England going forward

[moomba]

Gary Neville is a cert then.

 

[jd2010]

The annoying thing for England fans is they’re not that far off with talent pool. But they have 3 massive problems which most nations don’t suffer from.

1. The FA: they’re beyond incompetent. They like to hire yes men. They settle for mediocrity time and time again. They’ve got no clear strategy to improve domestic based coaching. Me and SM have debated a bit about why the clubs should care about the FA/National team, and I hate to admit it but he is right currently they shouldn’t! But that doesn’t mean the FA has to just sit there and take it and no improvements ever get made. Without knowing the full financials of the FA nobody will know how feasible things are, but why don’t they look to give clubs an incentive to give English/UK young managers a go? Why don’t they reward clubs (across the divisions) who are willing to stick to blooding youth and playing with a style that fits that of what the FA want the national teams playing? Is it unfair giving some clubs funding over others? Perhaps, but I think you’ll see more sides play like Bournemouth/Swansea in the lower divisions rather than Rotheram/WBA which can only be a good thing!
   
   
2. The Manager: this stems on from problem #1. They haven’t hired too many good managers imo. Vennables, Hoddle (minus the weird stuff) & to an extent Sven were good appointments. But none of them are yes men really and the FA are reluctant to go down the path of a Redknapp just in case he says something that stands on people’s toes. Standing on some toes and getting good results isn’t a bad thing! It’s a results business after all. The other problem they have when hiring managers is they have no long term plan (part of the problem for this is in #3 too). Since Roy took over I’d love to know how many formations he tried, how many different positions he tried certain players in & how many times he changed formations mid game? The guy genuinely had no idea. For someone who works full time watching football and then trying to implement a game plan onto players what 5-6 times a year that’s just not good enough. Most of us all work full time outside of football I’d imagine and we can all see that England had all the possession in the world but never really looked ominous! If we can do that why cant he? Or why cant GNev his right hand man (that is if he gets any say at all)?
   
   
3. The Press/Public: the hardest thing to fix I reckon. I know the expectations have dropped right off since 2002/2004 but it still doesn’t change the fact that the press, and then in turn the public don’t give the national team a massive chance to implement change. Lets just say the FA appointed Eddie Howe, and he wanted to shake things right up and play 3-5-2/4-4-2 nice style playing out from the back but willing to sit back and absorb pressure. Opening games he comes up against a small nation like Malta and this new style in its infancy draws 0-0. Now that result looks terrible, but it could also be quite decent in the grander scheme of things. If he was happy they implementing his style that he thinks will take them to where they need to be in the next 4-6 years then it’s a good performance. There is no way the Press/Public allow for that! There’d be way too much pressure on him and the team to win their next game that he’d either buckle to the pressure and abandon his style looking for a result, or he’d stick at it and risk his job. Mental really!

 

[Cruyff14]

They need a manager who has the balls not to pick players based on reputation, but on form.

Making the tough decisions and things people don't want to hear.

Until that happens, they will keep going backwards.

 

[jd2010]

They need a manager who has the balls not to pick players based on reputation, but on form.

Making the tough decisions and things people don't want to hear.

Until that happens, they will keep going backwards.

not entirely sure that is true

many sides (iceland for one) have players in their squad/starting XI who haven't had a fantastic season, but they've got a system they know inside out so it doesnt really matter

 

[WealstoneRaider]

Leave it to the true Geordie to tell it how it is

 

[jd2010]

The Roy press conference is as bad as anything this national team has ever dished up

Martin Glenn has said at least 3 times "i'm no football expert" wtf is he doing working at the FA then?
Roy has said he isn't sure why he needs to be giving this press conference 5 times. Um because you took an easy option so soon after the game and took no questions!

 

[jd2010]

"I dont know what I am doing here"

That pretty much summarises all the players thoughts on the field playing under Roy

 

[WealstoneRaider]

The Roy press conference is as bad as anything this national team has ever dished up

Martin Glenn has said at least 3 times "i'm no football expert" wtf is he doing working at the FA then?
Roy has said he isn't sure why he needs to be giving this press conference 5 times. Um because you took an easy option so soon after the game and took no questions!

Shambolic. Hodgson done himself no favours - gone down in my estimations as a bloke. He'd already reached rock bottom as a manager!

 

[jd2010]

Shambolic. Hodgson done himself no favours - gone down in my estimations as a bloke. He'd already reached rock bottom as a manager!

The Iceland game I thought was the lowest point. And then he managed to do even worse with the pre-planned quit speech. Then he dishes up this the next day. WTF. Seriously. This is a f*cking embarassment! As a casual supporter of the side it pisses me off. I can only imagine how it is for actualy Poms!

 

[Cruyff14]

not entirely sure that is true

many sides (iceland for one) have players in their squad/starting XI who haven't had a fantastic season, but they've got a system they know inside out so it doesnt really matter

I meant more of the likes of not picking Drinkwater etc.

 

[jd2010]

I meant more of the likes of not picking Drinkwater etc.

yeah but what i am saying is picking the most in form team doesnt solve england's problems

they lost to iceland who have blokes barely getting games in the first div in Sweden, couldn't find their way through against Slovakia a side that isnt littered with players who tore up the 15/16 season

drinkwater would have been just as useful as wilshere, henderson, alli etc. if he went under roy

 

[Cruyff14]

That's true. The system/tactics etc is obviously also a huge issue which needs to be rectified.

 

[Art Vandelay_]

They're a reflection of the league.

There's barely, if any top 10 players in the EPL that are English.

Kane has a case possibly.

They have a way higher percentage of international players compared to the other major successful nations when looking at their home leagues.

You can bang on about the championship being the best second division in the world. But the Germans, Spanish and Italians still have a boatload of local players developing in good sides.

If they really wanted to improve the England side, they'd have to reduce the quality of the EPL and lower the cap of non trained players, even potentially bringing in a pure foreign cap all together.

That hour long radio piece that Kizza put up yesterday had a decent point. Point was made by Chris Waddle, you look at where these players have come from... All top clubs in England, who have big budgets and buy good players so these players would be good right?

The point he made was that some of these players are merely pieces of the puzzle, not the key pieces of the puzzle. yes Cahill plays for Chelsea but it's Fabregas, Hazard, Costa etc that makes the team tick. Coutinho, Eriksen, De Bruyne, Dembele, Sanchez, Ozil etc etc. So how can you expect these players to excel on the world stage when for the most part they're not the drivers of success at club level. Important pieces for their club puzzles no doubt but not the key piece.

 

[jd2010]

definitely

italy are in the final 8 with Giaccherini in the squad who didn't exactly tear it up on loan at Bolgona, Wales have Neil Taylor and Ashley Williams as main stays and they weren't convincing for Swansea at all this season

 

[jd2010]

That hour long radio piece that Kizza put up yesterday had a decent point. Point was made by Chris Waddle, you look at where these players have come from... All top clubs in England, who have big budgets and buy good players so these players would be good right?

The point he made was that some of these players are merely pieces of the puzzle, not the key pieces of the puzzle. yes Cahill plays for Chelsea but it's Fabregas, Hazard, Costa etc that makes the team tick. Coutinho, Eriksen, De Bruyne, Dembele, Sanchez, Ozil etc etc. So how can you expect these players to excel on the world stage when for the most part they're not the drivers of success at club level. Important pieces for their club puzzles no doubt but not the key piece.

not entirely correct but i get where its coming from. It's just that England fail to fill the roles that make a properly good team well enough

Poch built our team quite a lot from defensive foundations that Dier helped bring to the table. Alli contributed as much creativity as Eriksen. And then Kane finished things off. The spine of our team that drove us up the table was (Lloris, JV-Toby, Dier, Alli-Dembele, Eriksen & Kane). 3 out of the the 8 main players from England is pretty good compared to most sides. Problem with England is they're weaker in every position of those other 5 than Spurs are and of course the fact that not many teams main 8 guys have a 3-5 split!

Hart v Lloris
Smalling-Cahill v JV-Toby
Dembele v Rooney
Eriksen v Lallana

Only Hart comes close in those comparisons. And thats man city Hart. Not the international hart who turned to water with that CB pairing in front of him (would have thoguht playing behind Demi and co would have prepared him better)

 

[Art Vandelay_]

not entirely correct but i get where its coming from. It's just that England fail to fill the roles that make a properly good team well enough

Poch built our team quite a lot from defensive foundations that Dier helped bring to the table. Alli contributed as much creativity as Eriksen. And then Kane finished things off. The spine of our team that drove us up the table was (Lloris, JV-Toby, Dier, Alli-Dembele, Eriksen & Kane). 3 out of the the 8 main players from England is pretty good compared to most sides. Problem with England is they're weaker in every position of those other 5 than Spurs are and of course the fact that not many teams main 8 guys have a 3-5 split!

Hart v Lloris
Smalling-Cahill v JV-Toby
Dembele v Rooney
Eriksen v Lallana

Only Hart comes close in those comparisons. And thats man city Hart. Not the international hart who turned to water with that CB pairing in front of him (would have thoguht playing behind Demi and co would have prepared him better)

He explained it better than I, that much is certain.
No doubt part of the problem is that young promising players get too much too soon as well. Rodwell, Walcott, Sterling etc and then stagnate. here's hoping Dele isn't the same.

if we're going on form Townsend should have gone, an actual proper winger and with that subpar defence why go conservative? If you can't defend you're going to need to be able to score.

 

[jd2010]

So using us as the example again of turning a side around the key players we GK, CB, CB, DM, AM, AM, ST

For England they need to get better in just two areas. CB & AM.

GK: well stocked with Hart, Forster & Butland up and coming
CB: shambles really, Cahill is poor, Smalling still has to work on his game, Jones hasn't played enough, Stones too raw
DM: just Dier but he proved himself
AM: should be better than it currently is... Wilshere & Alli are the keys to unlocking sides going forward. Give them some time and a winger as the other outlet behind the ST and it could become a strength of the side
ST: too well stocked, any 1 of Kane, Vardy & Sturridge could rightly start

 

[Jatz]

yeah but what i am saying is picking the most in form team doesnt solve england's problems

they lost to iceland who have blokes barely getting games in the first div in Sweden, couldn't find their way through against Slovakia a side that isnt littered with players who tore up the 15/16 season

drinkwater would have been just as useful as wilshere, henderson, alli etc. if he went under roy

You don't know that. Some players do well under different set ups. He may well have excelled for all we know.

 

[jd2010]

You don't know that. Some players do well under different set ups. He may well have excelled for all we know.

No english player has excelled since Owen in 1998 and rooney in his first tournament. No offence to Drinkwater but he isnt going to make much of a difference to a set up that was stuffed

 

[Jatz]

No english player has excelled since Owen in 1998 and rooney in his first tournament. No offence to Drinkwater but he isnt going to make much of a difference to a set up that was stuffed

I don't mean best player of the tournament, I mean the point of difference. All season he was able to provide assists in games that looked like we wouldn't win. Not to mention he's got a decent long shot on him, something all but Alli lack a bit of.

Alas, we'll never really know.

 

[Art Vandelay_]

Leave it to the true Geordie to tell it how it is

GoT walk of atonement Shame! Shame! Shame!

 

[SM]

I don't mean best player of the tournament, I mean the point of difference. All season he was able to provide assists in games that looked like we wouldn't win. Not to mention he's got a decent long shot on him, something all but Alli lack a bit of.

Alas, we'll never really know.

Like Vardy was the point of difference?

Drinkwater should have gone, but England has bigger problems.

 

[Jatz]

Like Vardy was the point of difference?

Drinkwater should have gone, but England has bigger problems.

Did score against Wales when it didn't seem likely. But yeah, he struggled a bit.

I didn't suggest they don't have bigger problems. They definitely do.

 

[Latro]

Who is Danny Baker?

Just saw his hilarious tweets on England.

 

[ADL9798]

Just watched Hodgson's press conference (the 2nd one where he actually answered questions). No surprises, suffice to say his incompetence is matched only by his arrogance.

"I don't really know what I'm doing here. I thought my statement last night was sufficient."

How about the fact that you've been paid £14m over 4 years and you've presided over 2 of England's worst ever performances at major tournaments, taken the national team backwards, and that maybe for once in your career you might like to take responsibility for your failings. Obviously he isn't obliged to do anything, but I think we've all had enough of listening to him repeat those often used lines/lies about his magnificent achievements and his position as a much respected elder statesman of the game on par with Alex Ferguson. It was good to see him show accountability for a change albeit reluctantly and it seems only after being coerced.

I can handle incompetence, there are many incompetent managers out there. My issue with Hodgson lies with his arrogance - he has never shown any willingness to accept constructive criticism and learn/adapt his methods, and that is why we are seeing witnessing exactly the same failings of this England side as we saw of the Liverpool side he managed 6 years ago.

Forget England, the game in general will be better off without him.

As for England and their chances of success going forward, the type of manager they pick to replace Hodgson is by far the single most important factor.

Look at the strengths of this group of players, look at the way they play at club level - aggressive pressing, fast transition, quick, direct passing into feet.

Forget looking for a manager with decades of experience, it's irrelevant if their experience is in a style that is no longer effective and/or does not match these strengths. Look for a coach who understands these strengths and can develop a system to allow these players replicate them at international level. There are many coaches out there who fit this criteria, some are currently managing in the UK, many of them are abroad. Fortunately in the form of one of the most highly paid jobs in the game the FA have a significant carrot on their line to tempt any would be suitors.