Toast English Class is in. Welcome to the Dogs Tim English Pick 19

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Dannnnnnnnnn

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English is a very, very good footballer. Can't wait to see English Vs Grundy in 4--5 years.
It's bizarre to think about how much young rucks - Grundy included - tend to cop early in their careers. Yet here's English - the guy who was meant to take four years plus to develop - looking every bit a contributing AFL level first ruck. He is astonishingly good given his size, lack of experience and age. It is going to be an absolute pleasure to watch him develop.
 

bobby2

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Reckon he'll be another Dean Cox. He thinks and moves like another midfielder with ball in hand. The only other player I've ever seen do that was Cox himself.
I've seen lots of midfielders do that. :p

But seriously, Tim will be a star. People often rave about the kids who come in ready made like Sam Powell pepper, but the ones who aren't ready made, but still manage to make an early impact at AFL level, like bont, macrae and fyfe, tend to be the ones that go on to be something really special.
 

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cecil

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Does anyone know anywhere that takes bets on a place for the rising star? Asking for a mate...
 

threenewpadlocks

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It's bizarre to think about how much young rucks - Grundy included - tend to cop early in their careers. Yet here's English - the guy who was meant to take four years plus to develop - looking every bit a contributing AFL level first ruck. He is astonishingly good given his size, lack of experience and age. It is going to be an absolute pleasure to watch him develop.
Rucks take a long time to develop - maybe the nature of ruckwork itself, positioning, quick thinking in tapwork by reading the positioning of those around you, confidence to use your size, and so on, can only come through multiple years of experience, which is why so many of the best rucks in the league take so long to develop (and why there's been a recent trend away from drafting rucks early in the draft - they take longer to develop, and once they do, it's easier for them to be poached).

Look at all the players who got the most hitouts from last year:
Jacobs: Played 0 games in his first 2 years on Carlton's list, 4 in his 3rd, 13 in his 4th, was traded to Adelaide and has been their first ruck ever since
Ryder: Was a pick 7, played 9 games in his first year, but spent time as a key forward and key defender to develop before going back into the ruck: between games 19, his 10th in his second year, and game 56, his 4th in his 4th year, he averaged less than 3 hitouts a game, and was never 1st ruck
Mumford: drafted as a 22-year-old mature ager
Martin: Was another drafted in his 20's, never cemented himself at Melbourne variously playing key positions at both ends and through the ruck, traded to Brisbane and didn't cement himself as Brisbane's primary ruck until his third season there, at age 28
Grundy: Even he only played 7 games in his first year, and he's the outlier to these examples (and probably would have gone earlier in the draft if it wasn't for the "it's easy to poach" collective understanding of other clubs)
McEvoy: Drafted with pick 9, he only played 1 game in his first year, 11 in his second. Had established himself by the time he went to the Hawks but is clearly a much better player at the Hawks than he was at the Saints. Despite playing in their 2014-15 flags, he wasn't established in the best 22 of the Hawks team in either of those years, playing 6 and 4 games in the reserves in those years respectively
Witts: Drafted as a 19 year old, a year after he was first eligible, 0 games in his first year, 7 in his second, 20 in his 3rd, was stuck behind Grundy, traded cheaply, probably a top 10 ruck in the league right now

I could go on with all these other players, but the point is English is tracking above where all the other best rucks in the league were when they were his age (turning 20 year old season), except Grundy, and Grundy's probably going to be the best ruck in the league, head and shoulders, when he's in his late 20,s given he's probably a top 5-10 ruck anyway in his early 20's right now.
 

perro_loco

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Rucks take a long time to develop - maybe the nature of ruckwork itself, positioning, quick thinking in tapwork by reading the positioning of those around you, confidence to use your size, and so on, can only come through multiple years of experience, which is why so many of the best rucks in the league take so long to develop (and why there's been a recent trend away from drafting rucks early in the draft - they take longer to develop, and once they do, it's easier for them to be poached).

Look at all the players who got the most hitouts from last year:
Jacobs: Played 0 games in his first 2 years on Carlton's list, 4 in his 3rd, 13 in his 4th, was traded to Adelaide and has been their first ruck ever since
Ryder: Was a pick 7, played 9 games in his first year, but spent time as a key forward and key defender to develop before going back into the ruck: between games 19, his 10th in his second year, and game 56, his 4th in his 4th year, he averaged less than 3 hitouts a game, and was never 1st ruck
Mumford: drafted as a 22-year-old mature ager
Martin: Was another drafted in his 20's, never cemented himself at Melbourne variously playing key positions at both ends and through the ruck, traded to Brisbane and didn't cement himself as Brisbane's primary ruck until his third season there, at age 28
Grundy: Even he only played 7 games in his first year, and he's the outlier to these examples (and probably would have gone earlier in the draft if it wasn't for the "it's easy to poach" collective understanding of other clubs)
McEvoy: Drafted with pick 9, he only played 1 game in his first year, 11 in his second. Had established himself by the time he went to the Hawks but is clearly a much better player at the Hawks than he was at the Saints. Despite playing in their 2014-15 flags, he wasn't established in the best 22 of the Hawks team in either of those years, playing 6 and 4 games in the reserves in those years respectively
Witts: Drafted as a 19 year old, a year after he was first eligible, 0 games in his first year, 7 in his second, 20 in his 3rd, was stuck behind Grundy, traded cheaply, probably a top 10 ruck in the league right now

I could go on with all these other players, but the point is English is tracking above where all the other best rucks in the league were when they were his age (turning 20 year old season), except Grundy, and Grundy's probably going to be the best ruck in the league, head and shoulders, when he's in his late 20,s given he's probably a top 5-10 ruck anyway in his early 20's right now.
I think we were lucky to pick him at 18. I am amazed so many clubs ignored him. first time I saw him play, I thought this guy is ganna be a gun!
 

webbo

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Rucks take a long time to develop - maybe the nature of ruckwork itself, positioning, quick thinking in tapwork by reading the positioning of those around you, confidence to use your size, and so on, can only come through multiple years of experience, which is why so many of the best rucks in the league take so long to develop (and why there's been a recent trend away from drafting rucks early in the draft - they take longer to develop, and once they do, it's easier for them to be poached).

Look at all the players who got the most hitouts from last year:
Jacobs: Played 0 games in his first 2 years on Carlton's list, 4 in his 3rd, 13 in his 4th, was traded to Adelaide and has been their first ruck ever since
Ryder: Was a pick 7, played 9 games in his first year, but spent time as a key forward and key defender to develop before going back into the ruck: between games 19, his 10th in his second year, and game 56, his 4th in his 4th year, he averaged less than 3 hitouts a game, and was never 1st ruck
Mumford: drafted as a 22-year-old mature ager
Martin: Was another drafted in his 20's, never cemented himself at Melbourne variously playing key positions at both ends and through the ruck, traded to Brisbane and didn't cement himself as Brisbane's primary ruck until his third season there, at age 28
Grundy: Even he only played 7 games in his first year, and he's the outlier to these examples (and probably would have gone earlier in the draft if it wasn't for the "it's easy to poach" collective understanding of other clubs)
McEvoy: Drafted with pick 9, he only played 1 game in his first year, 11 in his second. Had established himself by the time he went to the Hawks but is clearly a much better player at the Hawks than he was at the Saints. Despite playing in their 2014-15 flags, he wasn't established in the best 22 of the Hawks team in either of those years, playing 6 and 4 games in the reserves in those years respectively
Witts: Drafted as a 19 year old, a year after he was first eligible, 0 games in his first year, 7 in his second, 20 in his 3rd, was stuck behind Grundy, traded cheaply, probably a top 10 ruck in the league right now

I could go on with all these other players, but the point is English is tracking above where all the other best rucks in the league were when they were his age (turning 20 year old season), except Grundy, and Grundy's probably going to be the best ruck in the league, head and shoulders, when he's in his late 20,s given he's probably a top 5-10 ruck anyway in his early 20's right now.
It also seems as though, this season in particular, there is a glut of quality rucks. Goldstein and Sandilands are waning in his powers, but are still decent, Gawn is a champion, Nic Nat is incredible only question is his body, Witts has had a great start and is probably underrated, along with Ryder, Jacobs and Martin, those are all rucks that can have a massive influence in a game on their day.

You're completely right. Young rucks simply don't do what he is doing. He is not only doing decently in hit outs, but he is getting the ball and when he does get the ball he isn't a simple side handball or hack it forward, but can actually think and make the correct decision, ball in hand. I think he is going to be better than Grundy, because Grundy doesn't have the same capabilities ball in hand, though isn't the worst in this area. There were a few times on the weekend where English flew for the ball, got hands to it but couldn't quite reel them in. In 4 years he marks them. Let's hope, like so many of those other rucks mentioned, that we give him what he needs to stay with us.
 

Testekill

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Grundy will be the better pure ruckman but I have a feeling that English will more than hold his own and have him covered around the ground.

They'll be an inverted Cox & Sandilands if you will.
 

Mofra

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Wasn't that what they said about him in his draft year?
Yep - because he was a midfielder at 16 until he had a growth spurt.
The old "never handball to a ruckman" adage has been thrown out the window, English is a seriously good ball user and at 206cm is guaranteed 1-2 chopping the arm free kicks per game.
 

True Dog

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This kid is a V12 barely running on four cylinders, there’s so much upside it’s almost scary. Just wait till he starts holding his marks (and he will) and impacting the score board. Lock him away now!!
 
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