Enfin de la F1 après la semaine du football de l'enfer ... French F1 2019

imadodgyumpire

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Booo, keep driving it like you stole it Dan don't let the haters get you down.
Spoken like an anonymous forum poster who doesn't see the bigger picture. Goes to bed after the race, then to work the following morning. Got nfi and is worried about how much he's entertained.

He makes one move and goes off track by a whisker and you are all up in arms about him driving like a hero,
It's not one time he goes off track, it's two in 500m. Obviously you haven't realised the season started in March and there's been 8 races so far. He's ****** up 4 times this year. That's a pattern he'd want to stop pretty quickly.

the fact he goes for those moves and generally sticks them
"Generally sticks them" mean you're doing it wrong a lot of the time. He was always making them happen before, and now he isn't. If he continues to **** it up, it erodes his reputation.

is what makes him the guy who can win a GP with the 3rd best car and the more he does it in a Renault the more likely he will stick them as well.
You talk like winning a race in the 3rd best car is like some extraordinary achievement. You go and do your history, winning in the 3rd best car is common. In fact, even some moderately talented drivers have done it. If Ricciardo doesn't maintain a high level, even his past achievement will get lost in amongst the crap he's produced.

No one at Ferrari or Mercedes will care who finishes 7th in the WC, it is for all intensive purposes pointless.
You're wrong. They'll give a s**t about anyone of substance. In fact, MB gave a s**t about the guy who finished 8th in 2016. After 8 races, Bottas had 37pts in 2016. That's miles ahead of what Ricciardo has done this year.

If Ricciardo had 37pts now, he'd affirm that he's genuinely a WC prospect in a s**t car. Now, he's ******* up and Verstappen is the embodiment of consistency. That's also the crap Ricciardo has to fight against. Picking off Norris wasn't worth it.

But you think a 29yo racing in the front half of F1 is like a young kid playing juniors cricket "Go on son. Get in there and have a go!"
 

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imadodgyumpire

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"As soon as you no longer go for a gap, you are no longer a racing driver"
You're giving me that crap justification. Senna was saying that to Jackie Stewart, who was questioning him. Is Jackie Stewart not a racing driver?

Go back and look at all the races Senna settled for an easy podium finish, particularly in his WC years. It happened a lot.

A
s you say, they don't care if Bottas is doing well, perhaps if he took a few more risks he might actually be doing better.
When did I say (MB) don't care if Bottas is doing well?

Which races would he might have been doing better if he took a risk?

SPeaking of Bottas. If you transferred Ricciardo's performance this year in an MB. The second MB might be 3rd or even 4th the way he's going.
 

happy_eagle

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Spoken like an anonymous forum poster who doesn't see the bigger picture. Goes to bed after the race, then to work the following morning. Got no idea and is worried about how much he's entertained.
Racing is entertainment though?
All sports are entertainment.

I agree with you though on Daniel. I reckon he is still getting used to the car. In a more nimble Red Bull, he would have been able to pull off some of the moves like he tried on Norris last race. He's trying the same late braking heroics, but he doesn't have the car to support it (he's even said that braking is tough in the Renault)
 

imadodgyumpire

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Racing is entertainment though?
All sports are entertainment.
I have experience answering this question due to having to answer all the supercars fans on other forums.

Racing/sport is not entertainment. However, people can find it entertaining. A concert/movie/theatre is entertainment. Racing/sports are an exhibition of prowess.

I agree with you though on Daniel. I reckon he is still getting used to the car. In a more nimble Red Bull, he would have been able to pull off some of the moves like he tried on Norris last race. He's trying the same late braking heroics, but he doesn't have the car to support it (he's even said that braking is tough in the Renault)
Damn right. And you've added to my point with the knowledge of the character of the cars.

Before, he was cracking boundaries through the covers on any length on a flat deck. Now he's throwing the bat at the wide one on a seaming wicket, and knicking them.

Don't play that shot for now. Play straight. Keep the good balls out. Put the bad one away. That's all he has to do at Renault. The sooner, the better.
 

skam85

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SPeaking of Bottas. If you transferred Ricciardo's performance this year in an MB. The second MB might be 3rd or even 4th the way he's going.
Not correct. Mercedes are racing nobody and have very little competition.
Dan is racing 13 other cars.
At worst he'd have the same amount of points as Bottas.
 

imadodgyumpire

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If Ricciardo's crapness was transferred into the MB, he'd be miles off Bottas. Bottas is getting beaten by Hamilton having the best start to his career ever (Probably a record points for this point in the season). If he and Bottas were in the MB this season, Bottas would be leading the championship comfortably.
 

happy_eagle

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If Ricciardo's crapness was transferred into the MB, he'd be miles off Bottas. Bottas is getting beaten by Hamilton having the best start to his career ever (Probably a record points for this point in the season). If he and Bottas were in the MB this season, Bottas would be leading the championship comfortably.
Unless the crapness is a result of the car he's currently in. In which case you'd imagine he'd have no trouble overtaking and braking late in a MB
 

hey shorty

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If Ricciardo's crapness was transferred into the MB, he'd be miles off Bottas. Bottas is getting beaten by Hamilton having the best start to his career ever (Probably a record points for this point in the season). If he and Bottas were in the MB this season, Bottas would be leading the championship comfortably.
Rubbish.

If Dan was in the Merc he would be right up Lewys backside, possibly in front. He's a better driver than Bottas.
 

hey shorty

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You're giving me that crap justification. Senna was saying that to Jackie Stewart, who was questioning him. Is Jackie Stewart not a racing driver?

Go back and look at all the races Senna settled for an easy podium finish, particularly in his WC years. It happened a lot.

A
When did I say (MB) don't care if Bottas is doing well?

Which races would he might have been doing better if he took a risk?

SPeaking of Bottas. If you transferred Ricciardo's performance this year in an MB. The second MB might be 3rd or even 4th the way he's going.
Senna only settled after he was passed.

He drove some average cars well beyond their limits quite regularly, he even drove some very good cars beyond them.
 

imadodgyumpire

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Unless the crapness is a result of the car he's currently in.
It's not the car that turns right into the grass at the start in Australia and breaks the wing. It's not the car that tries to hold off Hulkenberg when he's a sitting duck, and clumsily tags Hulk. It's not the car that makes a failed move on Kvyat in Azerbaijan, then backs into him in a panic. It's not the car that makes the desperate move on Norris and fails. It's not the car that's on the right edge of the circuit behind Raikkonen, then decides to turn right off the track.

His situational awareness has been crap. And all it's doing is making him look silly.

In which case you'd imagine he'd have no trouble overtaking and braking late in a MB
The MB would be a better car. But there's more tension and more at stake when you're around the others, particularly your team (Even Bottas).

At RB, the psychology is easy. You're not under threat from the 4th best car for the season. You can go all out, and typically it's the other car that has more at stake in the passing move.
 

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imadodgyumpire

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Rubbish.

If Dan was in the Merc he would be right up Lewys backside, possibly in front. He's a better driver than Bottas.
It's not rubbish. You can say Ricciardo is better than Bottas. But that doesn't mean he's driving better this year. Bottas is where the MB should be, but is being overshadowed by Hamilton, who hasn't done anything wild this season. Ricciardo is nowhere near where the Renault should be. All things being fair, he's probably cost himself and the team 10-12pts. Which is a huge amount for the second tier teams.

If Ricciardo was in the MB this season. you can't say for certain he'd be right behind or ahead of Hamilton. The way he's going this year. If he were to be right up behind Hamilton is a race. He'd likely "go for it", and **** it up. Costing himself 18pts and conceding 25 to Hamilton.

This is exactly right.

Take more risks in a car you need to push beyond its limits.
Take more risks in a car that can't handle it. Fail, and look like a dumbarse.

"Push beyond its limits" is just an expression. It's not to be taken literally.

As far as Senna is concerend. We can go through all his races and wins. He was way more pragmatic than his reputation and outbursts suggests.
 

davis_756

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Spoken like an anonymous forum poster who doesn't see the bigger picture. Goes to bed after the race, then to work the following morning. Got no idea and is worried about how much he's entertained.
Yeah I leave for work at 6am 6 days a week, of course I am going to go to bed after a race that finishes at 1am my time.

It's not one time he goes off track, it's two in 500m. Obviously you haven't realised the season started in March and there's been 8 races so far. He's ****** up 4 times this year. That's a pattern he'd want to stop pretty quickly.
I count 3, Melbourne, Baku & France, give me some examples of him stuffing up every 2nd race in previous seasons to show me it is a pattern.

"Generally sticks them" mean you're doing it wrong a lot of the time. He was always making them happen before, and now he isn't. If he continues to **** it up, it erodes his reputation.
I count twice this year, can't remember previous to that where he out braked himself to class it as "a lot of the time"

You talk like winning a race in the 3rd best car is like some extraordinary achievement. You go and do your history, winning in the 3rd best car is common. In fact, even some moderately talented drivers have done it. If Ricciardo doesn't maintain a high level, even his past achievement will get lost in amongst the crap he's produced.

Common? lol name me any this side of sebastian vettel in a torro rosso.

You're wrong. They'll give a **** about anyone of substance. In fact, MB gave a **** about the guy who finished 8th in 2016. After 8 races, Bottas had 37pts in 2016. That's miles ahead of what Ricciardo has done this year.
So you honestly think the amount of points he had was the reason behind the decision to recruit him? Guess they f’ed up because he crumbles under pressure and will never win the title for them.

If Ricciardo had 37pts now, he'd affirm that he's genuinely a WC prospect in a **** car. Now, he's ******* up and Verstappen is the embodiment of consistency. That's also the crap Ricciardo has to fight against. Picking off Norris wasn't worth it.
No he wouldn't, winning 2 of the 1st 6 races last year and matching Vettel and Hamilton in a worse car did.
But you think a 29yo racing in the front half of F1 is like a young kid playing juniors cricket "Go on son. Get in there and have a go!"
And that was that.
 

imadodgyumpire

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Ok, forget those 3 (including skam) who don't like living in reality, want to blame everyone else, and think "having a go" is actual racing. Ricciardo has to be careful when to become a hero. Sometimes it's not worth it even if the odds look good.

-Norris started the last lap 7th, ended up 9th. He gets praised despite losing out because he had a failing car and Ricciardo get the blame for driving him off.
-Raikkonen started the last lap 9th, finished 7th. He'd have been stoked with 8th. But 7th? Happy days for Kimi!
-Hulkenberg started 10th, with he prospect of 1 pissy point and finishing behind his teammate. He ends up 8th with no skin off his nose, beats his teammate by 3 places and now equals points total despite being worse than him. All with the disadvantage of starting 5 places behind Ricciardo. That's gold!
-Ricciardo started 8th, somehow ends up 11th. If he got 7th, he wouldn't have been credited with it because people would've looked at Norris' failing car. All that he's going to be remembered for this race is being a clown and screwing up. For 7th nothing other than 7th place, it wasn't worth it.

With two guys behind him, he wasn't guaranteed 7th or 8th even if he cleanly passed Norris. In the process of passing someone, you lose momentum and slow yourself down having to deviate from the optimal line and speed throughout the sequence of corners. Even MB's lose time while lapping cars. A slight loss of momentum is what cost Dovi the win at Mugello. It was only as light break in momentum in passing Marquez, no big deal in isolation. But it was enough for Petrucci to get through and win. In having to avoid Petrucci, Dovi then lost his position back to Marquez.

So even if Ricciardo kept all four of his wheels within the track the whole time. He turns left to get Norris on the outside. He has to take a tighter, slower entry into the right hander, which would then lead to a slower exit. Even if he gets Norris cleanly exiting the corner, Raikkonen and Hulkenberg had uninterrupted runs through the chicane, Ricciardo would've been a sitting duck definitely from Raikkonen and maybe Hulkenberg. If just Raikkonen got him, then he puts in all the effort for 8th. Which is where he was in the first place.

The Racing Gods gave him a challenge, and he failed.
 

skam85

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Ok, forget those 3 (including skam) who don't like living in reality, want to blame everyone else, and think "having a go" is actual racing. Ricciardo has to be careful when to become a hero. Sometimes it's not worth it even if the odds look good.

-Norris started the last lap 7th, ended up 9th. He gets praised despite losing out because he had a failing car and Ricciardo get the blame for driving him off.
-Raikkonen started the last lap 9th, finished 7th. He'd have been stoked with 8th. But 7th? Happy days for Kimi!
-Hulkenberg started 10th, with he prospect of 1 pissy point and finishing behind his teammate. He ends up 8th with no skin off his nose, beats his teammate by 3 places and now equals points total despite being worse than him. All with the disadvantage of starting 5 places behind Ricciardo. That's gold!
-Ricciardo started 8th, somehow ends up 11th. If he got 7th, he wouldn't have been credited with it because people would've looked at Norris' failing car. All that he's going to be remembered for this race is being a clown and screwing up. For 7th nothing other than 7th place, it wasn't worth it.

With two guys behind him, he wasn't guaranteed 7th or 8th even if he cleanly passed Norris. In the process of passing someone, you lose momentum and slow yourself down having to deviate from the optimal line and speed throughout the sequence of corners. Even MB's lose time while lapping cars. A slight loss of momentum is what cost Dovi the win at Mugello. It was only as light break in momentum in passing Marquez, no big deal in isolation. But it was enough for Petrucci to get through and win. In having to avoid Petrucci, Dovi then lost his position back to Marquez.

So even if Ricciardo kept all four of his wheels within the track the whole time. He turns left to get Norris on the outside. He has to take a tighter, slower entry into the right hander, which would then lead to a slower exit. Even if he gets Norris cleanly exiting the corner, Raikkonen and Hulkenberg had uninterrupted runs through the chicane, Ricciardo would've been a sitting duck definitely from Raikkonen and maybe Hulkenberg. If just Raikkonen got him, then he puts in all the effort for 8th. Which is where he was in the first place.

The Racing Gods gave him a challenge, and he failed.
Your grasp on reality is worsening by the minute.

Fire a shot at me because I said Ricciardo would be driving differently in a Mercedes based on accurate (and unacknowledged) logic?

Time for a breather.
 

imadodgyumpire

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Your grasp on reality is worsening by the minute.

Fire a shot at me because I said Ricciardo would be driving differently in a Mercedes based on accurate (and unacknowledged) logic?

Time for a breather.
I included you because you like hey shorty’s post that was above mine. Nothing to do with your post.
 

darth_timon

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To be fair to Dodgy, he's not without a point. Inconsistency for Dan so far this season puts him level on points with Hulkenberg, a driver I think we can agree is good but has never quite cracked the ceiling to greatness. Dan has proven he can live with the top echelon of the current grid, but I wonder if he's over driving to compensate for the deficiencies of the Renault? Points swiftly add up, and sometimes taking it easy is more productive. Look at Rosberg in 2016, especially in the last four races.

I think Dan is better than Bottas, and he's certainly more *exciting*, but points win prizes, not excitement, and one thing about Bottas is that he's consistent. Were Dan in the Merc right now and making the same sort of errors as he has, he'd be further behind Lewis. Would he driving differently in those circumstances? Possibly, but then again, Dan has always pushed hard and been fond of daring moves.

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davis_756

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To be fair to Dodgy, he's not without a point. Inconsistency for Dan so far this season puts him level on points with Hulkenberg, a driver I think we can agree is good but has never quite cracked the ceiling to greatness. Dan has proven he can live with the top echelon of the current grid, but I wonder if he's over driving to compensate for the deficiencies of the Renault? Points swiftly add up, and sometimes taking it easy is more productive. Look at Rosberg in 2016, especially in the last four races.

I think Dan is better than Bottas, and he's certainly more *exciting*, but points win prizes, not excitement, and one thing about Bottas is that he's consistent. Were Dan in the Merc right now and making the same sort of errors as he has, he'd be further behind Lewis. Would he driving differently in those circumstances? Possibly, but then again, Dan has always pushed hard and been fond of daring moves.

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He wouldn't be out braking himself trying for an overtake in a Merc, they are so far in front of the pack the only overtake he could achieve is on his teammate.

Qually he has been strong with all season, front row starts at worst.
 

hey shorty

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He wouldn't be out braking himself trying for an overtake in a Merc, they are so far in front of the pack the only overtake he could achieve is on his teammate.

Qually he has been strong with all season, front row starts at worst.
This.

Ridiculous to suggest otherwise really, I can't believe anyone would have a go at him for actually having a go.

Don't like living in reality ?? Pretty poor attempt at a cheap shot. I'm not the one continually making dumb statements.
 

FR0GGY

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Would've been good if they could have taken into account his profound dehydration (bottle not connected by his pit crew). I think it's well proven that dehydration plays havoc with judgment and reflexes.
That would probably be a penalty, (dangerous) like a wheel falling off.
 
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