England tour of South Africa (4 Tests, 3 ODIs, 3 T20s)

[DaRick]

Maharaj bowls in the worst spin conditions in the world so he can probably be excused a bit.
Rabada is still only 23-24.

RE Maharaj, that's true but up until about 15 months ago he looked like he could take wickets in most if not all conditions, and like many spinners looked particularly dangerous on turners. Since then he's just been completely ineffective in general - even in subcontinental conditions and Cape Town/Port Elizabeth (which traditionally favour spinners more than other SA grounds) he's paid dearly for his wickets.

Rabada I agree with.

If I was SA I would risk losing some tests for long term gain.
Prepare some green flyers, keep competitive that way, while giving the next crop of batsmen a very tough initiation into test cricket. If they rotate through 8-9 batsmen to try and find a combination, and the ones that stand out have crafted their art on tough pitches, it might help them build for another tilt in 3-4 years

At Test level yes, at franchise level I'd have more varied wickets so the domestic batsmen can learn to bat in variable conditions. From memory, CA went down the 'green flyer' track at state level some time back and it didn't really work because it made quicks look more dangerous than they actually were while not improving the techniques of the domestic batsmen much. Alternating between Kookaburra and Duke balls has worked reasonably well from what I understand so they can try that.

 

[WeMissYouMarkCoughlan]

Nice to see Root’s tradition of falling just short of a milestone isn’t just limited with the bat in hand...

 

[PhatBoy]

Nice to see Root’s tradition of falling just short of a milestone isn’t just limited with the bat in hand...

He did achieve one (or most of one).
He’s now gone - aside from the 4 byes at the end of it - for the equal most runs in a test over

 

[frankrizzo]

So that's 7 losses out of the last 8 tests for sa if they were all tough away games you could maybe understand but losing 4 out of its last 5 at home is a shock.

They are also facing back to back series losses at home for the first time since the 1950s

 

[frankrizzo]

I'm one of the first to say Bavuma deserved to be dropped from the side but the current Test side is embarrassing. They've fallen far harder then we ever did after 2007 and I worry about them ever finding a way back.

Faf needs to go, everyone talks about him being a great leader on the surface but he's been awful with the bat and they need a new start. Give Bavuma another chance as it keeps the wolves (government etc.) at bay, give the gloves to someone else so Quinny can bat at 5 and focus on being the Proteas best batsmen and give Elgar the captaincy.

From what faf is saying I think he will play the two tests vs the Windies then the 20/20 world cup and retire after that.

 

[Cainozz]

Harsh race quotas have wrecked their domestic league. I doubt they will ever be a force again like when they had that amazing lineup with Kallis , Smith , De Villiers ,etc..

As for England , I already feel like massive gains have been made from this tour.
Sibley and Pope coming through. They will likely be around for a long time.

Pope for me looks like a future captain. His calmness at the crease reminds me a lot of Ian Bell (kinda looks like him too) and has an appetite for runs. Could even be better than Joe Root.

 

[PhatBoy]

Harsh race quotas have wrecked their domestic league. I doubt they will ever be a force again like when they had that amazing lineup with Kallis , Smith , De Villiers ,etc..

As for England , I already feel like massive gains have been made from this tour.
Sibley and Pope coming through. They will likely be around for a long time.

The bigger picture needs to be taken into account to a degree.
SA has a decent population, and from memory about 90 per cent of it is coloured. Before Ntini, Gibbs etc that 90 per cent was basically untapped.

Now at the moment obviously most of the coloured players at domestic level aren’t really up to it.

But I would look at it the same way we look at expansion nations in international cricket. The more and the longer they are exposed to that level the better they will be. And if that enhanced albeit artificial presence at domestic or test level filters down and brings more and more coloured players into the game, then ultimately there will be more and more players of colour earning a spot on merit, and subsequently enhance the talent pool.

And athletically especially, that will only be a good thing. A lot of those guys are built to bowl fast.

The fact that they have good infrastructure and good, experienced heads at the helm will help, and it’s hard to imagine that their rebuild would take as long as West Indies have taken with their ragged administration

 

[Seedsfan]

The way 5 of the current 6 have batted for most of this series I don’t think it would have mattered. Doesn’t help that the one guy who HAS stood up has chucked his wicket away twice when he really needed to graft

Look there batting has been terrible but all the more reason to play an extra batsmen

 

[PhatBoy]

Look there batting has been terrible but all the more reason to play an extra batsmen

One of the ‘problems’ if you can call it that, is that 4 of the top 5 probably can’t be immediately shitcanned.
Malan came in and played a superb innings in Cape Town. Van der Dussen scored a tough half century on debut in a low scoring contest and has batted good time in a couple of other innings. Elgar made 88 a game ago. Du Plessis is, for now, the captain. So while they have been poor as a unit, they would be hard pressed to just cut any of those 4 out. Hamza from memory has a very good record so probably earned a shot at test cricket but probably needs to be chopped.

 

[Seedsfan]

One of the ‘problems’ if you can call it that, is that 4 of the top 5 probably can’t be immediately shitcanned.
Malan came in and played a superb innings in Cape Town. Van der Dussen scored a tough half century on debut in a low scoring contest and has batted good time in a couple of other innings. Elgar made 88 a game ago. Du Plessis is, for now, the captain. So while they have been poor as a unit, they would be hard pressed to just cut any of those 4 out. Hamza from memory has a very good record so probably earned a shot at test cricket but probably needs to be chopped.

Look that’s a fair point outside of Faf they have all played good innings but struggled as a group. Still think the team would be more balanced with an extra batsmen

 

[swingdog]

Look that’s a fair point outside of Faf they have all played good innings but struggled as a group. Still think the team would be more balanced with an extra batsmen

Looking through the averages from the current 3 day competition, there aren't too many banging down the door:

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...ost_runs_career.html?id=13197;type=tournament

This piece suggests there are some coming through:

https://www.espncricinfo.com/story/...-moonda-south-african-cricket-young-prospects

 

[Seedsfan]

Looking through the averages from the current 3 day competition, there aren't too many banging down the door:

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...ost_runs_career.html?id=13197;type=tournament

This piece suggests there are some coming through:

https://www.espncricinfo.com/story/...-moonda-south-african-cricket-young-prospects

Maybe look at the 4 day comp. You get picked from provincial 3 day cricket to play in the 4 day franchise series and then hopefully to test cricket
Raynard Van Tonder has made 778 runs at 70.72 and Edward Moore 705 at 50 both deserve a look in

 

[swingdog]

Maybe look at the 4 day comp. You get picked from provincial 3 day cricket to play in the 4 day franchise series and then hopefully to test cricket
Raynard Van Tonder has made 778 runs at 70.72 and Edward Moore 705 at 50 both deserve a look in

Ah, right, I couldn't work out the relationship, thanks.

 

[Seedsfan]

Ah, right, I couldn't work out the relationship, thanks.

Neither could I, I found it very odd so I had to google it to work it all out

 

[010203]

Our old mate Joel Wilson is umpiring in this test. No Archer for England who misses out in favour of Mark Wood. Joe Root won the toss and chose to bat. Faf Du Plessis thinks he has lost 7 consecutive tosses now. No Maharaj for SA in what is an all pace attack, Hamza is replaced by Bavuma.

South Africa: 1 Dean Elgar, 2 Pieter Malan, 3 Rassie van der Dussen, 4 Faf du Plessis (capt), 5 Quinton de Kock (wk), 6 Temba Bavuma, 7 Dwaine Pretorius, 8 Vernon Philander, 9 Dane Paterson, 10 Beuran Hendricks, 11 Anrich Nortje
England: 1 Dom Sibley 2 Zak Crawley 3 Joe Denly 4 Joe Root (capt) 5 Ben Stokes 6 Ollie Pope 7 Jos Buttler (wk) 8 Chris Woakes 9 Sam Curran 10 Mark Wood 11 Stuart Broad

 

[eddiesmith]

Our old mate Joel Wilson is umpiring in this test. No Archer for England who misses out in favour of Mark Wood who won the toss and chose to bat. Faf Du Plessis thinks he has lost 7 consecutive tosses now. No Maharaj for SA in what is an all pace attack, Hamza is replaced by Bavuma.

South Africa: 1 Dean Elgar, 2 Pieter Malan, 3 Rassie van der Dussen, 4 Faf du Plessis (capt), 5 Quinton de Kock (wk), 6 Temba Bavuma, 7 Dwaine Pretorius, 8 Vernon Philander, 9 Dane Paterson, 10 Beuran Hendricks, 11 Anrich Nortje
England: 1 Dom Sibley 2 Zak Crawley 3 Joe Denly 4 Joe Root (capt) 5 Ben Stokes 6 Ollie Pope 7 Jos Buttler (wk) 8 Chris Woakes 9 Sam Curran 10 Mark Wood 11 Stuart Broad

Can't believe we've gone for the 5 quicks, the only time we did it this series we lost!

 

[Donnie Darko]

Can't believe we've gone for the 5 quicks, the only time we did it this series we lost!

Its a gamble!!
But that lost test was at Centurion . We always seem to do badly there..

 

[frankrizzo]

Doesn't look a good call to leave out the spinner but both sides have done it so it shouldn't matter in the end.

 

[Sylvia Saint]

Stokes in trouble for abusing a fan in the crowd. "Say it to me outside the ground you ******* 4-eyed campaigner." Picked up on TV.

To be fair, he wouldn't be the first player to lose his temper walking back to the pavilion. But it's still not a great look for Stokes.

 

[ioppolo]

Fans say whatever they want but when a player retaliates it all falls on them.

 

[Adelaide Hawk]

Fans say whatever they want but when a player retaliates it all falls on them.

That's true but Ben Stokes doesn't seem to have an appropriate level of tolerance. Needs to pull his head in.

 

[Carbine Chaos]

Fans say whatever they want but when a player retaliates it all falls on them.

Hopefully the fan gets a nice extended ban from the venue.

 

[Bomberboyokay]

Fans say whatever they want but when a player retaliates it all falls on them.

Hi Ben

 

[BACCS]

Hopefully the fan gets a nice extended ban from the venue.

Didn’t he just say he looked like Ed Sheeran?

 

[Carbine Chaos]

Didn’t he just say he looked like Ed Sheeran?

Nah, apparently the bloke told Stokes he wouldn’t make his next putt and kept calling him a jackass.