emerging spinners

[LondonCalling]

Yesterday's Herald Sun.

 

[LukeParkerno1]

Watch Smith's innings today guys- he is a gun batsman first and foremost.

 

[WattsGoodForYou]

At the moment maybe, but fact is we have seen how ordinary Krejza is against good players (Sth Africa). I'll take a leg spinner over an off spinner.

So players can not improve in your eyes?

 

[Yoda_]

At the moment maybe, but fact is we have seen how ordinary Krejza is against good players (Sth Africa). I'll take a leg spinner over an off spinner.

Hm... Interesting BombersNo1.

Krejza took 13 wickets against the best players of spin in the world, on their own friendly doctored wickets to suit their play.

Might I add that he dismissed:

Sehwag (Bowled)
Dravid (Caught Bat Pad - Katich)
VVS Laxman (Caught Behind - /Haddin)
Ganguly (Caught Point?/Slip? - Clarke)
M.S Dhoni (Bowled)
Khan (Bowled)
Mishra (Bowled)
Sharma (Caught Bat Pad - Katich)

VVS Laxman (Bowled)
Ganguly (Caught & Bowled)
MS Dhoni (Caught?? - Hussey)
Khan (Caught Behind - Haddin)

So you are saying he is no good because he was not taking wickets on tracks that did not suit him? Yes he struggled in his couple of games following, he deseved to have an extended run in the senior side, circa Nathan Hauritz. For the record, I think Hauritz is doing a fine job.

 

[LukeParkerno1]

I rather look at the way he bowled in Perth, and also his mediocre Shield recod. Krejza is AVERAGE. He won't win many tests, and despite how "well" he bowled in India..we got thrashed! He went for 400 odd runs getting those wickets..at his best he is bgoing at 35 runs a wicket, way too high.

Give me a leggie over an offie in Australia. Off spinners have struggled for years on our tracks, even Murali struggled and he is probably the best one we have seen. Hauritz is doing his job right now- tie down an end pick up the odd wicket and let the quicks do the damage.

If you go 1/200 odd in Australia you don't deserve another crack, you should work out you can't bowl meat pies in Australia.

Long term who is the answer? For me it is Cullen Bailey as he is a wicketaker but I'd play 2 spinners with Steve Smith batting at 5 or 6 to help Bailey. Jon Holland the smokie but needs to turn it a bit more.

 

[LukeParkerno1]

So players can not improve in your eyes?

His first class record has barely improved in the last 5 years- averages 40 odd.

 

[SBI]

At his current rate, Bailey wouldn't even win a Futures match for the SA seconds. He is a long way off being first class quality at the moment without even considering him in the international arena.

 

[LukeParkerno1]

Every single other spinner is worse, including Krejza. Lets not get blinded by what happened on a raging turner in India! List the leggies, pick 2. Pretty simple. I don't like off spinners in Australian sides, they don't do well. Pick Smith to bat in the top 6 and pick the next best leggie- in my view Bailey.

 

[eth-dog]

Every single other spinner is worse, including Krejza. Lets not get blinded by what happened on a raging turner in India! List the leggies, pick 2. Pretty simple. I don't like off spinners in Australian sides, they don't do well. Pick Smith to bat in the top 6 and pick the next best leggie- in my view Bailey.

Every other spinner? How is a guy who can't even make the first XI of South Australia, THE worst state side in Australia, with the second best spin pitch in Australia, better than Heal, who gets a game at the least spin-friendly pitch in Australia, Krezja, who gets a game at Tasmania, which is a batters paradise, Simpson, who plays on the second worst spin track in Australia and Smith, getting a game at arguably the best state side in Australia?

 

[Chris25]

I don't rate Smith as highly as some. He looks to be a very promising batsman, but I can't see him making the Australian Test team as a bowler. I could see him playing a Brad Hogg type role in the ODI team though.

Cullen Bailey is the best spinner in Australia in my opinion, but obviously you can't pick him until he cements a spot in the Redbacks team. He isn't being gifted games just because he is a spinner, and is actually working for his spot in the team. When he starts showing why he should be picked in every game, then I think we will see him around the Australian setup.

If Smith was to work his way into the Test team (probably by batting at 6), then I would consider Holland as the specialist spinner. I like the idea of having a leggie and an orthodox spinner in the same team, I think it would give a lot more versatility than two leggies bowling together.

Basically though, Bailey and Holland would be the only two young specialist spinners I would consider in the foreseeable future. Unless of course, Dan Cullen can regain his form from a couple of season ago....

 

[Heisenberg_]

SA- Cullen Bailey is the best prospect long term for a test spinner. Has all the tools, now starting to get wickets regularly.

This summer he has played 4 games and taken 5 wickets@49.8

Thats real impressive
He will never ever get close to the Test side

 

[Chris25]

He has actually played just the 2 first class games for his 5 wickets. Smith, on the other hand, has played 4 games for his 6 wickets.

I don't think anyone is suggesting that Bailey should be next in line for the Australian team, but he has the most potential in my opinion. Saying something like 'he will never ever get close to the Test side' is pretty stupid, considering he is only 24 and has already held a Cricket Australia contract....

 

[Heisenberg_]

I agree that he has potential, but the only was it will be realised is if he leaves SA, which I really do not think will happen.
He has gone backwards so fast.

 

[LukeParkerno1]

Every other spinner? How is a guy who can't even make the first XI of South Australia, THE worst state side in Australia, with the second best spin pitch in Australia, better than Heal, who gets a game at the least spin-friendly pitch in Australia, Krezja, who gets a game at Tasmania, which is a batters paradise, Simpson, who plays on the second worst spin track in Australia and Smith, getting a game at arguably the best state side in Australia?

It shows how bad our spin stocks are at the moment, Heal is a containing spinner nothing more- although I do rate him in ODI's. Krejza's record is average, Simpson is a batsman who bowls a bit, not a frontline spinner. I am not saying Bailey is ready now but in 12-24 months he should be ready. Steve Smith is a batting all rounder.

 

[sonson]

There's a kid playing for W.A who Shane Warne rates as the most promising leg spinner in the land.

Josh Mangan, think he's about 22 and can more than bat a bit.

Moody is intent on driving the side into the dirt by playing too many dibbly dobblers.

Didnt he take the most wickets in the WACA pennants league for a spinner in the last 50 years at an average of something like 16?

Watched him play against NSW in a second XI game last year and he peeled of a century and took 8 wickets.

I too, dont understand how Aaron Heal plays, last start he bowls 25 overs for 0/125, and this kid keeps picking up bags in the 1's?

I dont get W.A cricket at the moment, something is seriously wrong at the top. The article in the West talking about Smith vs Mangan as two of the countries best emerging spinners was interesting in the fact that Warne rated Mangan as a better bowler and Smith better with the bat.

Both bowl leg spin and Warne, the greatest wrist spinner ever to grace the field rated Mangan as the best young wrist spinner in the land.

Meanwhile Moody plays David Bandy?????

 

[MaccaKnowsBest]

To be honest, it's rather depressing that Australia doesn't have at least 5 top quality, match-winning spinners given the presence of Warne. Weren't there shitloads of kids out there turning to legspin when Warne dominated?? Yeah, obviously Warne is a legend and will probably not be topped, but you would have thought there would have been a few top quality leg spinners ready in the wings by the time Warne retired. Who's at fault?

 

[The 747]

To be honest, it's rather depressing that Australia doesn't have at least 5 top quality, match-winning spinners given the presence of Warne. Weren't there shitloads of kids out there turning to legspin when Warne dominated?? Yeah, obviously Warne is a legend and will probably not be topped, but you would have thought there would have been a few top quality leg spinners ready in the wings by the time Warne retired. Who's at fault?

Not so easy to bowl leg spin you know.

There have been and continue to be a lot of leg spinning kids but they don't make it through grade cricket. You have to understand Warne was an absolute freak, a player who has come along once in a hundred years of cricket by all nations. I am sure there are lots of kids trying but they just aren't good enough.

 

[MaccaKnowsBest]

Not so easy to bowl leg spin you know.

There have been and continue to be a lot of leg spinning kids but they don't make it through grade cricket. You have to understand Warne was an absolute freak, a player who has come along once in a hundred years of cricket by all nations. I am sure there are lots of kids trying but they just aren't good enough.

Oh I agree that leg spinning is hard to master and Warne was a freak. I also understand that there have been plenty of kids with potential. But still, Australia had what, 10+ years to develop a new generation of spinners? It's still pretty disappointing.

 

[aussie1st]

I don't rate Smith as highly as some. He looks to be a very promising batsman, but I can't see him making the Australian Test team as a bowler. I could see him playing a Brad Hogg type role in the ODI team though.

Cullen Bailey is the best spinner in Australia in my opinion, but obviously you can't pick him until he cements a spot in the Redbacks team. He isn't being gifted games just because he is a spinner, and is actually working for his spot in the team. When he starts showing why he should be picked in every game, then I think we will see him around the Australian setup.

If Smith was to work his way into the Test team (probably by batting at 6), then I would consider Holland as the specialist spinner. I like the idea of having a leggie and an orthodox spinner in the same team, I think it would give a lot more versatility than two leggies bowling together.

Basically though, Bailey and Holland would be the only two young specialist spinners I would consider in the foreseeable future. Unless of course, Dan Cullen can regain his form from a couple of season ago....

You have to be patient with spinners. I don't know how hes going in Grade cricket but if SA are dropping him after 1 poor display in Shield cricket then hes never going to make it. He needs to be given a string of games.

 

[Damon_3388]

shannon tubb was in my sticker album from 97/98! in the comm. bank academy squad. thought the moniker of 'chinaman bowler' was very odd at the time.

Like WattsGoodForYou, I had this sticker album too Not sure what I did with it, but I remember that Brett Lee was part of that same Academy Squad.

 

[The 747]

Oh I agree that leg spinning is hard to master and Warne was a freak. I also understand that there have been plenty of kids with potential. But still, Australia had what, 10+ years to develop a new generation of spinners? It's still pretty disappointing.

Well it is disappointing in that we would all love to have a quality leggie playing for us - I am sure CA has been doing all it can, Warne has been doing all he can but the fact is if you don't have the cattle you can't get no milk.

 

[Yoda_]

Australia A (NSW) didnt get the chance to develop a leggie, they had Warne's assistant (MacGill) in place already for his (Warne's) whole career.

 

[MaccaKnowsBest]

Well it is disappointing in that we would all love to have a quality leggie playing for us - I am sure CA has been doing all it can, Warne has been doing all he can but the fact is if you don't have the cattle you can't get no milk.

So what's the point of the new reality tv series we have heard about?

 

[Cleavy]

Well it is disappointing in that we would all love to have a quality leggie playing for us - I am sure CA has been doing all it can, Warne has been doing all he can but the fact is if you don't have the cattle you can't get no milk.

So what's the point of the new reality tv series we have heard about?

manufacturing a spinner from powdered milk?

 

[Ill Chicken]

The reality is there are good spinners out there, it just comes down to being bowled a lot overs ie not neglected by the captain and also comes down to their personal drive to bowl a lot of overs. The hard thing about grade cricket these days is that it is orientated to part-timers more than an outright spinner who will get a guaranteed 20 overs a game and that has a captain who can set a field so if the first few aren't so flash, he can get through it.

Sam McNeil could be a prospect from SA. He is young and has been taking wickets grade wise.