Enjoy missing the rest of the finals Greene, you scumbag

King Harold

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At the end of the day I won't lose any sleep over this decision , but have I got this right ?
Serial offender pleads GUILTY of " EYE GOUGING" and this is the approprate penalty ?

AFL officials should be working for Trump , totally corrupt , not to mention their incompetence.
 

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Dogs Rule

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Just for context, Sam Burgess in the NRL was last night suspended from the first week of finals for...yep, you guessed it, hair pulling.

So, the AFL is this morning a dirtier game than the meathead game of NRL.

Hope the numpties at the AFL are pleased with themselves.
 

Dogs Rule

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A big problem with the decision is that it essentially sends the message that Bont/we should just have retaliated.
They’re so beautifully inconsistent.

Some of the softest rules of any contact sport yet you’re allowed to eye gouge and forcefully yank a players hair/head while he’s nailed on the ground unable
to defend himself.
 

DognBones

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The AFL tribunal is not a court of law or a part of the judicial system. At the end of the day the AFL is really just a business that has the ability to self-regulate. Legal concepts such as jurisprudence, public policy, common law notions justice, checks and balances through the ability to appeal to an independent higher authority, etc do not directly apply.
True, and this is why the AFL Tribunal and Match Review Panel has been a frustration to me and to, I dare say, the majority of football followers for decades. If we expect a process in which facts and evidence are fully and fairly tested and penalties are applied appropriately and consistently then we will continue to be sadly disappointed and frustrated by this AFL system. Those with long memories have seen it all before!
 

Mantis Toboggan

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There’s a few things I would like clearing up regarding video from the incident.

When the videos were first coming out they were accompanied by an image of Bontempelli gesturing to the umpire with his thumbs, as if to indicate an eye-gouge. I saw that maybe once or twice.

Then there was the image of Bont walking away from the incident with considerable bruising under his eyes.

And, finally, just as the tribunal got underway they kept showing Bontempelli walking around with a mouth full of blood.

Did all three happen in the same incident or is some of this just stock footage? It seemed that the narrative changed from eye-gouging to just some roughness around the face.

With no testimony from Bont and no video images showing an eye-gouge the AFL clearly saw an opportunity to dismiss it. However the footage of Bontempelli insinuating the gouge should have been enough to at least force the QC to ask Greene the question. Greene would then have been forced to plead guilty to the matter, or argue that it never happened. It would have been interesting to see what would have come of that. I wonder if Greene’s defence had access to all the same video footage as the AFL and knew they had nothing conclusive.
 

Northernsoul74

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There’s a few things I would like clearing up regarding video from the incident.

When the videos were first coming out they were accompanied by an image of Bontempelli gesturing to the umpire with his thumbs, as if to indicate an eye-gouge. I saw that maybe once or twice.

Then there was the image of Bont walking away from the incident with considerable bruising under his eyes.

And, finally, just as the tribunal got underway they kept showing Bontempelli walking around with a mouth full of blood.

Did all three happen in the same incident or is some of this just stock footage? It seemed that the narrative changed from eye-gouging to just some roughness around the face.

With no testimony from Bont and no video images showing an eye-gouge the AFL clearly saw an opportunity to dismiss it. However the footage of Bontempelli insinuating the gouge should have been enough to at least force the QC to ask Greene the question. Greene would then have been forced to plead guilty to the matter, or argue that it never happened. It would have been interesting to see what would have come of that. I wonder if Greene’s defence had access to all the same video footage as the AFL and knew they had nothing conclusive.
The cut lip was a genuine accident in a different incident.
 

Yojimbo

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It might have been bubbling and reached a crescendo, but this isn’t the end of it. This ain’t closure. And I do hope that we play the Giants in Melbourne next year. Cancel overseas travel, wedding plans and root canal surgery. The next chapter of this rivalry may yet be the most brutal.
I actually hope not, this is football not the bikie wars or the Milperra massacre or the infamous cider
riots from 2016. As a Bulldog supporter who is old enough to remember Tony Liberatore turning
attack dog I and I might be alone in this, but I was not proud, what they did under coaches orders
was not football. Paul Kelly, Matthew Knights and countless others were as innocent as Marcus
Bontempelli and just playing football. Be hard at the ball and respectful to your opponent and
hope those who transgress are punished it does not always happen, I have seen and felt a lot worse
hell even done a bit of white line fever stuff myself. The game is better without it.
 

dogwatch

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The AFL tribunal is not a court of law or a part of the judicial system. At the end of the day the AFL is really just a business that has the ability to self-regulate. Legal concepts such as jurisprudence, public policy, common law notions justice, checks and balances through the ability to appeal to an independent higher authority, etc do not directly apply.
The bolded has clearly been established!

However if an organisation sets up tribunals, MRPs etc to adjudicate on its own laws, hands out penalties and allows appeals it is operating a judicial system. I wasn't suggesting it had any formal link with the law of the land, but I was suggesting that there are common elements expected of any judicial system which include fairness, appropriateness, transparency and consistency.
 

dogwatch

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At the end of the day I won't lose any sleep over this decision , but have I got this right ?
Serial offender pleads GUILTY of " EYE GOUGING" and this is the approprate penalty ?

AFL officials should be working for Trump , totally corrupt , not to mention their incompetence.
As godoggies15 astutely pointed out earlier, the question of whether any eye gouging took place was carefully sidestepped at the tribunal so it will never be officially listed as an eye-gouging conviction. This might have been the aim of negotiating a guilty plea before the hearing commenced. We simply don't know.

Make of that what you will.

I agree it's time to move on. Retribution may happen but we shouldn't be planning it. I'll settle for karma.
 

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dogwatch

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I actually hope not, this is football not the bikie wars or the Milperra massacre or the infamous cider
riots from 2016. As a Bulldog supporter who is old enough to remember Tony Liberatore turning
attack dog I and I might be alone in this, but I was not proud, what they did under coaches orders
was not football. Paul Kelly, Matthew Knights and countless others were as innocent as Marcus
Bontempelli and just playing football. Be hard at the ball and respectful to your opponent and
hope those who transgress are punished it does not always happen, I have seen and felt a lot worse
hell even done a bit of white line fever stuff myself. The game is better without it.
Good point. I've been thinking a fair bit about Libba senior in recent days. He was our Toby Greene. While I loved the young Libba Sr I was certainly not proud of his tactics later in his career. A pretty unpleasant chapter.

I can't recall whether he was officially convicted of eye gouging or whether it was just insinuated. If he was do you know what penalty he got? The last player convicted of eye gouging that I can think of was Dean Rioli in 2003. He got 3 weeks.
 

godoggies15

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As godoggies15 astutely pointed out earlier, the question of whether any eye gouging took place was carefully sidestepped at the tribunal so it will never be officially listed as an eye-gouging conviction. This might have been the aim of negotiating a guilty plea before the hearing commenced. We simply don't know.

Make of that what you will.

I agree it's time to move on. Retribution may happen but we shouldn't be planning it. I'll settle for karma.
Well said DW...couldn't agree more...what comes around goes around.....another shame to all this after listening to some talk back radio where parents are ringing asking how are they suppose to explain what happened here to their children????
 

NBates

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Footy Classified:
“It was all Bont’s fault because Haynes ran into him...”
And they believe that sh1t. And Bartel - seriously I hope someone injures one of his family members tomorrow, and then gets off because it’s “retribution”.
Apparently it's all Bont's fault on SEN too. Not because Haynes ran into him but because Bont didn't give evidence at the tribunal. Oh, and also because Bont wasn't cited on the game where the Brisbane (? I think it as) guy got hurt in play.

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Testekill

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Apparently it's all Bont's fault on SEN too. Not because Haynes ran into him but because Bont didn't give evidence at the tribunal. Oh, and also because Bont wasn't cited on the game where the Brisbane (? I think it as) guy got hurt in play.

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Bont was in a no-win situation there; either he gives evidence and people think he's a snitch who broke the players code or he doesn't and everyone acts like it was no big deal.
 

NBates

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Does Gerard Whately think we're idiots?
People ringing up saying the guys got form and this hasn't been taken into account by tribunal's lame fine.
Whately says that eye gouging not proven and that Greene's track record actually means that the AFL target Greene more for indiscretions. WTF?!

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Sentinel

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Good point. I've been thinking a fair bit about Libba senior in recent days. He was our Toby Greene. While I loved the young Libba Sr I was certainly not proud of his tactics later in his career. A pretty unpleasant chapter.

I can't recall whether he was officially convicted of eye gouging or whether it was just insinuated. If he was do you know what penalty he got? The last player convicted of eye gouging that I can think of was Dean Rioli in 2003. He got 3 weeks.
Most recent I believe was Jimmy Webster at the Saints who copped 2 weeks for it in 2017.
 

Libba39

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Can all those non-racist supporters across the league who were booing Adam Goodes for being a dirty flog start giving Greene a booing too?
I was thinking the same. We just need some kind of marketing and communications strategy to kick it off.

For all those that would like to contribute I propose we meet at Zagames in Caulfield this Thursday. There's a great table only metres away from where younger Toby clocked a bouncer...
 

NBates

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The whole tribunal thing was a farce. The procedure, charges and outcome were clearly negotiated well in advance of last night. The actors merely spoke their lines in turn, keeping straight faces. :mad:

Wonder what our club made of it all. The tribunal now owes us, hope PG is keeping a ledger.
Media laughing at conspiracy theorists. We're all slightly unhinged, apparently.

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W W Biscuit

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I actually hope not, this is football not the bikie wars or the Milperra massacre or the infamous cider
riots from 2016. As a Bulldog supporter who is old enough to remember Tony Liberatore turning
attack dog I and I might be alone in this, but I was not proud, what they did under coaches orders
was not football. Paul Kelly, Matthew Knights and countless others were as innocent as Marcus
Bontempelli and just playing football. Be hard at the ball and respectful to your opponent and
hope those who transgress are punished it does not always happen, I have seen and felt a lot worse
hell even done a bit of white line fever stuff myself. The game is better without it.
I realise that I wasn’t clear, but I meant brutal at the contest. As in manic desire, hard tackling, running through the body of anyone who comes between us and the ball, relentless second efforts...that sort of stuff. I agree - no cowardly acts, no sniping, no hair pulling, etc. But I would like to see the Giants walk off shocked and bruised by our sheer ferocity to defeat them.
 

Triple Baileys

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At the end of the day I won't lose any sleep over this decision , but have I got this right ?
Serial offender pleads GUILTY of " EYE GOUGING" and this is the approprate penalty ?

AFL officials should be working for Trump , totally corrupt , not to mention their incompetence.
But they're not good enough to work for Trump.
 

maddog37

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Media laughing at conspiracy theorists. We're all slightly unhinged, apparently.

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I was thinking about this and I reckon most of us Dogs fans are slightly unhinged. We have a chip on our shoulder, hate authority and generally have a hard done by, us against them mentality.

Why wouldn’t we and I personally embrace it.
 

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