England going forward

[WealstoneRaider]

Are you talking to me?

I have stated many times why I think they are failing and you have read my opinions, you even said my opinions are shyte and I don't know what I am talking about. I'll be nice and repeat myself even though you continue to avoid answering my own questions.

I'll give you a quick summary: they are technically below par (in skills) compared to the top teams. They overrate themselves. Their fans overrate them. The English seem to equate speed (Raheem Sterling) with skill (Eden Hazard). Also scoring spectacular goals from having cracks from outside the box does not a technically skilled player make. I have watched 30 years of lauded English players who can run fast but not beat a technically proficient defender one on one. English footballers seem to have one or two tricks in their kit bag but not much else, their favourite being the step over. Of course there are always the odd ones out that surprise you, but they are the odd ones out.

You cannot honestly think that your average English player is technically on par with an average Italian, Spanish, Brazilian player. This is why English players have traditionally struggled when trying to play in a highly technical league like Serie A.

English need to take the blinkers off, address skills, learn some humility (BeIn presenters seem to agree with all this, some of them are English btw), don't overrate a bog average player. And right now, get a foreign coach ffs. It'll take a little time, but good things do.

New academies will not fix the English mentality, which is borne of arrogance. Sounds harsh but look at the absolute shocked and angry reaction from the English hosts on the broadcast. I tell you what, I was not shocked at all that Iceland beat England. At all.

There's plenty more but it's 12.30 and cbf.

So I gave you a courtesy, want to give me one and answer my questions for once? Why are my opinions "shyte" mate?

Firstly, you are entitled to those opinions, and you are not alone in them. I never meant to label your opinions as "shyte" rather the way that you presented them seemed clearly aimed at antagonising people. The fact that you then got upset at the "Poms" for slapping you down clearly proves that you were only after a bit of Pom bashing.

Actually I agree with some of your points, and I always have done and you won't find any evidence to the contrary. By and large, Northern European teams do not play the same brand of football as Latin Europeans and South Americans. We play a more pragmatic game based on speed and strength more than skills. We throw up the occasional skilful player but that's it. The thing is our game is played at a much greater pace and that style is so ingrained because for one, a fast paced excites this culture more. Coaching now is trying to get away from that but I can't imagine a PL game that is played like a Serie A match. However, as discussed in the other thread, we don't even play this fast-paced game with the national team anymore - and with results at tournaments declining it has opened debate on how we move forward. We are having something of an identity crisis with our football.

All your other points regarding "arrogance" is nonsense and probably borne out odyour obvious dislike of the English which you've already shown

 

[Runnin Blue]

All your other points regarding "arrogance" is nonsense and probably borne out odyour obvious dislike of the English which you've already shown

It is a widely held view that the English are arrogant when it comes to football. How would you explain continuously overrating their players, their team and thinking the world's going to end because they were beaten by some "minnow" in Iceland?

The English broadcast host snorted and laughed when he was asked who he thought was going to win and he replied with "oh, come on." What other word other than "arrogance" best describes this attitude?

 

[WealstoneRaider]

It is a widely held view that the English are arrogant when it comes to football. How would you explain continuously overrating their players, their team and thinking the world's going to end because they were beaten by some "minnow" in Iceland?

The English broadcast host snorted and laughed when he was asked who he thought was going to win and he replied with "oh, come on." What other word other than "arrogance" best describes this attitude?

Who was this host? Do you understand English humour - you should do if you are an Aussie.

The only "arrogance" may come from the fact that we invented the game and should be performing better. Also as an economic powerhouse with a 55 million populace points to the fact that we are underperforming. This is our national game, and outside perhaps the olympics, Wimbledon and an ashes series, the only sporting interest that gains wide attention. Football gets 90% of the sporting media, so of course there is going to be inquests. And actually it's the same in Spain, Italy, Germany just you either chose not to or are unaware of how they react.

 

[Doctor Bojan_]

It is a widely held view that the English are arrogant when it comes to football. How would you explain continuously overrating their players, their team and thinking the world's going to end because they were beaten by some "minnow" in Iceland?

The English broadcast host snorted and laughed when he was asked who he thought was going to win and he replied with "oh, come on." What other word other than "arrogance" best describes this attitude?

c'mon mate. The attitude of some D/H on Bein does not represent the viewpoint of an entire nation. Most English people know that their team is shit right now.

 

[Runnin Blue]

c'mon mate. The attitude of some D/H on Bein does not represent the viewpoint of an entire nation. Most English people know that their team is shit right now.

It's an example. I've noticed this attitude my entire footy watching life.

 

[Runnin Blue]

Who was this host? Do you understand English humour - you should do if you are an Aussie.

The only "arrogance" may come from the fact that we invented the game and should be performing better. Also as an economic powerhouse with a 55 million populace points to the fact that we are underperforming. This is our national game, and outside perhaps the olympics, Wimbledon and an ashes series, the only sporting interest that gains wide attention. Football gets 90% of the sporting media, so of course there is going to be inquests. And actually it's the same in Spain, Italy, Germany just you either chose not to or are unaware of how they react.

You can deny it all you like mate, but you won't change my opinion. It is based on what I have seen, heard and experienced. I trust in that.

 

[moomba]

Righto mate. You fellas seem to do that when you can't force someone to agree with you. Listening to what exactly? You try to make excuses for the English soccer system? Tell you what, we'll all come back in 20 years and see the fruits of this labour you are on about.

Cheerio.

You seem to be keen to turn this into an adversarial thing, when the thread is about discussion on Englands future. No-one but you sees this as a win or lose debate. No-one but you seems to think that anyone is trying to force anyone else to agree with them.

Might be why "us fellas" are avoiding getting into ongoing discussion with you. If you can stop carrying on like a bellend I'm sure there is good discussion to be had on an interesting topic.

 

[WealstoneRaider]

You can deny it all you like mate, but you won't change my opinion. It is based on what I have seen, heard and experienced. I trust in that.

People only hear what they want to hear in my experience. I can assure you most English people don't have an arrogance when it comes to football - probably quite the opposite in fact

 

[Magma]

so the whole tournament the media have given sterling a horrific time

now it's suddenly


this. this is the problem. cause the stir, realise stir has gotten out of hand, pretend you didn't cause the stir and try to bail out.

 

[WealstoneRaider]

Sterling has become the scapegoat - but I think most people realise the problems are deeper than one under-performing player. Sterling don't help himself though. I mean he's got a Barbers built in his house ffs. That sort of thing just adds fuel to the fire

 

[Magma]

im sure plenty of other footballers have stupid, money wasting things in their houses too.

consider being a young english footballer and seeing this. a rashford, an oxford, a tye campbell, etc etc. it all follows the same format, and rashford will probably be next in line. they'll build themselves into such a frenzy for the next two years before russia. he'll likely get a new contract with manchester united after having two great seasons, because he will. he's a superb talent. he'll probably get a big new house, a fancy new car, because why not? and then comes the international pressure. he'll lead us to glory. he's the best english talent produced in years. yada yada.

and then he has a form slump. which he will. everyone does. but what if it happens at the same time as russia 2018? all those nice words suddenly disappear. out comes the gleeful hatred of the newspapers. maybe a hilarious little widget comes out on each article related to rashford and england. how much money has marcus rashford made in the time you've been on this page? panned by everyone, he was never very good anyways, all he had was his pace, i knew he wouldn't amount to anything.

and he'll be 21 years old. but hey, at least young tye campbell showed glimpses at the tournament in his few minutes. why didn't ___ give him more minutes? i can't wait for him to prove himself these next 2 years before the euros in 2020. maybe he'll get that new deal...

it eats itself.

 

[moomba]

so the whole tournament the media have given sterling a horrific time

now it's suddenly


this. this is the problem. cause the stir, realise stir has gotten out of hand, pretend you didn't cause the stir and try to bail out.

And without a hint of self awareness Herbert, in his article saying we shouldn't be demonising Sterling writes this

Sterling is the epitome of all the characteristics which have made England so unattractive and hard to love: the headphones, the salary, the swagger, the substantial transfer fee (£44m; £49m if you compute the add-ons), the undignified and very public agitation to leave Liverpool. Ingredients for the kind of demonisation that propel the cogs of the Twittersphere.

Unbelievable. Headphones, won't someone think of the children.

 

[Doctor Bojan_]

People expect Sterling to play like a 49m player every game when in reality, he was bought for a 10 year+ career at City. It is the English way that as soon as they don't play to their price tag, the media and fans find holes in their personal lives to bash them over the head with. Surprised Herbert didn't mention his 25 kids for example. Fwiw, the media love Liverpool and I reckon half the shit he cops is not anti city bias but more pro liverpool (old big 4 too) stuff from the media.

All he's really guilty of is not playing like a 49m pound player at the euros (which is stupid as i've mentioned above). The fans don't like him though and the press feed their readership.

Bagging him about headphones is pretty funny haha. Beats by Dre?

 

[Magma]

for me it's not totally about sterling anymore. it's about the next line of young english footballers who will endure the wrath of a fickle and manic media. it transcends club allegiances at this point. ignoring that it's only a 21 year old kid, no one deserves to go through that level of consistent abuse.

15-19 year old young footballers must be absolutely bricking themselves seeing this. and who could blame them?

 

[jd2010]

England's squads should only get more technically advanced as the years go by. They saw this as a weakness after the 2010 World Cup. It's only 6 years on from that debacle. And since then there's been a few technically good players come along who haven't had it coached out of them (good not world class) like Sturridge, Wilshere, Dier, Alli & even Sterling.

They do obviously lack that Iniesta or Ozil level player. But you can't say they're that far behind technically sides who play Graziano Pelle, Benteke and Mario Gomez up front.

Waddles point was spot on though. There's nobody who comes close to KDB or Ozil to create chances for a good finisher but technically avg Kane. Wilshere has been the great hope forever it seems and injury has stopped him from at least having a proper chance to be that player

 

[glenferry23]

http://www.football365.com/news/england-blame-game-16-conclusions

Decent piece from F365.

 

[moomba]

The pressing front page issue of the day in England apparently.

Raheem has a sink.

 

[Doctor Bojan_]

I'm offended. I demand compensation.

 

[Cruyff14]

And they wonder why they fail.

Who ****ing cares what he has in his own home. FFS these tabloids are rubbish.

 

[Runnin Blue]

You seem to be keen to turn this into an adversarial thing, when the thread is about discussion on Englands future. No-one but you sees this as a win or lose debate. No-one but you seems to think that anyone is trying to force anyone else to agree with them.

Might be why "us fellas" are avoiding getting into ongoing discussion with you. If you can stop carrying on like a bellend I'm sure there is good discussion to be had on an interesting topic.

You avoid getting into an ongoing discussion with me when I refuse to take on your opinion. You accuse me of being adversarial whilst at the same time you participate in this gang-up hive mind against anyone who does not hold the same opinion as your good selves. You call me names, yet it's somehow all my fault. Lol. For real?

I've explained my opinion perfectly well, I'm not changing it, just as I can see you will not either.

We'll pick this up the next time I offer a comment you deem negative towards mighty England and proceed to jump down my throat. Of course, you will ignore the positive remarks I make as you usually do as this doesn't suit your agenda.

To summarize your view, England have implemented these amazing new academy systems but we won't see any evidence of it until some unspecified time in the future. Ok fine. Let's move on.

 

[Jatz]

Sterling has become the scapegoat - but I think most people realise the problems are deeper than one under-performing player. Sterling don't help himself though. I mean he's got a Barbers built in his house ffs. That sort of thing just adds fuel to the fire

This shouldn't even be a consideration. You've got a gaming coffee table (that from memory cost a bit?) at your place. If you don't perform at work, should people be bringing that up?

 

[WealstoneRaider]

I think some of you maybe missing the point here, which is the lack of accountability these players have. They are rewarded (and lauded which is the medias fault) far too early in their careers - some after just having one good season. They are then put on huge contracts which means they are set up for the rest of their lives. For some players, I think it harms their development. We do admittedly jump on people we see as being given everything undeservedly, and obscene displays of wealth (especially when coupled with an individual who is obviously not too bright) are subjected to a little wrath.

It's not really the players fault in a way, and if Sterling turns it around he will be taken to people's hearts again. It happened with Beckham

 

[Jatz]

I think some of you maybe missing the point here, which is the lack of accountability these players have. They are rewarded (and lauded which is the medias fault) far too early in their careers - some after just having one good season. They are then put on huge contracts which means they are set up for the rest of their lives. For some players, I think it harms their development. We do admittedly jump on people we see as being given everything undeservedly, and obscene displays of wealth (especially when coupled with an individual who is obviously not too bright) are subjected to a little wrath.

It's not really the players fault in a way, and if Sterling turns it around he will be taken to people's hearts again. It happened with Beckham

I agree with your point. In no way is that point the players fault though. As you say, the media is the one that talks them up, the clubs the ones that offer stupid money. If I was on their money, I'm sure I'd have spent some on stupid shit as well haha.

Sterling's biggest thing is that he needs to focus on his football. That's all that should matter to him for the time being.

 

[WealstoneRaider]

There's spending money on stupid shit (Arcade coffee tables for one ) and then there's being an overly flash, bling merchant that flaunts ones wealth too publically. The English have never been comfortable with that - go to the US if you want to exercise this. We see ourselves as having a bit more class so when someone breaks that mould they get flak.

I just broke my high score on Galaga btw

 

[elhadjihenry]

This shouldn't even be a consideration. You've got a gaming coffee table (that from memory cost a bit?) at your place. If you don't perform at work, should people be bringing that up?

I'd have no issue with Sterling having a ridiculous house, flaunting it a day after being embarrassingly knocked out of the Euros is the stupid thing. Was always going to result in a public backlash.