Embarassing

[eastaugh36]

u canat blame Knights, geez remeber u guys have been pathetic the last 2 yrs, sheedys obcession with trying to win a 5th flag and drafting blokes like Allan, Zantuck, Cole, Campo, murphy, Alvey, michael Heffernan etc is the sole reason u guys r where u at now, have to give knights2-3 yrs at least to draft some more kids, get rid of the dead wood like jj, pev etc, Sheedy did so much good at that club winning 4 flags and all but geez he really left the clubs playing list in the shi t thats 4sure and that isnt knights fault, get some good kids in the next 2drafts and things can change for the better!

That's a cop-out and you know it. What did those recycled players cost us?? Not alot. Sometimes you have to take a risk, not every one is going to be a John Barnes,Paul Barnard story. No excuses can be made for today's performance. It was a disgrace.

 

[tockley]

Look we all what the same thing essendon to be a powerhouse team like we are use to been iam 26 years of age and this would be the lowest point ever in my life.Everyone has a point some blame sheeds some blame dodoro some blame board level and some blame jackson you all know what i think about the last 10 months .Our club is fast becoming the joke of the afl my mates have been giving it to me ever since knights took over maybe fair maybe not but at the momement it is a disgrace there is know excuse to lose by 91 pts it simply is not the essendon we love and respect but things can change but with knights iam not confident i hope he proves me wrong

 

[tockley]

ant 555 in 2006 we lost eight games by under 20 pts big difference bro we are now getting pumped by 10 goals 4 week in a row

 

[rainman06]

this is getting very embarassing.

 

[monty1104]

I cant see how any of us can be embarassed. Essendon is the team we follow. I will never be embarrassed by them, nor will I be embarrassed to support them. I will go to uni tomorrow sporting my Essendon guernsey, just as I do every monday. The embarrassing thing are those Essendon "supporters" out there calling for the sacking of Knights. Sure he has a bit to learn, but so does any new coach.

 

[ManWithNoName]

Absolutely pathetic performance. Abysmal beyond description. Hopefully the players are the ones embarrased because they were plain unworthy of wearing the jumper today.

Don't drop anyone Knighter (Except Nat Rat coming back in). Send them all back out there and make them earn back the respect they lost today. Show some ____ing pride in the jumper next week. Start a brawl if you have to. Just show you boys give a flying ____.

 

[Red Black and Blue]

We all pretty much knew we'd lose but not like that. We need some experience in the midfield. I've said it for a month now but JJ needs to be playing. Continual hammerings are counter productive for the young blokes.

Agree about JJ, we need hardness in the centre, look at Hawks/Sydney they have ball winners all over the midfield and allow the run to come from the backline. Next week I would hope for a midfield with JJ/Mcveigh/Watson/Hislop/Lonergan/Monfries/Myers all getting serious rotation through the engine room.

 

[Pav for AA]

Thought this thread was about Stanton.

I dont think he deserves that number on his back.

 

[mxett]

Whilst I agree we need to try and stay positive, I also agree that our last 4 or 5 games have just been embarrassing. Injuries aside, they have been at the lowest end of AFL standard that I can remember.

We are just not even in the contest, not even close. Getting smashed by 10 plus goals regularly. Looking insipid in almost all 1 on 1 contests.

I can seriously see us getting the spoon at the moment. WC and Freo will win some home games. Their home ground advantage will ensure that. All that needs to happen is the Dees win a few, against us for example, and it will be ours.

But, what now?? Throw some of the older senior players (aka JJ, Pev) back in the mix so we lose by 6 goals instead of 12?

Would that be a step forward?

I think we need to face the facts that the gap between our aging champs (such as Lloyd, Lucas, Fletcher), and the young up and coming players (reimers, Lonegan, Jetta, Houli, Ryder etc..) is what's killing us.

We have very few talented players in the mid-aged group, very few. Therefore, if the youngsters play inconsistantly, and are just pushed aside like we are seeing, it leaves too much for the few senior champs we have.

I think we need to face the facts that these EMBARRASSING performances could last 2 or 3 years before even begin to look competitive again, atleast on a consistant basis.

Hold on to your bomber beenie, this is going to get rough.

 

[Smyth94]

Embarrassing is perhaps a little harsh...

We were in the game half way through the third quarter and that was after not scoring a goal in the first - so our players did show some fight.

I think its time people start realising that we're not going to be able to compete (for four quarters) with better sides. End of Story.

Is it really that hard to see why we're getting whipped? Young players in the squad who have barely played 5 games playing on dual brownlow medalists? Come on.

Look at the bodies we've thrown into the midfield - Hislop, Myers, Reimers, Jetta and so on...all far too under-developed.

JJ definitely needs to come in, we need more hardness in there.

 

[Johnnyprinias]

Guys, take it easy. What did we expect, it was boys against men on sunday. We played well for just over a quarter and a half but were smashed. Their hard bodies and the way they play the game it was always going to take a toll on our kids. You could see at the stoppages that they were smashing us but this is were we should be proud, we kept on trying in there. Yes we got beaten and more often than not they won the clearances but at least we kept trying. I can see in a few years when our kids have 50 or more games under their belts they will start to smash their veteran bodies. Angus monfries and the way he butchers the ball is sad to see as well as laycocks lazyness to get to contests and do something. But looking at the 'younger' brigade weve got a lot to look forward too. We just have to hang in there until then. I dont know maybe i was watching a different game, but as i watching it and trying not to chuck up i could see the positives. So should we.

 

[Bomber Stu]

u canat blame Knights, geez remeber u guys have been pathetic the last 2 yrs, sheedys obcession with trying to win a 5th flag and drafting blokes like Allan, Zantuck, Cole, Campo, murphy, Alvey, michael Heffernan etc is the sole reason u guys r where u at now, have to give knights2-3 yrs at least to draft some more kids, get rid of the dead wood like jj, pev etc, Sheedy did so much good at that club winning 4 flags and all but geez he really left the clubs playing list in the shi t thats 4sure and that isnt knights fault, get some good kids in the next 2drafts and things can change for the better!

Sad but true, Sheeds last contract extension was a mistake. Disagree on Alvey being put in with the others. Plus we have been the loser on some high draft picks.

Good some good kids now, give it 2 years

 

[Merv]

Agree about JJ, we need hardness in the centre, look at Hawks/Sydney they have ball winners all over the midfield and allow the run to come from the backline. Next week I would hope for a midfield with JJ/Mcveigh/Watson/Hislop/Lonergan/Monfries/Myers all getting serious rotation through the engine room.

You talk about JJ for hardness at the clearances, yet the clearances were 44 - 38, which i would consider to be exceptionally good against a team as good at clearances as Sydney and we had Watson that didn't play

 

[bomberstomake8]

You talk about JJ for hardness at the clearances, yet the clearances were 44 - 38, which i would consider to be exceptionally good against a team as good at clearances as Sydney and we had Watson that didn't play

agree that was our best area, we just didnt move the ball quickly enough into our forward line imo.. we stopped too often on the wings, lloyd pretty much had 3 to contend with all day, with sydney you need to move the ball quickly to beat the flood we didnt do that..

clearences however were very good largely due to the fact we actually had more then 1 in and under player in the side..
i would like the clearence stats from our players if anyone got them, who had the most?
hislop, lonergan and mcveigh always put there body on the line in a stoppage and hislop and mcveigh would have had to have a fair few clearences.. stanton did a lot better in that role aswell.

i think JJ and pev will only play 1 more game for the season adn that will be a fairwell match towards the end of the year..


on a seperate note how long do we think lucas will be away for now? should only be another 2 or 3 matches shouldnt it? i hoping he is back for the hawks, ohh i would give my left nut for us to inflict the first hawthorn defeat this season

 

[Smyth94]

You talk about JJ for hardness at the clearances, yet the clearances were 44 - 38, which i would consider to be exceptionally good against a team as good at clearances as Sydney and we had Watson that didn't play

Yep did very well in the clearances - at one point Ox stated that "Essendon need to start winning the clearances" only to have the stat come up which read clearances: "Essendon 16; Sydney 8" what a goose

What's killing us is our possession count...way, way, way too low. Sydney almost got a 100 more possessions, this has been the trend in all of our big losses, if we can't find the footy more often we're going to continue to get pumped.

Today highlighted how much Watson means to the side - it was (25) possessions we missed out on today and countless more he gives to our other players such as Stanton, Lovett and so on.

 

[ant555]

ant 555 in 2006 we lost eight games by under 20 pts big difference bro we are now getting pumped by 10 goals 4 week in a row

Losing is losing. We still lost 14 in a row in 2006. You keeep going off about the coach but at this stage it would not matter if it where Hardwicke, Thompson or Williams in the coach's box. All of them would be working on changing the game plan and with an ordinary list these problems are going to happen.

 

[Smokin]

Losing is losing. We still lost 14 in a row in 2006. You keeep going off about the coach but at this stage it would not matter if it where Hardwicke, Thompson or Williams in the coach's box. All of them would be working on changing the game plan and with an ordinary list these problems are going to happen.

I stated this re Knights the day he was appointed. With his absolute horrible (for a head AFL coach appointment) record, coupled with the fact he has never coached above VFL level (not even as an assistant, absolutely remarkable) that if things didnt go well pretty much straight off the bat, the poor guy will attract more and more pressure.

Simply put, there is nothing I can hang my hat on that convinces me Knights has us on the correct path, or that he knows what he is doing. I find the blind faith in him mystifying really. I dont know why so many look to Hawthorn, as Knights' approach is more Denis Pagan than it is Clarkson. Just pie in the sky wishfull thinking IMO.

At worst, hard Harwick achieved similar, at the very least we could all sit back and say, well he went through this at Hawthorn, was an assistant taking a team from zero to almost hero blah blah. Clarkson had similar runs on the board before he took over etc.

At least something.

With Knights, we have nothing. And it is this which is the problem IMO. There seems to be 2 types of Essendon supporters, those bagging Knights and those with absolute blind faith in Knights. Knights has not done the hard yards as an assistant or coach. He has simply coached poor teams. From all reports was horrific at SANFL level, ordinary at best at VFL level and that pretty much sums him up. On-field success hardly followed him around.

IMO our club shouldnt be in this position. The selection was incorrect, it will be a fluke if it works, because there simpy wasnt enough real data to go on. Forget interviews, forget personaltiy, coaching simply requires experience more so than anything else. Experience at AFL level, Knights has none - only VFL level and below, and it was hardly inspiring.

Add to this very questionable practises such as signing Dyson to 2 years (WHY THE HECK 2? What was wrong with 1?), his abysmal effort on Anzac day etc, and the confidense in him shrinks and shrinks. Right now, we are injury struck and does make it very hard. I very much feel sorry for Knighta right now. But, as much as I wanted Sheedy gone, we would never capitulate week after week after week like this under his rule.

I would love nothing more to be proved wrong, but I am not seeing it. The blind faith is fine, we are all die hard fans after all, but surely common sense will start to filter through?

 

[kelvin_sheedy]

A few things we have to realise. We have had 0 chance of winning the past few weeks with so many kids in the side.

Here's some interesting stats:

Sydney Attribute Essendon
26yr 3mth Age 23yr 6mth
117.5 Games 73.5

Total Players By Games
Sydney Games Essendon
4 Less than 50 12
8 50 to 99 3
3 100 to 149 3
7 150 or more 4

Essendon Attribute Port Adelaide
23yr 0mth Age 24yr 6mth
59.1 Games 81.1

Total Players By Games
Essendon Games Port Adelaide
11 Less than 50 8
6 50 to 99 7
3 100 to 149 4
2 150 or more 3

We can't seem to have a settled senior core out there with a few kids in for game time.

If we have no injuries this week and McPhee, NLM and Watson come back in then we might play our best side for a while.

It will be embarrassing if we get belted by Richmond but I'm confident that we can put on a good show and actually beat them.

It is our season defining game.

 

[Johnnyprinias]

A few things we have to realise. We have had 0 chance of winning the past few weeks with so many kids in the side.

Here's some interesting stats:

Sydney Attribute Essendon
26yr 3mth Age 23yr 6mth
117.5 Games 73.5

Total Players By Games
Sydney Games Essendon
4 Less than 50 12
8 50 to 99 3
3 100 to 149 3
7 150 or more 4

Essendon Attribute Port Adelaide
23yr 0mth Age 24yr 6mth
59.1 Games 81.1

Total Players By Games
Essendon Games Port Adelaide
11 Less than 50 8
6 50 to 99 7
3 100 to 149 4
2 150 or more 3

We can't seem to have a settled senior core out there with a few kids in for game time.

If we have no injuries this week and McPhee, NLM and Watson come back in then we might play our best side for a while.

It will be embarrassing if we get belted by Richmond but I'm confident that we can put on a good show and actually beat them.

It is our season defining game.

Season over kelvin long time ago. Im agreeing with smokin. How long as essendon members can we put up with this crap? How long can we keep blaming the kids? How long can we keep supporting Knights?
Everyone has different ideas but time is the answer. And the way we have been playing it is no way near our season defining game. We are the joke of the AFL and have no one to blame but the people at the club. We will be lucky to be competitive i reckon. I hope im wrong.

 

[ant555]

I stated this re Knights the day he was appointed. With his absolute horrible (for a head AFL coach appointment) record, coupled with the fact he has never coached above VFL level (not even as an assistant, absolutely remarkable) that if things didnt go well pretty much straight off the bat, the poor guy will attract more and more pressure.

Simply put, there is nothing I can hang my hat on that convinces me Knights has us on the correct path, or that he knows what he is doing. I find the blind faith in him mystifying really. I dont know why so many look to Hawthorn, as Knights' approach is more Denis Pagan than it is Clarkson. Just pie in the sky wishfull thinking IMO.

At worst, hard Harwick achieved similar, at the very least we could all sit back and say, well he went through this at Hawthorn, was an assistant taking a team from zero to almost hero blah blah. Clarkson had similar runs on the board before he took over etc.

At least something.

With Knights, we have nothing. And it is this which is the problem IMO. There seems to be 2 types of Essendon supporters, those bagging Knights and those with absolute blind faith in Knights. Knights has not done the hard yards as an assistant or coach. He has simply coached poor teams. From all reports was horrific at SANFL level, ordinary at best at VFL level and that pretty much sums him up. On-field success hardly followed him around.

IMO our club shouldnt be in this position. The selection was incorrect, it will be a fluke if it works, because there simpy wasnt enough real data to go on. Forget interviews, forget personaltiy, coaching simply requires experience more so than anything else. Experience at AFL level, Knights has none - only VFL level and below, and it was hardly inspiring.

Add to this very questionable practises such as signing Dyson to 2 years (WHY THE HECK 2? What was wrong with 1?), his abysmal effort on Anzac day etc, and the confidense in him shrinks and shrinks. Right now, we are injury struck and does make it very hard. I very much feel sorry for Knighta right now. But, as much as I wanted Sheedy gone, we would never capitulate week after week after week like this under his rule.

I would love nothing more to be proved wrong, but I am not seeing it. The blind faith is fine, we are all die hard fans after all, but surely common sense will start to filter through?

Who said anything about blind faith ????????????????????????????????????
I am not on record anywhere as saying that Knight's will be the be all and end all of coachs.All i have ever said is it will take time to sort the list and change the game plan. This is a given with any coach.
The only thing i am on record as saying is that something had to change. Our list is very ordinary and those making the most noise about it are the ones who have had the blinkers on and overated a lot of our players.
I was on record pre season saying that we where likely to go backwards this year. You cant develop a young side and expect results or honerable loss's. It doesn't work like that.
As for the crap you have just sprouted about Hardwicke . There was no guarantee that he would be doing any better. How can you say at least he went through it with the Hawks. That does not prove anything. Ross Lyon went through it with Sydeny yet he is finding that St.Kilda are not the Swans just the same as the Essendon list is not the Hawks. Who know if it will work with an unproven coach. Your argument is rubbish.
People pot Knights record with Bendigo but he managed to get a side that never plays finals and has a very poor VFL list into the finals twice. People quickly forget that Bendigo had a pretty strong finals run in 2005 and won finals.In 2006 he had nothing to work with becasue from round 2 to the end of the year he never had any more than 10 Essendon players in his side.
Last year the side made the finals but only had 7 Essendon players playing in the Elim final and three of the where injured before 3/4 time. It is a bit hard to stop a side from running over you when you have no bench and only 15 fit players on the ground.
Your comments on Clarkson are just as stupid. For the first two years everyone laughed at what he was trying to achieved and potted the Hawks for not going after Eade or a proven coach. Now that he is looking ok you do a back flip and say that becasue he was involved as an assistant with Port he was always going to come good. What a load of crap. I would guarnatee that you where laughing just as much as anyone else at the Hawks when Clarkson was in his first year.
You have seen just a minute of Knights as a senior coach with a poor list and several key players missing through injury.He may not ever be any good but you can not make that call now. Like i keep saying i doubt anyone would be getting better results if they where in control.Lets face it we have a crap list , or recruting and spending in the football department has been questionalble since 2000. We stuffed around for three years (2003-2005) trying to fill the holes in the list with recycled players and this is the result of it. Most people outside Eseendon know the problem. This is why they keep tipping us to finish bottom four. Our supporters bitch and moan about their judgment but we keep finishing well down the ladder.
What we are experiecning now is a result of the club running very poorly in reguards to football matters for several years. Dont talk to me about having blind faith , i am one of a very few that have seen the writing on the wall and have not tipped us to play finals for the last 4 seasons. Those who could not see something like this coming towards the end of 2004 are the ones who have blind faith.
Knights may not be the right choice for coach but he is making the hard decisions that need to be made. Lots of young players are playing senior footy. Some older players have been told they are not in the future plans. We are starting to rebuild.Have we got the right match day coach ? who knows. We may not have but at least some sort of new development plan is being put in place. We have had to start again. We are currently doing what we should have been doing in 2004. It may take two, three,four or five years to build up a decent side again. Knights may well not be around then.
Someone aksed me at pre season training in January if we had the right bloke for the job and my reply was he probably won't be our next premiership coach but he will be the guy who will make some tough decisions on the list in the next couple of years and the young players will get a chance to play.My final comment on it was unless three or four of the young players stood up beyond all expectations we would struggle to win more than 6 or 7 games.
Have i been proven wrong so far ?

 

[tockley]

Iam with smokin as you all could imagine he is 100% correct that there are knights supporters and people who have no time for him for me i have not one bit of faith in him and its not about sheeds should have stayed i think it was time for a change but not with knights

 

[ant555]

Iam with smokin as you all could imagine he is 100% correct that there are knights supporters and people who have no time for him for me i have not one bit of faith in him and its not about sheeds should have stayed i think it was time for a change but not with knights

So if Hardwicke got the job and traded Lucas ,Fletcher and a few others we would not be getting belted by 10 goals every week ?
Seriously the view you are taking is so short sighted that if you dropped your pants you would no be seeing your pecker.

 

[BomberAce7]

Agree Ant!!!

 

[TheDon35]

You talk about JJ for hardness at the clearances, yet the clearances were 44 - 38, which i would consider to be exceptionally good against a team as good at clearances as Sydney and we had Watson that didn't play

Couldn't agree with you more. Hislop in particular was excellent in close. With Watson to come back into the side, i'm happy with our performance here.

I think we all need to relax a bit. Given that we've had a few injuries we were always going to be up against it results wise. I'm happy that Knights is at least prepared to sacrifice short term success in an effort to get our young blokes up to speed.

Hissy, Reimers, Myers all showed great signs again. Dempsey, Gumby to come back into the side and more output from Houli and Jetta and we are right on track toward building the next premiership side.

 

[Smokin]

Ant, I was responding to your assertion that any other coach would be in the same boat.

Dunno what you were going on about there? Clarkson? well his relative lack of experience probably was the catalyst for a lot of discontent at the time. But still, he had more on the board than Knights. Lyon? he proves my point. St. Kilda have gone backwards (it seems) under him, but his history/background is the reason he has been given so much time and still many have faith in him.

Knights - he hasnt instilled much faith in many fans since day dot, hence the wolves are out earlier than otherwise.

My argument isnt "rubbish" - you just didnt understand it. I never said Hardwick was a guarantee, or Clarkson or Jesus Christ. I actually think it is very flawed to look at the hawthorn model, because that method is pretty much a closed door already IMO.

Wasnt my point though.