EDFL Premier Div 2020

[Turbos mail]

That is certainly not the case at a lot of clubs, where you pay the full amount at registration.

These clubs are mostly doing that to pay senior players owed money from previous years. That is not a good way to budget so let’s see if they refund full amounts if the season doesn’t get going.

 

[The Grover]

These clubs are mostly doing that to pay senior players owed money from previous years. That is not a good way to budget so let’s see if they refund full amounts if the season doesn’t get going.

Also not a valid reason for a club to opt out of this season. I suspect this is the case with many clubs.

 

[Turbos mail]

Also not a valid reason for a club to opt out of this season. I suspect this is the case with many clubs.

No mate, it’s the case for clubs run well. A budget should be managed per season and you should be aiming to make a profit or at the least break even.

 

[Cheapseat]

I have been watching the debate on whether we should have a 9-week season or not in 2020 due to Covid and most recently listened to the EDFL podcast with Mick McGuane and Ian Kyte EDFL CEO.

I will say upfront I want to make a case that running a 9-week EDFL senior season in 2020 starting August 1 (EDFL floated proposal) is unethical, dangerous to the players/volunteers and their family's income/health and generally non-commercial, I'm struggling to find plausible upsides for "most of the stakeholders" and I will elaborate on who I left out of "most"...

When listening to a debate about anything the best place to start is to try and understand the vested interests, who has what to gain and lose and usually this will help you understand the various parties motives. This helps because once you understand that you can filter out the self-interest and figure out whether the person/entity is advancing a cause for the benefit of all or more narrowly for their self-interest.

I want to breakdown the vested interests of the main stakeholders and which parties do or don't want a 2020 9-week season to go ahead and why;

For

The AFL- They are concerned that Soccer/World Game will win a greater share of kids with parents opting for a less contact sport for this year and maybe even next so they are super keen to keep kids participation going.

The EDFL/All Leagues- The reason is they have the most to lose if a season doesn't go ahead the EDFL will likely lose circa $250K and if it goes ahead it can charge membership fees to the clubs one of its primary sources of revenue. Also if the season ends most EDFL employees not already stood down would need to be as soon as the season is called off to protect the circa $800K the EDFL has in the bank.

Highly Paid Officials (not players as $0 salary cap proposed now) - Let's take for example the two highest-paid individuals in the EDFL & Clubland Ian Kyte and Mick McGuane are by far and away the two people who earn the most money and McMguane would be the only person in EDFL clubland who earns a commercial wage equivalent to a salary in the community. If the season doesn't go ahead both of those individuals have the most income to lose in the EDFL it's no coincidence that it is those two individuals on the EDFL Podcast advocating a season goes forward.

Supporter- We all would love to watch some local footy, we all miss it. Its great entertainment with our friends.


Against

The Clubs- The Heathcote league's public announcement about why they called off the 2020 season spells out clublands challenges better than I can, but basically, a 9 week season starts the costs flowing without the revenue to support it along with a health and safety volunteer challenge as well. The guidelines passed down from the AFL about safe Covid practices in clubland are highly unrealistic and beyond token attempts to comply in "spirit" the likelihood of clubs being able to provide a safe place for volunteers, paid medical staff, coaches & players is very low.

The Players- The players are now being asked or at least told they will have to play for nothing and risk potential loss of income through needing to self-quarantine due to possible exposure to a positive Covid player, volunteer or official in the course of pursuing their now unpaid hobby. Employers are also expressing concerns to players they employ that playing could force the player into self-quarantine which means 14 days off work and in a worse case tests positive and forces a shutdown of part or all of a small business which would be devastating.

The Sponsors- They don't want to pay for a season where the chance for people to see their signage, logos and networking at after games drinks/functions is now gone.

The Volunteers- They are concerned about volunteering as their primary focus is their job/income, infecting elderly family and any chance that being forced to self-quarantine from possible exposure is a big worry for them and their employers just like the players.

The Club Officials- They don't want to because it will be an inordinate amount of work and stress trying to comply with Covid guidelines and the concern that if something goes wrong and someone at their club tests positive the ramifications for the number of people who would need to self-quarantine and therefore the flow-on effects to families and businesses loss of income is a massive concern. Also in a very worst-case event, a young asymptomatic Covid positive player infects a family member like a grandparent or sick relative and they pass away.

Any reasonable person who scans this will not need much convincing on what the right thing to do for the broader community is and the only plausible denial of this is someone saying Covid is not that serious, we have so few cases in Melbourne and players won't get Covid so we are jumping at shadows.

Just Google "player tests positive for coronavirus" and see what pops up and you will see A-League, Premier League, Serie A, NBA, NHL and that is in a professional environment with lots of resources to provide a safe workplace. All professional leagues have a big advantage being that sport is their job not a hobby and they do not have to go into the broader economy and possibly force parts or all of the businesses they work at to shutdown causing serious loss of income to everyday people. For a general workplace example in Melbourne we need to look no further than Cedar Meats where within a month there were 111 cases of coronavirus linked to the plant, including 67 workers and 44 close contacts. We know that a player is very unlikely to get sick from Covid, that's not the serious risk its the self quarantining flow-on effects to players/volunteers income, players/volunteers families income and players/volunteers older or sick family's health.

I understand Ian Kyte and Mick McGuane pushing hard for a 9-week 2020 season because they are looking after their personal income, they have families, fears etc.. it's normal and it's very sad for all people who have had their income affected by Covid it's terrible. But having a 9-week 2020 season will only add to the number of people who will lose income within clubs and the broader community. All leaders at the EDFL, Clubland, Coaches need to put their players, volunteers and their families first it's not reasonable to say our players want to play, or we just want to watch some local footy these things come a very distant second to protecting the well being of our players and volunteers whole life where work income and family health is much more important.

It's in these times that real leadership comes to the fore and the willingness of a leader to put the people they are leading needs first is the measure of a true leader. Without picking on Mick McGuane and other leaders like him it's incumbent on them to be able to look his players in the eye and say I really do care about you as a whole person not just a footballer and it's not fair of me to ask you to play for nothing or a massive reduction and put your broader life circumstance at risk whilst I still get paid as an employee. How much do we really care?

It's a shitty situation all round no winners and I am sure everyone is doing their very best even if they have different opinions.

 

[localfootyman_7]

Another country league done for the season. Kyabram league has cancelled its season.

 

[Colonel Sanders 3036]

Exactly- How many other clubs have trained 8-10 Covid officers? To rotate 130 + players through a training program. I agree it would have been great for the mental health aspect and getting everyone back together.But, unfortunately, there aren’t to many clubs this organise. You can’t doubt Mick passion, enthusiasm and positivity- Maybe a future CEO of the edfl to project onto the other clubs instead of just Keilor! He would take the comp to the next level for any future planning. As his states it all starts with the Juniors !

The COVID training required by AFLVic takes less than 30 moinutes to do and is common sence. Keilor is not the only big club all clubs have hundreds of kids and hundreds of parents. they not asking to donate your first borne, just to step up for 9 weeks in one year (if the season proceeds). Love Mick though, he is a passionate and dedicated Keilor man.

 

[Doona2]

Through no ones fault the landscape has changed, as maybe so has some folks motivations and perceptions on a few things, and they shouldn't be judged or "shamed" because of all this.

Club's are all in survival mode, and what may work for one, most certainly may not fit the mould to another - and that's all dependant on resources, skillsets of volunteers and again the motivating factors.

I still say tread carefully to all clubs, and jump in if you want ... but if players, parents, clubs, sponsors choose to opt out for whatever 2021 may be (if anything) then for once I think a mutual understanding and respect across society should be afforded.

Surely this Us v Them dick measuring can be rested for a while, and resumed in 2021 ha ha!!!

 

[Cheapseat]

How easy the COVID volunteer training is, is neither here nor there because unless the Victorian State Government changes it's rulings on the resumption of sport and recreation activities and removes the need for 1.5m social distancing then there will be no competition full stop unless the EDFL rules will be changed allowing us to play footy but not get closer than 1.5m?

Restrictions for metropolitan Melbourne - Sport and Recreation Victoria

sport.vic.gov.au

See here:
A full list of activities and current restrictions can be viewed below.

From 26 May, public playgrounds, outdoor gyms and skateparks will open with a maximum of 10 people allowed to use equipment at any one time.

From 1 June, restrictions on sport and exercise will be eased:

Up to 20 people can participate in group sport and exercise activities but it must be outside and non-contact.
Up to 20 people can use public playgrounds, outdoor gyms and skateparks
Sport and exercise activities are only allowed if you can keep your distance (at least 1.5 metres apart) and they are not competitive
Indoor and outdoor swimming pools can be opened to a maximum of 20 patrons per separate enclosed space, subject to the four square metre rule calculated on the publicly accessible area excluding the pool and a limit of 3 persons per lane in each pool.

From 22 June, restrictions on sport and exercise will be further eased to include:

Indoor sports centres and venues can be opened with up to 20 people allowed per separate enclosed space, subject to the four square metre rule, with up to 10 people per group or activity
Indoor physical recreation (e.g. gyms, health clubs, class fitness studios) can be opened with up to 20 people allowed per separate enclosed space, subject to the four square metre rule, with up to 10 people per group or activity
Sport and exercise activities are only allowed if you can keep your distance (at least 1.5 metres apart) and they are not competitive
All indoor venues will need to abide by existing physical distancing requirements of one person per four square metres.

 

[Cheapseat]

I think people are getting confused its not the very simple Covid officer volunteer training that is the problem in the unlikely event the Victorian Government changes its rules and allows leagues to start competitive contact sport competitions in 2020 it's what the clubs have to do as a whole for anyone who hasn't checked it out see attachment:


A sample extract:

The Return to Play plan is intended to assist organisations return safely to sport and recreation activities under the latest Stay at Home and Restricted Activity Directions issued by the Victorian Chief Health Officer and allows each organisation to consider their activities and the environment in which activities take place.

State Sporting Associations will be supported in preparing Return to Play plans consistent with the Stay at Home and Chief Health Officer’s directions and this Community Sport and Recreation Guidance.

Sporting organisations will be responsible for developing and enforcing these Return to Play plans. Sport and Recreation Victoria can provide advice and support to organisations in the development of these, noting that those organisations are ultimately responsible for them.

Responses must:

• Align with the current Stay at Home and Restricted Activity Directions issued by the Victorian Chief Health Officer
• Provide complete responses and required supporting documentation
• Account for the current permitted level of sport or recreation activity in your plan, and identify how your plan will respond to changes in permitted levels of activity, whether that is community, competitive, non-competitive or recreation activities
• Ensure that activity resumption does not compromise the health of individuals or the community

In instances where you are unable to find your sport or recreation activity listed in the Resumption of Community Sport and Recreation activities list [hyperlink], you should refer to the Stay at Home and Restricted Activity Directions issued by the Victorian Chief Health Officer. Note: recreation includes all outdoor recreation activities including outdoor education and adventure and the resumption of these activities will need to consider current Stay at Home and Restricted Activity Directions.

If you are an State Sporting Association, National Sporting Organisation or a peak sport and recreation body and have any additional questions about preparing your Return to Play plan you can email info@sport.vic.gov.au

All community sporting clubs, associations and leagues are encouraged to contact their SSAs or DHHS Infoline direct on 1800 675 398 for advice on compliance with the Restricted Activity Directions.

Important note: Return to Play plans should be updated in line with any updates to the Victorian Chief Health Officer Restricted Activity Directions.

In practical terms, if games were to start below are some operational club level things that would need to happen to try and comply: (See attached the Return to Play Plan all clubs have to submit to see how the practicalities play out)

• Changerooms can't open and players have to come to the game dressed and taped to play
• Names of any officials and people in contact need to be taken down on a register for possible contact tracing
• Security counts on people on indoor spaces will need to be maintained
• etc..
• etc..

 

[Come on Cents]

I think the AFL Victoria Return To Training Protocols & Checklist on the EDFL website is the latest update.

 

[Cheapseat]

I think the AFL Victoria Return To Training Protocols & Checklist on the EDFL website is the latest update.

Hey Come on Cents nope that's just the guidelines for training and are a subset of the broader Return To Play Guidelines.

Also for further clarity these are just the AFL Victoria guidelines which interpret the Victoria Government’s guidelines I shared above. If you take a look at the EDFL page here the final line is “Local Government approval is also required to commence sanctioned training.”
The final authority is the Victorian State Government not AFL, not EDFL or councils everything hangs off the Chief Medical Officer of Victoria.

Oops | AFL Victoria

essendondfl.com.au

Oops | AFL Victoria

essendondfl.com.au

 

[Come on Cents]

I thought Keilor had already returned to training in small groups ??

 

[Cheapseat]

I thought Keilor had already returned to training in small groups ??

Yes training is allowed if it complies with the Victorian Goverments current guidelines.

 

[Cheapseat]

I thought Keilor had already returned to training in small groups ??

Whether teams can train is not what everyone is discussing or debating its whether full contact competitions will happen in 2020.

Clubs can train all they want as long as it complys with current guidelines but there will be no competition to play in unless the Victorian Goverments Chief Health Officer further eases its guidance for recreation and sport in Victoria from June 22. You would reckon that they would give the from June 22 new eased restrictions at least 2 to 4 weeks before easing further which gets us to mid July hence the EDFL and other leagues hoping they can get a start August 1st and delay 2021 season to give everyone a chance to catch their breath.

From 22 June, restrictions on sport and exercise will be further eased to include:

Indoor sports centres and venues can be opened with up to 20 people allowed per separate enclosed space, subject to the four square metre rule, with up to 10 people per group or activity
Indoor physical recreation (e.g. gyms, health clubs, class fitness studios) can be opened with up to 20 people allowed per separate enclosed space, subject to the four square metre rule, with up to 10 people per group or activity
Sport and exercise activities are only allowed if you can keep your distance (at least 1.5 metres apart) and they are not competitive

 

[Colonel Sanders 3036]

Whether teams can train is not what everyone is discussing or debating its whether full contact competitions will happen in 2020.

Clubs can train all they want as long as it complys with current guidelines but there will be no competition to play in unless the Victorian Goverments Chief Health Officer further eases its guidance for recreation and sport in Victoria from June 22. You would reckon that they would give the from June 22 new eased restrictions at least 2 to 4 weeks before easing further which gets us to mid July hence the EDFL and other leagues hoping they can get a start August 1st and delay 2021 season to give everyone a chance to catch their breath.

From 22 June, restrictions on sport and exercise will be further eased to include:

Indoor sports centres and venues can be opened with up to 20 people allowed per separate enclosed space, subject to the four square metre rule, with up to 10 people per group or activity
Indoor physical recreation (e.g. gyms, health clubs, class fitness studios) can be opened with up to 20 people allowed per separate enclosed space, subject to the four square metre rule, with up to 10 people per group or activity
Sport and exercise activities are only allowed if you can keep your distance (at least 1.5 metres apart) and they are not competitive

Geez, you've got a head full of steam today Cheapo. I'm not convinced posters are saying we must return to play, or that we should return to play at all costs. Those in support of a resumption are doing so with an asterix mostly. Prepare for a possible restart by abiding by a RtP training plan and re-assess when the government says so. If the ship starts to sink then the season gets the kyber. Most clubs cannot run on love alone. If no crowds, then no bar and no canteen, so no revenue. If that's the case, no-one can afford to play so the season must be shelved - the leagues do know this and because they cannot promise it, they can't lock in a re-start date that many are crowing about. If, in the process of returning to training the restrictions are reduced (because the CMO thinks its safe to do so), then maybe games can be played. PS - Sadly 78,000 Victorians die each year (including scores that die from the influenza virus), COVID has so far added 19 people to this number.

 

[Cheapseat]

Geez, you've got a head full of steam today Cheapo. I'm not convinced posters are saying we must return to play, or that we should return to play at all costs. Those in support of a resumption are doing so with an asterix mostly. Prepare for a possible restart by abiding by a RtP training plan and re-assess when the government says so. If the ship starts to sink then the season gets the kyber. Most clubs cannot run on love alone. If no crowds, then no bar and no canteen, so no revenue. If that's the case, no-one can afford to play so the season must be shelved - the leagues do know this and because they cannot promise it, they can't lock in a re-start date that many are crowing about. If, in the process of returning to training the restrictions are reduced (because the CMO thinks its safe to do so), then maybe games can be played. PS - Sadly 78,000 Victorians die each year (including scores that die from the influenza virus), COVID has so far added 19 people to this number.

Great rundown and agree with all that, even the reality of the small Covid numbers.

But even if you, I and everyone in the EDFL agree that it's small Covid numbers and low health risk it's the laws dictating that self quarantining is the go-to strategy which is the major hurdle or thing that triggers all of these outside footy income loss risks to players, players employers and families if they live with them so unless they do two things remove the 1.5m social distancing rule that lets competitive sport play and also remove the self-quarantine contact tracing protocols then what we think about how small the numbers are is irrelevant because the real risk is loss of income.

The only other thing I would add is the main legal reason they cannot lock in a start of season date (they do have a proposed fixture ready for early August kick off) is the Chief Health Officer would need to ease his after June 22 guidelines for recreation and sport to allow for contact sport e.g community-wide no 1.5m social distancing rule well before proposed August kick-off to allow for some contact training. But as you clearly outline even if the Victorian Government's state health laws allow it to happen by some miracle there is all the commercial challenges you raised and the Heathcote league outlined in their close of 2020 season media release.

 

[oldbutwise]

I thought Keilor had already returned to training in small groups ??

And Marby Park back tonight

 

[Cheapseat]

So we reckon it’s a good bet and worth the preparation effort this is causing all the volunteers in clubland that this bloke, not to mention “China” Dan Andrews is going to allow all Victorians to not social distance and remove the need for contact tracing and self quarantine within 8 weeks so the EDFL can start contact competition at the start of August? I reckon 2021 preseason games will be a push

Chief Health Officer today:

“Today’s increase in cases illustrates once again that while we have been flattening the curve, our battle against COVID-19 is far from over,” Victoria’s Chief Health Officer Professor Brett Sutton said.

Professor Sutton warned while the state and country had robust contact-tracing and mitigation measures in place, the risk was not over as restrictions eased.

"I will worry about a second wave until there is a vaccine given to everyone in Australia," he said.

"That risk will remain as long as the virus is around.

"This entire pandemic started with a single individual infected and we're at 5, 6 million cases globally."

"Numbers are very small but it only takes a single individual and if these settings don't have the appropriate other measures in place, instead of maybe just having one other infection, they could have 20 and we could be following a cluster or an outbreak of cases."

Victoria's coronavirus cases rise by 10, including second worker at Melbourne hotel - ABC News

www.google.com.au

So all power to the Keilors and Marbys who are tying to get training going but they might need to get used to socially distant burpees, phantom high fives, wiping Sherrins down with wet wipes whilst admiring each other’s bicep curls from 1.5m in a very long run up to 2021 ....

 

[Colonel Sanders 3036]

So we reckon it’s a good bet and worth the preparation effort this is causing all the volunteers in clubland that this bloke, not to mention “China” Dan Andrews is going to allow all Victorians to not social distance and remove the need for contact tracing and self quarantine within 8 weeks so the EDFL can start contact competition at the start of August? I reckon 2021 preseason games will be a push

Chief Health Officer today:

“Today’s increase in cases illustrates once again that while we have been flattening the curve, our battle against COVID-19 is far from over,” Victoria’s Chief Health Officer Professor Brett Sutton said.

Professor Sutton warned while the state and country had robust contact-tracing and mitigation measures in place, the risk was not over as restrictions eased.


"That risk will remain as long as the virus is around.

"This entire pandemic started with a single individual infected and we're at 5, 6 million cases globally."

"Numbers are very small but it only takes a single individual and if these settings don't have the appropriate other measures in place, instead of maybe just having one other infection, they could have 20 and we could be following a cluster or an outbreak of cases."

Victoria's coronavirus cases rise by 10, including second worker at Melbourne hotel - ABC News

www.google.com.au

So all power to the Keilors and Marbys who are tying to get training going but they might need to get used to socially distant burpees, phantom high fives, wiping Sherrins down with wet wipes whilst admiring each other’s bicep curls from 1.5m in a very long run up to 2021 ....

We're selling hope at the moment. we don't need armies of helpers, just a few to sanitise and take a register. If we shut the gates until a vaccine is available we could stay home forever. That's not a good result. Ask the last parent whos kid died from Hep-C kidney failure - no vaccine there. Ask a grandson whos last grandparent died from influenza - vaccine didn't work. We could be in the USA where they value freedom over peoples lives. Hey, 100,000 deaths is OK to them. We value lives, Dan is cautious, he's doing a good job, as is ScoMo. They are tentatively reducing restictions with a foot hovering over the brake peddle. Unlike the USA, it will be pressed if things go bad. Let Keilor, Marby and whoever else wants, to train. that's all that's allowed for now, nothing more.

 

[the horse whisper]

EDFL announced that there will be zero match payments for 2020. If season starts.
Also that any player that has been paid (sign on)prior to May 28, must sign a stat dec or a declaration form for player payments. The league has stated that that payment will be included in the salary cap for 2021.
Any club found to have paid a player after 28th May will be in breach of player payment rules.

will be interested in some clubs reaction to this.

 

[Cheapseat]

EDFL announced that there will be zero match payments for 2020. If season starts.
Also that any player that has been paid (sign on)prior to May 28, must sign a stat dec or a declaration form for player payments. The league has stated that that payment will be included in the salary cap for 2021.
Any club found to have paid a player after 28th May will be in breach of player payment rules.

will be interested in some clubs reaction to this.

I hope the stat dec has enough space to capture the Nick Meese $ number

My tip is the EDFL will be inundated with clubs declaring sign ons to reduce their capacity to fit under the 2021 salary cap which is likely to be $100k.

 

[Cashless]

We're selling hope at the moment. we don't need armies of helpers, just a few to sanitise and take a register. If we shut the gates until a vaccine is available we could stay home forever. That's not a good result. Ask the last parent whos kid died from Hep-C kidney failure - no vaccine there. Ask a grandson whos last grandparent died from influenza - vaccine didn't work. We could be in the USA where they value freedom over peoples lives. Hey, 100,000 deaths is OK to them. We value lives, Dan is cautious, he's doing a good job, as is ScoMo. They are tentatively reducing restictions with a foot hovering over the brake peddle. Unlike the USA, it will be pressed if things go bad. Let Keilor, Marby and whoever else wants, to train. that's all that's allowed for now, nothing more.

 

[Cashless]

I like your thinking Colonel, you have to live, there's not going to be any vaccine any time soon, if they want to train let them.

 

[My North]

Good to see Marby returning to training tonight in small groups of 10.

 

[oldbutwise]

Another bu

So we reckon it’s a good bet and worth the preparation effort this is causing all the volunteers in clubland that this bloke, not to mention “China” Dan Andrews is going to allow all Victorians to not social distance and remove the need for contact tracing and self quarantine within 8 weeks so the EDFL can start contact competition at the start of August? I reckon 2021 preseason games will be a push

Chief Health Officer today:

“Today’s increase in cases illustrates once again that while we have been flattening the curve, our battle against COVID-19 is far from over,” Victoria’s Chief Health Officer Professor Brett Sutton said.

Professor Sutton warned while the state and country had robust contact-tracing and mitigation measures in place, the risk was not over as restrictions eased.


"That risk will remain as long as the virus is around.

"This entire pandemic started with a single individual infected and we're at 5, 6 million cases globally."

"Numbers are very small but it only takes a single individual and if these settings don't have the appropriate other measures in place, instead of maybe just having one other infection, they could have 20 and we could be following a cluster or an outbreak of cases."

Victoria's coronavirus cases rise by 10, including second worker at Melbourne hotel - ABC News

www.google.com.au

So all power to the Keilors and Marbys who are tying to get training going but they might need to get used to socially distant burpees, phantom high fives, wiping Sherrins down with wet wipes whilst admiring each other’s bicep curls from 1.5m in a very long run up to 2021 ....

Wow another one that’s spent to long in quarantine! such happy people on this forum. Ever been a grumpier more negative bunch of blokes all connected on the one site ???