decision-maker pro play camp were using those honest motivations to mask the real financial reason and they were hell-bent on pushing all the way and only now when their hand had been forced and we see how they are treating the refunds has the penny dropped for most of us.

It's encouraging that the BF posters here seem to be onto it now and asking great questions and I hope they create pressure on behalf of the average punters.

An article today in the Herald Sun spells it out:


Extracts:
The loss of junior sport this year will have a significant impact on club and league finances, with participation fees a major driver for competitions across Melbourne.

With sponsors already struggling in the shutdown and social functions ruled out for the foreseeable future, clubs are concerned about long-term sustainability. (Larkin rumoured email)

Northern Football Netball League boss Peter McDougall said last month the league faced a long-term rebuild if junior football and netball did not go ahead.

“With juniors and netball being played, that will certainly help from a financial perspective"

“At the end of the day, if we’d had no footy at all, the impact would have been significant, and it would have taken the league a long time to recover. If juniors and netball get up the impact won’t be anywhere near as severe.

Craig Hill, president of Essendon District powerhouse Keilor, said juniors were critical to clubs viability.

“If the junior space doesn’t get up as well, that will equally hurt because we’ll be in a position where we will refund all that money to the members who have paid.

“I expect most clubs will face some form of financial challenge and we’ll just be trying to ideally break even from last year to this year.”


Star was taking the piss out of me saying can't wait for your boring rundown on how clubs treat junior refunds and sadly that shows how blind some of us are as that is exactly the thing we all needed to focus on as it was at the heart of the matter because it has revealed the true motivations of key players like the EDFL, Keilor, Abers, Greenvale who had collected a lot of junior fees and had rumours that they had expended some of it as part of how they run their business models.

So let's stay posted on how clubs treat it:
Abers
Keilor
Greenvale

Nothing on FB from Abers (looks like news has leaked on their approach), Keilor have hidden their approach and asked parents to log in to Team App so the broader public cant see it and Greenvale nothing yet.

I am sure they will give it back to people with hardship they are good local footy people and there are people at each of their clubs who will be able to personally cover/donate club shortfalls.

But the moral or lesson here is some clubs with lots of juniors and high fees have got into the habit of collecting their junior rego fees early in the year and use it as working capital to fund expenses related to senior footy programs from the previous operating year and forward player payments for the next year like new big signings, Messe would be a classic example. My motivation was to let people know this is why the EDFL and clubs weren't calling the season off when I personally thought it was prudent for the broader community. The debate on if juniors subs should or shouldn't be rolled into consolidated revenue to help run senior and women programs is another debate, but to be clear if that didn't happen Keilor, Abers, Greenvale, Strathmore and Marby emerging wouldn't have anywhere near as strong senior programs, coaches and talent.





Based on my research regards Strathmore and Pascoe Vale with Stax it was interesting to see Pascoe Vale must get pressure from their parents about what junior fees are spent on because they publicly state it on their website.

Football Membership — Pascoe Vale Sports Club

www.pascoevalesc.org.au

Junior football

Junior football members fees go towards the cost of our junior teams playing - from ground and match fees and paying umpires through to presentation nights at the end of the season.

• Juniors $355 (U17 boys and U18 girls and below)
• Family Membership $590 (Multiple children U17 boys & U18 girls & below)
• Family $525 (1 U9 & 1 Other)
• Under 9’s Player $170

Maybe that's why they were unequivocally offering full junior rego refunds.

I am sure a lot of other clubs will take this approach and it will be a clue on how they run their business models. E.g haven't spent junior rego fees then they will offer full refunds and if they have spent some of it they will make it harder e.g Abers or say things like it is our preference to keep your fees for 2021 and offer discounts or guarantees of kids spots to make it go that way.

If enough everyday people make enough noise it might create some pressure for clubs to do the right thing.

 

[Gingergrandison]

That's not entirely true. Council hasn't charged any clubs rent, training tops are paid for by sponsors and merchandise is at the kids cost (you buy it, you get it) - jumpers are owned by the club. And what about Abers seniors. I understand mens fees are $850 and womens are $650. I can only assume they are also paying at least 40% of this years subs. In fact shouldn't it be more since they would have paid Potter & Co something, they would have bought strapping (which the kids dont use), senior merch, etc etc. Surely the kids are not covering that too!!! PLUS, senior payments for next year are also $100,000 down.

Councils charge fees all year round, and are paid all year round irrespective of cricket /footy season they annualise the costs so as to not over burden the clubs. Training tops may be paid by sponsors if clubs have been able to get the coin. Clubs order the merchandise based on a season going ahead. The season was postponed on March 23rd well and truly after all Merchandise was ordered!
Edfl have minimum orders on shorts and socks so they are ordered and paid for irrespective of orders
Jumpers are not owned by the club

New Footballs are purchased


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