English was a big positive today, he showed he belongs at this level and has a future.
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Epic Moz.With English looking the goods, I've just placed my $5 at $41 to $1 for him to win this year's Rising Star. I think we're due after being robbed a couple of times.
Another fantastic game.
It's bizarre to think about how much young rucks - Grundy included - tend to cop early in their careers. Yet here's English - the guy who was meant to take four years plus to develop - looking every bit a contributing AFL level first ruck. He is astonishingly good given his size, lack of experience and age. It is going to be an absolute pleasure to watch him develop.English is a very, very good footballer. Can't wait to see English Vs Grundy in 4--5 years.
Reckon he'll be another Dean Cox. He thinks and moves like another midfielder with ball in hand.
I've seen lots of midfielders do that.Reckon he'll be another Dean Cox. He thinks and moves like another midfielder with ball in hand. The only other player I've ever seen do that was Cox himself.
Rucks take a long time to develop - maybe the nature of ruckwork itself, positioning, quick thinking in tapwork by reading the positioning of those around you, confidence to use your size, and so on, can only come through multiple years of experience, which is why so many of the best rucks in the league take so long to develop (and why there's been a recent trend away from drafting rucks early in the draft - they take longer to develop, and once they do, it's easier for them to be poached).It's bizarre to think about how much young rucks - Grundy included - tend to cop early in their careers. Yet here's English - the guy who was meant to take four years plus to develop - looking every bit a contributing AFL level first ruck. He is astonishingly good given his size, lack of experience and age. It is going to be an absolute pleasure to watch him develop.
I think we were lucky to pick him at 18. I am amazed so many clubs ignored him. first time I saw him play, I thought this guy is ganna be a gun!Rucks take a long time to develop - maybe the nature of ruckwork itself, positioning, quick thinking in tapwork by reading the positioning of those around you, confidence to use your size, and so on, can only come through multiple years of experience, which is why so many of the best rucks in the league take so long to develop (and why there's been a recent trend away from drafting rucks early in the draft - they take longer to develop, and once they do, it's easier for them to be poached).
Look at all the players who got the most hitouts from last year:
Jacobs: Played 0 games in his first 2 years on Carlton's list, 4 in his 3rd, 13 in his 4th, was traded to Adelaide and has been their first ruck ever since
Ryder: Was a pick 7, played 9 games in his first year, but spent time as a key forward and key defender to develop before going back into the ruck: between games 19, his 10th in his second year, and game 56, his 4th in his 4th year, he averaged less than 3 hitouts a game, and was never 1st ruck
Mumford: drafted as a 22-year-old mature ager
Martin: Was another drafted in his 20's, never cemented himself at Melbourne variously playing key positions at both ends and through the ruck, traded to Brisbane and didn't cement himself as Brisbane's primary ruck until his third season there, at age 28
Grundy: Even he only played 7 games in his first year, and he's the outlier to these examples (and probably would have gone earlier in the draft if it wasn't for the "it's easy to poach" collective understanding of other clubs)
McEvoy: Drafted with pick 9, he only played 1 game in his first year, 11 in his second. Had established himself by the time he went to the Hawks but is clearly a much better player at the Hawks than he was at the Saints. Despite playing in their 2014-15 flags, he wasn't established in the best 22 of the Hawks team in either of those years, playing 6 and 4 games in the reserves in those years respectively
Witts: Drafted as a 19 year old, a year after he was first eligible, 0 games in his first year, 7 in his second, 20 in his 3rd, was stuck behind Grundy, traded cheaply, probably a top 10 ruck in the league right now
I could go on with all these other players, but the point is English is tracking above where all the other best rucks in the league were when they were his age (turning 20 year old season), except Grundy, and Grundy's probably going to be the best ruck in the league, head and shoulders, when he's in his late 20,s given he's probably a top 5-10 ruck anyway in his early 20's right now.
It also seems as though, this season in particular, there is a glut of quality rucks. Goldstein and Sandilands are waning in his powers, but are still decent, Gawn is a champion, Nic Nat is incredible only question is his body, Witts has had a great start and is probably underrated, along with Ryder, Jacobs and Martin, those are all rucks that can have a massive influence in a game on their day.Rucks take a long time to develop - maybe the nature of ruckwork itself, positioning, quick thinking in tapwork by reading the positioning of those around you, confidence to use your size, and so on, can only come through multiple years of experience, which is why so many of the best rucks in the league take so long to develop (and why there's been a recent trend away from drafting rucks early in the draft - they take longer to develop, and once they do, it's easier for them to be poached).
Look at all the players who got the most hitouts from last year:
Jacobs: Played 0 games in his first 2 years on Carlton's list, 4 in his 3rd, 13 in his 4th, was traded to Adelaide and has been their first ruck ever since
Ryder: Was a pick 7, played 9 games in his first year, but spent time as a key forward and key defender to develop before going back into the ruck: between games 19, his 10th in his second year, and game 56, his 4th in his 4th year, he averaged less than 3 hitouts a game, and was never 1st ruck
Mumford: drafted as a 22-year-old mature ager
Martin: Was another drafted in his 20's, never cemented himself at Melbourne variously playing key positions at both ends and through the ruck, traded to Brisbane and didn't cement himself as Brisbane's primary ruck until his third season there, at age 28
Grundy: Even he only played 7 games in his first year, and he's the outlier to these examples (and probably would have gone earlier in the draft if it wasn't for the "it's easy to poach" collective understanding of other clubs)
McEvoy: Drafted with pick 9, he only played 1 game in his first year, 11 in his second. Had established himself by the time he went to the Hawks but is clearly a much better player at the Hawks than he was at the Saints. Despite playing in their 2014-15 flags, he wasn't established in the best 22 of the Hawks team in either of those years, playing 6 and 4 games in the reserves in those years respectively
Witts: Drafted as a 19 year old, a year after he was first eligible, 0 games in his first year, 7 in his second, 20 in his 3rd, was stuck behind Grundy, traded cheaply, probably a top 10 ruck in the league right now
I could go on with all these other players, but the point is English is tracking above where all the other best rucks in the league were when they were his age (turning 20 year old season), except Grundy, and Grundy's probably going to be the best ruck in the league, head and shoulders, when he's in his late 20,s given he's probably a top 5-10 ruck anyway in his early 20's right now.
M8888888.... come on we all know you're looking for the uncontestedHonestly not fishing for unnecessary likes, just wanted to place this up in the correct suppository for future historians.
M8888888.... come on we all know you're looking for the uncontested
I've already liked this once in the other thread but it's worth a complimentary like ...Honestly not fishing for unnecessary likes, just wanted to place this up in the correct suppository for future historians.
I've already liked this once in the other thread but it's worth a complimentary like ...
Yep - because he was a midfielder at 16 until he had a growth spurt.Wasn't that what they said about him in his draft year?
Freo at pick 8 was one of the hot tips, between him and the kid they eventually took.I think we were lucky to pick him at 18. I am amazed so many clubs ignored him. first time I saw him play, I thought this guy is ganna be a gun!