Either Way, We Lose

[kelman]

This Byron trade has me feeling very low.

I just cannot see a good outcome coming from this speculation/reality.

If we do trade Byron, unless the terms are way out of whack, then we have been dudded. Leigh brown is not bad, but he is not Byron Pickett. I would like to see Leigh Brown carry his team like Byron did against the Bulldogs this year. We deserve much more.

If the trade doesn't go through, I think it still effects the player and the club intrinsicly. I think it happened at Essendon this year, and it may happen at North. If Byron didn't want to be traded, then that will b the worst case scenario, because he will be disillusioned. it he wanted to be traded, then we have a player who doesn't want to be here, playing out a year.

Overall,i know it is early on, but i just think that laidley is not impressing me in his first test. i think we got less than we should have for Carey, an this deal is a joke.

I just hope laidley isn't one of these converts to the belief that draft picks are everything, and that playing youth will secure a clubs future. It seems that about five or six clubs have this mentality, and it is flawed.

Every top 15 pick will NOT be a gun. that much we know. there are too many failures to think it will all fall into place. playing yout is one thing, but gambling your future on unproven talent is another. There seems to be a feeling in the footy world at the moment that if you play the youngsters then yor future is bright. This has pushed up the percieved value of draft picks, and in the end it looks like we may have fallen for it, and will thus lose a star.

 

[Z_K]

Fair enough, and some of us are feeling the same way ATM.

But, the coaching panel must see CHB and FB as possies we must sure up very very quickly. MArtyn gone, Jase a big ?, Colbert one year older, Crowe still raw and Baird to slight and not suited anyway. Doesn't leave much.

You cannot go into a season without FB and CHB sured up IMO. Byron is a gun, but IMO his position is replaceable. I don't think we will be better off without him or anything, but I can see the reason for the move.

Having said all this, it is 10 to 2, and we aint got nothing.

 

[Stern]

Its a shame to see Byron go, and a bit unexpected, however, as someone else has posted already, we have a surplus of quality small forwards coming through the ranks and a defecit of key position backs.

This trade is consistent with the youth policy that I think most people would endorse.

For me its a shrewd move.......

 

[kmartkid]

Just got an email from the club.

Byron swapped for Leigh Brown

More details to follow.

I am not happy with this. The only reason I can think of for this trade is that Byron wanted to go.

 

[CoastBhoy]

Originally posted by NorthBhoy
Fair enough, and some of us are feeling the same way ATM.

But, the coaching panel must see CHB and FB as possies we must sure up very very quickly. MArtyn gone, Jase a big ?, Colbert one year older, Crowe still raw and Baird to slight and not suited anyway. Doesn't leave much.

You cannot go into a season without FB and CHB sured up IMO. Byron is a gun, but IMO his position is replaceable. I don't think we will be better off without him or anything, but I can see the reason for the move.

Having said all this, it is 10 to 2, and we aint got nothing.

you're right on the money there northbouy , we really lack key position backmen , with watt not coming on like we hoped and crowe still a teen , we need something like a brown , but like everyone else i'd hate to see us giving up byron to make this happen

 

[pattyroo]

absolutely

First i saw swatta leave: shattered

then the duck, for 2 kids, UNBELIEVEABLE FOR BEST PLAYER EVA!

Now if Byron goes dunno what i'll do. don't get me wrong, luv the kangas, but this is f^((in rediculous!!!!!

Byron, like swatta and the king before him, is why we go to the footy, full stop!

 

[The Hippie]

Originally posted by kmartkid
Just got an email from the club.

Byron swapped for Leigh Brown

More details to follow.

I am not happy with this. The only reason I can think of for this trade is that Byron wanted to go.

Not very pleased myself, kmart kid. This is going to take some time to digest, losing a hard nut like Choppy so quicklyand easily.

 

[mighty mick]

call it coincidence but im feeling sick in the stomach about this trade as im watching the doggie game and choppy has just kicked 6,

what were we thinking byron must of wanted to go home thats all i can think of,

 

[Shinboners]

We're all feeling pretty low about it, but I think that Laidley is going to try and rebuild the club's playing list in the same way that he saw at Collingwood. While I agree with Kelman that top 15 draft picks don't guarantee success, the percentages say that the more picks you get in the top 15 to 20, the more likely you're going to pick up a gun player or two.

I think that from all this, we can assume that Grant and Sinclair will stay - Pickett going will free up some salary cap money for those two. And for everything we love about Pickett's hardness at the man and ball, I think Sinclair can do a similar (although in all honesty, not as damaging) job to Pickett.

As for picking up Leigh Brown, there was a scramble by a few other Victorian clubs to try and tempt him back home last year. I think that if we look three to five years down the track, a goal to goal line of: Brown - Watt/Baird/Crowe - Smith/Harris - Petrie/Morrell - Hale and suddenly looks pretty good. Throw in the kids already making their mark, plus whoever we pick up in the meantime, and the future starts to look kind of okay.

I think that our 2003 season may be similar to Geelong's 2002. There will be some great performances, but with plenty of young legs, we may run out of steam. However, we do still have a few old hands in Stevo, Archer, Simpson, Grant, Burton, Porter....so who knows, maybe we could emulate the 2000 Melbourne team with a youth inspired run to the finals and beyond.

Keep the faith guys. We've been fighting the odds for over 130 years....another year of it.....well, what's changed?

 

[croode]

Originally posted by mighty mick
call it coincidence but im feeling sick in the stomach about this trade as im watching the doggie game and choppy has just kicked 6,

what were we thinking byron must of wanted to go home thats all i can think of,

And basically that's all he did all year. North are taking a strategic punt to try and fix one of their major weakness, height and strength in the back half. As well as saving money on his salary, it increases the chances of keeping Sinclair and open up a spot in the side for the likes of Smith, Harris, Motlops etc.

Byron is too loose for North as they try to rebuild but would be good for Port as they try for the flag. B/c of that we should have got a better deal for him. He would have gone home at the end of his current contract anyway!

So folks, don't despair. Look at the bright side. It's the beginning of a new era of which I'm confident will be successful.

 

[Michele]

Originally posted by Shinboners
We're all feeling pretty low about it, but I think that Laidley is going to try and rebuild the club's playing list in the same way that he saw at Collingwood. While I agree with Kelman that top 15 draft picks don't guarantee success, the percentages say that the more picks you get in the top 15 to 20, the more likely you're going to pick up a gun player or two.


Keep the faith guys. We've been fighting the odds for over 130 years....another year of it.....well, what's changed?

Shinboners,

How many players remain at Collingwood from Shaw's "rebuilding phase"?

Collingwood ended up with a wooden spoon to pick up that year's best player and #1 draft pick - Josh Fraser. They also changed their admin entirely, got huge sponsorship, obtained the services of a coach with 2 premierships and added assistant coaches AND were able to keep the 100% salary cap option.

North have lost players that can play - only to obtain the chance of picking up a player who might be able to play.

The real killer is the 92.5% salary cap.

How can North compete on an unlevel playing field.

 

[Spidergirl~RiCkChiCk]

Originally posted by Michele
North have lost players that can play - only to obtain the chance of picking up a player who might be able to play.

Spot on Michele but North aren't the only ones. Heaps of clubs have done it and it absolutely sh1ts me to tears. How can so many clubs just offload some of their biggest name players so easily? and for wot ....over talked about unknown youngsters who will most likely never ever even come close to having as much impact as the big name players that they are swapping.

 

[Darky]

Everybody wins in this trade (except maybe the Dockers).

Byron said he would probably seek to leave after 2003, at which time we could have risked losing him for nothing. Instead, we lose his services for the final year of his contract, but pick up a player who fills a gaping hole, and can play with us for 10-12 years.

No bidding war, no huge salary cap squeeze, so as much as Byron was a big favourite, I reckon this deal isn't as bad as people are making out.

 

[Shinboners]

Originally posted by Michele

How many players remain at Collingwood from Shaw's "rebuilding phase"?

Don't know, don't care. And I don't think Laidley could be as awful a coach as Shaw. If we're going to talk about rebuilding, how about Collingwood under Malthouse? From a wooden spoon to a Grand Final in 3 years - it isn't too bad. Brisbane had a similar run - with theirs, it was from a wooden spoon to a flag in (off memory) 4 years and they had the core of their premiership team in that wooden spoon side.

Collingwood ended up with a wooden spoon to pick up that year's best player and #1 draft pick - Josh Fraser. They also changed their admin entirely, got huge sponsorship, obtained the services of a coach with 2 premierships and added assistant coaches AND were able to keep the 100% salary cap option.

I'm not sure what your point about Josh Fraser is, but we've got a new administration, we've got a new coach, and we've got a new development at Docklands. Oh, and Collingwood, whilst they have the 100% salary cap option, are actually operating AT LESS THAN 100%. It shows that it CAN BE DONE. Look at Richmond - they pay the full cap amount and look where it's gotten them.

North have lost players that can play - only to obtain the chance of picking up a player who might be able to play.

The real killer is the 92.5% salary cap.

How can North compete on an unlevel playing field.

I don't think the 92.5% cap is a bad thing - we can pay the players as they develop and as the club develop their income streams (as long as Docklands works out). And new players are always a risk - but in the same way that a bunch of kids named Carey, Martyn, Rock, Schwass, Archer, McKernan and co came through as a group to win a flag, we're looking that the new bunch of kids will do likewise. We have to start somewhere.

I would have preferred Pickett so stay - when he's on fire, it's just magical. But he played 2 good games in 2002, his 2001 wasn't that great either (certainly nothing like his 1998 and 1999 form), and we have a weakness with no key position backmen. So we have to take the risk on the trade.

 

[Melly017]

We paid a good % of our cap this year to a player who didn't play a game.

Don't get to hung up on the 92.5, it only takes your one of your top 5 to get injured and its there anyway. You just pay the middle/end of your list more money.

Why do you think Carlton blokes are all wrapped. some of them would have earnt more money this year than they will next two years.

 

[Shermanator]

Personally I am quite happy with the trade.

Even though I love Choppy as much as anyone else, and I thank him for everything he has given our great club, it is time for him to go.

Last year he probably played a handful of "good" games a couple of brilliant ones (see RD2 vs Bulldogs) other than that he was very ordinary. If it wasn't for the occasional bone crunching tackel to an opponent or the fact he was one of Pagans favs, any other coach would have dropped him at least once.

Nice move to pick up a potential star in the position we all would like filled CHB and the fact he can play up forward (if needed) is a bonus.

Lets look to the Motlop Bros, Jones, Smith, Harding, Boomer and maybe Kingy all having an influence in the forward line this year and be greatful our boys only have to play against Choppy once or maybe twice each year from now on!

 

[Gasometer]

What a dreadful decision.

It will be interesting to read the small print of this...did he wanna go? What was going on behind the decision? Is it 92.5% cap?

You don't go from a consistently top line player that whether or nor performed every week had an intimidatory value, peanuts.

At least with Schwatta, the deal was pretty even and of value to both clubs.

A sad day for the club, but have seen worse in this krapped out season that this year has been!

gaso

 

[Shinboners]

The only thing that really bugs me about the Pickett trade is Harrington's comment about Pickett and his manager indicating that Pickett would leave at the end of th 2003 season and that they were worried that they wouldn't be able to get a good deal for him. The thing is that the likes of Headland, Bell, Grant, and others have also wanted to return home after stints away from their home states, and yet, decent deals were managed.

Spin doctoring is one thing, but what Harrington said was crap.

 

[Sinkers_9]

Brown will be a very good player for us for years to come don't worry about that, just very sad to see one of our favourites go

 

[Karanicolas]

Originally posted by Shinboners
The only thing that really bugs me about the Pickett trade is Harrington's comment about Pickett and his manager indicating that Pickett would leave at the end of th 2003 season and that they were worried that they wouldn't be able to get a good deal for him. The thing is that the likes of Headland, Bell, Grant, and others have also wanted to return home after stints away from their home states, and yet, decent deals were managed.

Spin doctoring is one thing, but what Harrington said was crap.

I bit of spin doctoring maybe, but reading between the lines it does seemsthat pickett and his manager have put the squeeze on us at the last moment.

Otherwise, surely we would have asked for a higher pick than #35 given that PA got #8. PA may well have countered that they had to pick up Pickett's salary next year.

Who knows. Want I really want is an objective assessment of Leigh Brown.

 

[Z_K]

Originally posted by Karanicolas




Want I really want is an objective assessment of Leigh Brown.

You are not likely to get it.

West Coast fans say he is crap because he played for Freo.

Freo fans now say he is crap cos he doesn't play for Freo.

Supporters of Melbourne clubs say he is crap because he now plays for North.

 

[shmardin]

Byron only won one game for us last year and although the trade is not ideal it is good considering that Byron's value might have gone down by the end of next year when he would have DEFINATELY GONE HOME.......
we wouldnt have as much bargaining power and i doubt Leigh Brown would be available.....
he is a #5 pick with the attributes of a true shinboner who will fit the club perfectly....

 

[kelman]

We may need backmen, there may have been a possibility that Pickett would leave at the end of next year, but in the end that was really a terrible trade for us. i think anyone who says otherwise is simply fooling themselves, or looking on the bright side (which is not a bad attribute, and one that all Roos suppourters have needed recently).

I would rather have given up pick 11 to freo for Leigh Brown if we thought a key backman was so vital. Pickett may have thought he wanted to leave now, but he hadn't even played under laidley yet and given his talent he could hardly have played a worse year, so his value wouldn't have dropped by much.

I think we got dudded on our trades, but we accepted that because of our much talked about move towards youth. We have drafts picks, so it will be OK. I wanted laids, but i am just very wary of a full on youth policy if it costs you guys like Byron pickett. I don't like the way everything has been handled. Hopefully our recruiters believe the draft is a lot stronger than seems to be reported. We cannot afford to end up a team that is constantly on the bottom of the ladder. For other supporters it means embarrassment and teasing. For us it can mean non-existence.
At present it seems to me that too much falls on Harvey, Archer, Stevens and Simmo and the expectation that the kids will come through.

I hope you know what you are doing North.

 

[Groucho]

It's possible that Laidley didn't rate Byron as highly as some of us do. When it all boils down he was a $400k half forward who could be spasmodically brilliant and very tough,which is what we'll miss most. But let's face it he could no longer play in defence,where he made his name,once opposition coaches figured him out and he didn't get himself fit enough to play on the ball where most of us thought he'd be sensational. I'll miss him terribly but maybe Laidley,by being objective and unemotional about it,has made an astute decision.

 

[kelman]

Seems that every one else in footy seems to rate him, so i don't know why laidley wouldn't.

Was he on $400K? I don't know if it was that much.

Norwich Rising Star.
All Australian
Most intimidating player in the AFL when you are going for the ball.
Lightning speed.
Beautiful kick.


We should have got more.