Enough excuses for Biglands

[Vader]

Also, if you're going to do that, probably may wanna take their time on ground in to account also. Biglands and Clarke's time is split almost 50/50, whereas White would spend a lot more time on the ground than Jamar.

Also need to take into consderation the number of games they've played.

Biglands hasn't missed a game yet this year. Clarke has only played about half.

 

[Smell The Glove]

Hey, anyone with a name like BIIIGGGGGlands you hafta keep

 

[GoSarge]

Also need to take into consderation the number of games they've played.

Biglands hasn't missed a game yet this year. Clarke has only played about half.

Going further, you may want to take in to consideration how many ball ups there are in a game. I would guess, due to their style of play, Sydney would have more than others (than say, the Bulldogs).

 

[jenny61_99]

And then, despite the fact that Clarke has only played 9 games, he is still in the top 20. Have a look at the list and see how many teams have two players in the top 20. Does that mean that those that don't, rely on one ruckman for the majority of the work?

These figures don't account for style of play, or EFFECTIVE ruck work (that is, balls tapped to advantage).

Again, despite the fact that Biglands has had a dirty year (according to your theory), Adelaide remain on top of the ladder. Something has to be working somewhere.

 

[GoSarge]

And then, despite the fact that Clarke has only played 9 games, he is still in the top 20. Have a look at the list and see how many teams have two players in the top 20. Does that mean that those that don't, rely on one ruckman for the majority of the work?

Yes. And those teams that primarily rely on one ruckman, have probably run that ruckman in to the ground up until now. White has had a big year and still has 5 games to go and potentially a number of finals against quality ruckmen.

Tough finals are a lot easier to cope with if your body has taken less of a battering during the year. Biglands and Clarke should be fresh come finals considering the maximum time either spends on the ground is usually approximately 70 minutes.

These figures don't account for style of play, or EFFECTIVE ruck work (that is, balls tapped to advantage).

Exactly.

Again, despite the fact that Biglands has had a dirty year (according to your theory), Adelaide remain on top of the ladder. Something has to be working somewhere.

I agree, although you cant really draw an exact correlation between effective ruck work and win/loss ratios, although I do agree, it helps.

 

[beartoo]

Need to add Maric's stats to the team stats to make sense of Adelaide's place on the list.
But you can argue the toss about stats forever. How many to advantage? How often does a KPP do the tap work in various sides? Etc.

 

[CaptainDangerfield]

And then, despite the fact that Clarke has only played 9 games, he is still in the top 20. Have a look at the list and see how many teams have two players in the top 20. Does that mean that those that don't, rely on one ruckman for the majority of the work?

These figures don't account for style of play, or EFFECTIVE ruck work (that is, balls tapped to advantage).

Again, despite the fact that Biglands has had a dirty year (according to your theory), Adelaide remain on top of the ladder. Something has to be working somewhere.

My stats comment went down like a led balloon. If we are talking "effective" ruckwork I would say the following stats are also damning. While I admit you can't blame this soley on the ruckman, surely they play a major role in these stats:

Plagarised from Stiffy.

We are:

7th in clearences
8th in center bounce clearences
4th in ball up clearences
10th in throw in clearences

I may be out of line with my comments but IMHO our rucks have been one of our main weaknesses for a couple of years now.

 

[Kickin_Goals]

Comments are not at all out of line, many of the oppositions goals against have been the result of Clarke tapping it straight into a running opposition players hands either straight down in front of himself or knocking into the corridor in front of their goal.
I remember one time him giving the ball to Yze to clinch the win for Melbourne in such fashion in a previous season and it happened often in the port game apparently Pearce is his friend.

They are both lacking in awareness greatly, how can Clarke have been playing so long and not know who's team he is on now...
I've seen him play one game well out of his lot this season, Biglands has been much more respectable and having Clarke out the games he was out seemed a blessing to me.

Either they expect their onballers to be in that position and perhaps they should well be but aren't making it, or they just aren't looking at what is going on.

It is likely a combination of both.
The midfield is very weak, Shirley isn't a reliable tagger and bar Goodwin so far the rest are not really mentionable in contested possession excepting perhaps Bode.
I would throw Mattner in there perhaps and obviously have Riccuito dance through there a bit also as well as Thompson, the other guys aren't winning possession they are tackling after their opponent claims the ball if they can or waiting on a spill.

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

Biglands and Clarke should be fresh come finals

Fresh is an understatement.

I remember Malcolm Blight when has was coach of Woodville being asked after a pitiful, soft performance if they'd picked up any injuries.

"Not a bruise" was his reply.

Biglands and Clarke were fresh at the start of the season, they're fresh now and they'll be fresh at the end of the season. Ready to go again in 2007!!! Longevity is a real string to their bow.

 

[macca23]

My stats comment went down like a led balloon. If we are talking "effective" ruckwork I would say the following stats are also damning. While I admit you can't blame this soley on the ruckman, surely they play a major role in these stats:

Plagarised from Stiffy.

We are:

7th in clearences
8th in center bounce clearences
4th in ball up clearences
10th in throw in clearences

I may be out of line with my comments but IMHO our rucks have been one of our main weaknesses for a couple of years now.

You can take a horse to water but you can't make it drink, Springy.

Make no mistake - it's not our rucks that are the problem. It's the mid-field. Last week in particular I could have screamed when our rucks continually hit the ball where our players should have been going to, but watched in frustration as a far more aggressive mid-field brushed us out teh way, and stole our taps.

The game starts and ends with the mid-fielders, and our boys owe us big-time at the moment.

 

[beartoo]

Yet we've only lost 3 this year. How often have we been absolutely caned in the midfield duels this year? We might be down in some games by a few possessions, but with the pressure we put on around the ground, most midfields can't capitalise on any slight advantage they gain in the middle.
West Coast had a blinder last weekend. Yes, they wanted the ball a lot more than we did. Watch for a dip in their form this week. I reckon that one took a heap out of them. I also doubt very much if they will play that way again this year. Maybe ever. Everything they touched turned to gold. They were kicking goals out of their bums. Crikey 26.8 wasn't it? Not a bad day at the office.
Clarke and Biglands are our best options in ruck for the finals this year unless Huddo can really turn it on in the next few weeks and run back into form and fitness. Let's hope he comes back okay from the injury. Time will tell, and calls for him to be rushed back into the side right away, or even in the next few weeks are crazy IMO.

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

You can take a horse to water but you can't make it drink, Springy.

Make no mistake - it's not our rucks that are the problem. It's the mid-field. Last week in particular I could have screamed when our rucks continually hit the ball where our players should have been going to, but watched in frustration as a far more aggressive mid-field brushed us out teh way, and stole our taps.

The game starts and ends with the mid-fielders, and our boys owe us big-time at the moment.

So, if they tap it to one of our players that's good ruck work. And if they tap it to an opposition player that's good ruckwork too, they were just let down by the midfielders.

Pretty cushy job they've got going.

 

[Crow-mo]

So, if they tap it to one of our players that's good ruck work. And if they tap it to an opposition player that's good ruckwork too, they were just let down by the midfielders.

Pretty cushy job they've got going.

yep. someone should be held accountable for another bottom 3 finish this season

 

[macca23]

So, if they tap it to one of our players that's good ruck work. And if they tap it to an opposition player that's good ruckwork too, they were just let down by the midfielders.

Pretty cushy job they've got going.

You've obviously never played as a mid-fielder.

I didn't say that if the rucks get the tap and the opposition get the ball that it's good ruckwork.

Ruckmen and mid-fielders have set plans and the ruckmen taps the ball to where the mid-fielder is supposed to be and they both know where that is. If the ruckman carries out his part of the deal, but the mid-fielder doesn't, then you can barely blame the ruckman.

Now if you re-read what I originally posted, you'll see that it has no resemblance to what you are saying.

A caller rang KG and Cornesy earlier in the week - was it you? - on a similar vein, and quite correctly they both stated that they thought our rucks had directed the ball to the right spot, but that they had been physically brushed out the way by the aggression of the Eagles mid-fielders.

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

Ruckmen and mid-fielders have set plans and the ruckmen taps the ball to where the mid-fielder is supposed to be and they both know where that is. If the ruckman carries out his part of the deal, but the mid-fielder doesn't, then you can barely blame the ruckman.

Now if you re-read what I originally posted, you'll see that it has no resemblance to what you are saying.

I read between the lines of what you originally posted. And made a smarty-pants observation. Don't get too defensive, I understand what you are saying - it is a partnership between the ruckmen and midfielders, a shared responsibility. Outside the inner sanctum though it is impossible for us to know where the system is breaking down. Although if we're talking whether it was Goodwin and Edwards being in the wrong spots versus Biglands and Clarke tapping to the wrong areas I know who I'd be backing!

Does anyone subscribe to the Grant Thomas theory that ruckwork is essentially irrelevant and that good midfielders simply read the ball off whoever happens to get the tap?

If KG and Cornesy think that Clarke and Biglands were good on Saturday then that is irrefutable proof that they were poor!

 

[jenny61_99]

Ruckmen and mid-fielders have set plans and the ruckmen taps the ball to where the mid-fielder is supposed to be and they both know where that is. If the ruckman carries out his part of the deal, but the mid-fielder doesn't, then you can barely blame the ruckman.

That's exactly what I was going to say. How frustrating was it to see a WC goal crumbed off our rucking last weekend? I kept screaming at the tele to get our boys in the right position... we could all see where they were knocking it to... why couldn't OUR players? I am hoping that what Harty said this week was true, they just weren't mentally "on" for that game... that part was obvious after the first four minutes.

Everyone comments how well drilled our team is, and when you watch a training session you see that. I think the connection between mind and body just wasn't made last week and we paid the price. Hopefully they will be switched on for Saturday.