Roast Enough is Enough

st_trav_ofWA

Premiership Player
Aug 17, 2015
4,041
11,304
AFL Club
St Kilda
I think because he's seen as negative people are ready to deny his opinions quicker than others. He's not got a soft posting style and I think it causes some people to feel anxious at the message he's sending. We don't know we have turned it around. We have changed things but realistically if we lose Stuv, Carlisle, Newnes, Brown, Armo, Roberton, Paddy and trade players like Bruce and Acres, we are really admitting the failed rebuild. Rather than double down on looking at drafting elite talent we are going to try to grab a few old guys who were A graders like Parker. We traded out of a lot of this draft on top of that.

To me nothing has really changed other than two assistants with a bit more idea that the guys we did have. A new coach will make us happy for a while because there is something shiny and new. The reality is we are going to need a miracle to not be starting again, sides like Carlton and Brisbane will jump us, Melbourne won't stay down and you could easily see us finishing second last next year, GC have been drafting good kids and if they can hold them they probably jump us in 2 years while we still go bin digging for a secret weapon.

Unpopular opinions are fine to argue, he always backs his thinking in well thought through arguments. I think people like to tell him about all the stuff he's done wrong rather than argue the point with him.
i dont think i did that at all i provided a counter argument to his i dont think i went him personally and if i did im sorry ... perhaps we need to look at it as the ying yang type thing ... i personally have a huge emotional investment in my club so i am naturally leaning to be more positive then negative on things with my club StC is the reverse of that
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

gringo2011

Premium Gold
Nov 12, 2011
24,387
52,765
Melbourne
AFL Club
St Kilda
i dont think i did that at all i provided a counter argument to his i dont think i went him personally and if i did im sorry ... perhaps we need to look at it as the ying yang type thing ... i personally have a huge emotional investment in my club so i am naturally leaning to be more positive then negative on things with my club StC is the reverse of that

I didn't mean to pull you up personally Trav, I think I just got through reading every one going after him and you happened to be the last on at the time. It's actually pretty rare to see you get angry at anyone.
 

st_trav_ofWA

Premiership Player
Aug 17, 2015
4,041
11,304
AFL Club
St Kilda
The danger is if we don't get on field right we won't have a club to need a stand unless it's in Tassie.
true to an extent but getting the onfield right has a huge chunk of chance and luck involved in it ... i mean you cant plan against losing Robbo to a heart complaint , you cant plan against Steven having personal issues , you cant plan against a highly rated junior not taking that step up... control the things you can control and Moorabbin, the relationship mending, the new revenue streams they put us in a good line to be successful ... we just need the team to catch up
 

StCicatriz

Brownlow Medallist
Aug 3, 2016
15,938
29,090
AFL Club
St Kilda
If my Richmond mates are anything to go by, don't follow them. They were the most pessimistic fans ever until the premiership and as soon as they have a bad quarter or game they lose their s**t like no-one else. Whenyou go to games against them they all seem to be like that. They make me look normal.
sorry i meant the club its self with its mantra of "accepting everyone for who they are and understanding they are unique in their own way" rather than expecting every player on the list to be the same.
 

StCicatriz

Brownlow Medallist
Aug 3, 2016
15,938
29,090
AFL Club
St Kilda
i dont think i did that at all i provided a counter argument to his i dont think i went him personally and if i did im sorry ... perhaps we need to look at it as the ying yang type thing ... i personally have a huge emotional investment in my club so i am naturally leaning to be more positive then negative on things with my club StC is the reverse of that
you literally labelled me a troll and not a true supporter of the club. it got personal.
 

gringo2011

Premium Gold
Nov 12, 2011
24,387
52,765
Melbourne
AFL Club
St Kilda
true to an extent but getting the onfield right has a huge chunk of chance and luck involved in it ... i mean you cant plan against losing Robbo to a heart complaint , you cant plan against Steven having personal issues , you cant plan against a highly rated junior not taking that step up... control the things you can control and Moorabbin, the relationship mending, the new revenue streams they put us in a good line to be successful ... we just need the team to catch up

They probably should have put someone into the recruiting role a lot sooner. The fact that since Jack Steven we really haven't found anyone A grade or above is pretty awful. Also the lack of clear direction seems to be hurting us longer term. I don't look at our list management and see any clear path in drafting or trades.

Marshall, Billings, Battle and Gresh have bucked the trend but aren't there yet.

It looks like grabbing random scraps and hoping for the best to me otherwise.

I agree that as far as off field goes they haven't done much wrong but the off field won't mean much if they don't start to focus on the core business. You never hear of teams up the top getting mentioned in relocation or mergers. In Melbourne it's getting dire, going to Docklands is depressing, it's cold and empty with no atmosphere. They have some half arsed game day stuff that makes you want to go to the toilet to get away from it and some apologetically quiet music playing. They tried canned cheering and then some chants that were meant to be picked up but fell flat. I don't know how to fix it other than start winning regularly.
 

st_trav_ofWA

Premiership Player
Aug 17, 2015
4,041
11,304
AFL Club
St Kilda
you're right. we are wrong. i'll make sure to stay within the boundaries set next time.

i don't know about you, but if i was going to throw something hurtful at a sains fan, calling them "not a true supporter" is about as thick as it can get football wise. given the whole thing is prided on loyalty and passion. when a number of people band together to do that, what do you call it? so i'm not surprised mowman and others have picked up on it. i'm not the only one who cops it. there are others. those who don't see anything wrong with expressing their difference of opinion, but get slammed down for it. i know others who feel a similar way on here who did NOT post how they feel, because of this exact thing that's occurred in the thread. then you labelled me a troll. i never did such thing to you.

so i'm not a true supporter. i'm a troll and that's just what you're prepared to put in writing for everyone to see.

if that's how you want to converse with fellow supporters then that's your decision. i want nothing of it and tbh i wish the whole thread would fall into the sea.

the reality is people do not like to hear a negative opinion on the club. it often starts out respectful discussing the points but very quickly it turns into a personal s**t fight, where they forget the person they are responding to is a saints supporter just like them. we end up treating them like they're an opposition supporter. i am just concerned about the club and express my concerns. that obviously really bothers people. i mean i don't even know why you're so upset, as you said you can cover my contribution moving forward and it won't hurt the club. my opinion as plugger said doesn't influence the club at all. others are adamant its on the right track. so why the constant s**t fights over this?

anyways on the club i'm concerned its not on the right track. beyond promises that it will be, the results show you it's not. now that may change, but i don't think its turned the corner and i honestly believe the people in charge do not know how to fix the onfield results. otherwise they would have done it by now. it feels like the clock and expectation has been reset and in 2-3 years time we will be having the exact same discussions. people know how i feel about it.

i don't have an any feeling towards Finnis, Richo or any other paid employee of the club. both of them are not saints fans. they are there for a career and the pay cheque. our club is just the opportunity. they are not the st kilda football club. they are passing through it. the fans are the club and always will be.
look letsbury the hatchet .. im sorry if you got hurt by the not a true supporter comment ... perhaps im guilty of reading to much into your posts but from my stand point a person who stops being a member on the proviso that the team hasnt made finals for nearly 10 years a person who is criticle of nearly everything the club does is the conter to what i feel a true supporter is ... its not about towing a party line , i can tell you there are many many things that our club do that have me pulling my hair out , many opportunities that we dont embrace that get ignored that frustrate me but that doesnt change my support ... now maybe your differant and thats ok but its not what i see as a the core of what a true supporter is .. but again thats just my opinion and end of the day im no one ..

you dont have faith in the ability to turn things around fine thats your perogative but i have hope that it will turn around .. i have hope that while we are a fair way back we have already made big steps from 2018 to 2019 so from 2019 to 2020 i can see even bigger inroads .. but its fine if you dont see it that way .. ill argue my point you will argue yours
 

Mat Mann

significantly pleased himself
May 14, 2009
1,911
3,346
AFL Club
St Kilda
Other Teams
Red Bull
........

Finnis is copping heat for not being "football" minded enough and i can see a point there in that mindset but i question isnt getting the key pillars of the club in place more important ? Finnis has put more time into repairing our image, repairing our relationships with local, state and federal government, building our home, creating a financial stream outside of footy to keep us viable.. now we have those things in place and they are starting to bear fruit we are looking deeper into the core business of football look at what we have brought in this year alone to the footy department all building a stronger club .. we will remove Richo (thats a full blown conclusion theres no doubt), we will get a new coach.. we have righted a few of the wrongs in our list and will continue to do so, our player development is being focused on as is our drafting and recruiting and we have made some in roads with some of our better performers this year not being the usual dependables ...

.....
agree with most of what you've posted except this.

The core business is Football, you can't put that aside whilst you concentrate on other things. The other things are important no doubt and Summers/Finnis deserve all the kudos for Moorabbin they get. but winning football games, that magic bullet can bring you sponsors, time, media, Fri/Sat night exposure, its a cure-all.

now we are 6 years on, still mired at the bottom of the ladder, not getting FTA exposure, not winning football games, fans are turning against you, media is asking those uncomfortable questions and AFL house is grumbling.

1 key appointment - A football boss who knows how things should be run and a lot of your issues are halved.
We've had Sexten who's Director of Coaching but who was actually in charge of the footy Dept?? the Head coach?

that's not taking your eyes off it, that's a dereliction of duty and outright incompetence, strong words yes, but hard not to see the case as well.
In year 5 we brought in Lethlean that many insist was an AFL appointment, who in 6 months makes far more changes than we've seen in the past 5 years.

I'd argue the 2 most important people in an AFL club (CEO aside) are the Footy Dept boss and your recruitment head. Without 1 we extend/appoint the wrong people, and with the wrong one we draft/trade poorly, both appointments we've got horrendously wrong, both faults lie at Finnis/Summers feet.
 

st_trav_ofWA

Premiership Player
Aug 17, 2015
4,041
11,304
AFL Club
St Kilda
you literally labelled me a troll and not a true supporter of the club. it got personal.
i said in my mind i would see it that way (rightly or wrongly) i cant help that from the body of work where you hold other clubs in such high regards and hold our club in such low regard that i would think that way .. as i said right or wrong its the way i look at it
 

StCicatriz

Brownlow Medallist
Aug 3, 2016
15,938
29,090
AFL Club
St Kilda
agree with most of what you've posted except this.

The core business is Football, you can't put that aside whilst you concentrate on other things. The other things are important no doubt and Summers/Finnis deserve all the kudos for Moorabbin they get. but winning football games, that magic bullet can bring you sponsors, time, media, Fri/Sat night exposure, its a cure-all.

now we are 6 years on, still mired at the bottom of the ladder, not getting FTA exposure, not winning football games, fans are turning against you, media is asking those uncomfortable questions and AFL house is grumbling.

1 key appointment - A football boss who knows how things should be run and a lot of your issues are halved.
We've had Sexten who's Director of Coaching but who was actually in charge of the footy Dept?? the Head coach?

that's not taking your eyes off it, that's a dereliction of duty and outright incompetence, strong words yes, but hard not to see the case as well.
In year 5 we brought in Lethlean that many insist was an AFL appointment, who in 6 months makes far more changes than we've seen in the past 5 years.

I'd argue the 2 most important people in an AFL club (CEO aside) are the Footy Dept boss and your recruitment head. Without 1 we extend/appoint the wrong people, and with the wrong one we draft/trade poorly, both appointments we've got horrendously wrong, both faults lie at Finnis/Summers feet.
i agree

our first footy boss was Pelchen. Finnis came in, didnt rate him and removed him in his first season. to get someone who was a bit more focussed on high performance. but this is where it gets weird. Finnis replaced him with Cox who had no football experience. he came from outside the industry and self confessed to having to rely on others for the football part until he got up to speed. We then moved Cox into the head of womens footy and replaced him Lethlean at the end of 2017. So we went 4 full seasons under Finnis with a footy boss that wasn't going to cut it.

Lethlean himself which sunny3193 first pointed out, only had 6 months of footy GM experience at AFLHQ, he instead comes from the commercial side. Now Lethlean may be good or bad, time will tell. He's come in and made change. It appears based on the change and comments, even with his limited experience he's found the footy dept to be less than ideal.

it's a similar story for the list management role. Ameet -> Trout -> Galgher. of all three Trout had the most experience within the industry as a recruiter but not a list manager. Ameet came from a contracts lawyer background at Toyota. Galgher comes from the finance industry.

people say my issue is that we haven't played finals. that's not why i am pulling my $$$. it's because i don't trust them to spend it wisely based on the appointments that have been made.

i feel we need new leadership.
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

st_trav_ofWA

Premiership Player
Aug 17, 2015
4,041
11,304
AFL Club
St Kilda
They probably should have put someone into the recruiting role a lot sooner. The fact that since Jack Steven we really haven't found anyone A grade or above is pretty awful. Also the lack of clear direction seems to be hurting us longer term. I don't look at our list management and see any clear path in drafting or trades.

Marshall, Billings, Battle and Gresh have bucked the trend but aren't there yet.

It looks like grabbing random scraps and hoping for the best to me otherwise.

I agree that as far as off field goes they haven't done much wrong but the off field won't mean much if they don't start to focus on the core business. You never hear of teams up the top getting mentioned in relocation or mergers. In Melbourne it's getting dire, going to Docklands is depressing, it's cold and empty with no atmosphere. They have some half arsed game day stuff that makes you want to go to the toilet to get away from it and some apologetically quiet music playing. They tried canned cheering and then some chants that were meant to be picked up but fell flat. I don't know how to fix it other than start winning regularly.
winning is the only way to fix that ... its a sad reality but when you lose the engagment is low ..
and look i do agree we have not drafted well and not snagged a star from the draft .. we do have good kids who could become stars but short of the trend in FA changing and us landing one i dont see it changing .. so what do we do? in my opinion we keep the path year on year we look to replace the players in the team with better options from the year earlier we replace Mav with Kent while not a massive boost its improvment ... do that enough and the improvment spreads ... unfortunatly the system of 4 years down before you spring back up is gone there is no fast rebuild unless you have the money and the power to buy your way back up .. its not going to be a quick fix but i think we are up to doing the things needed to get there ... the problem is at what point do more of our fans become like StC and lose patience ? and when that happens does the club scrap it all and start again only to put us further behind ?
 

Mat Mann

significantly pleased himself
May 14, 2009
1,911
3,346
AFL Club
St Kilda
Other Teams
Red Bull
i agree

our first footy boss was Pelchen. Finnis came in, didnt rate him and removed him in his first season. to get someone who was a bit more focussed on high performance. but this is where it gets weird. Finnis replaced him with Cox who had no football experience. he came from outside the industry and self confessed to having to rely on others for the football part until he got up to speed. We then moved Cox into the head of womens footy and replaced him Lethlean at the end of 2017. So we went 4 full seasons under Finnis with a footy boss that wasn't going to cut it.

Lethlean himself which sunny3193 first pointed out, only had 6 months of footy GM experience at AFLHQ, he instead comes from the commercial side. Now Lethlean may be good or bad, time will tell. He's come in and made change. It appears based on the change and comments, even with his limited experience he's found the footy dept to be less than ideal.

it's a similar story for the list management role. Ameet -> Trout -> Galgher. of all three Trout had the most experience within the industry as a recruiter but not a list manager. Ameet came from a contracts lawyer background at Toyota. Galgher comes from the finance industry.

people say my issue is that we haven't played finals. that's not why i am pulling my $$$. it's because i don't trust them to spend it wisely based on the appointments that have been made.

i feel we need new leadership.
I forgot about Cox but I posted a quote somewhere previously of his where he says he abstains from decisions because he doesn't know enough.
As for Gallagher, curious appointment indeed, but isn't he more of the numbers guy?

I can't for the life of me find the employees positions on the Saint's site anymore.
 

SaintsSeptember

Hall of Famer
Mar 19, 2008
36,939
22,960
Narre Warren North
AFL Club
St Kilda
Other Teams
.
i agree

our first footy boss was Pelchen. Finnis came in, didnt rate him and removed him in his first season. to get someone who was a bit more focussed on high performance. but this is where it gets weird. Finnis replaced him with Cox who had no football experience. he came from outside the industry and self confessed to having to rely on others for the football part until he got up to speed. We then moved Cox into the head of womens footy and replaced him Lethlean at the end of 2017. So we went 4 full seasons under Finnis with a footy boss that wasn't going to cut it.

Lethlean himself which sunny3193 first pointed out, only had 6 months of footy GM experience at AFLHQ, he instead comes from the commercial side. Now Lethlean may be good or bad, time will tell. He's come in and made change. It appears based on the change and comments, even with his limited experience he's found the footy dept to be less than ideal.

it's a similar story for the list management role. Ameet -> Trout -> Galgher. of all three Trout had the most experience within the industry as a recruiter but not a list manager. Ameet came from a contracts lawyer background at Toyota. Galgher comes from the finance industry.

people say my issue is that we haven't played finals. that's not why i am pulling my $$$. it's because i don't trust them to spend it wisely based on the appointments that have been made.

i feel we need new leadership.
I'd say the opposite, if you try to run the club using only people from "footyland " you'll come unstuck. Its a matter of balance.

Contracts management is fine for list management as long as the talent scouts are good.
Commercial background for a GM is fine.

Footy players come out of School, try to win games for a decade , then get thrust into what is essentially a business, where the product is a team.

Its a pity Brendon Bolton was a failure, because it propagates the myth that you need to be a top AFL player to be a good coach.
Similarly its a pity Searl was relegated to the AFLW , out of the way of the mates club that is the AFL.
Its the whole "mates club" thing that makes the AFL amateur hour.
 

Ricmel

Premiership Player
Jul 13, 2009
4,704
2,818
AFL Club
St Kilda
anyways on the club i'm concerned its not on the right track. beyond promises that it will be, the results show you it's not. now that may change, but i don't think its turned the corner and i honestly believe the people in charge do not know how to fix the onfield results. otherwise they would have done it by now. it feels like the clock and expectation has been reset and in 2-3 years time we will be having the exact same discussions. people know how i feel about it.
Well on this I think you are right to question. I have been extremely consistent in my messages on this board - the club needs to be called to account, St Kilda supporters are too accepting of mediocrity and the last 5 years have been largely wasted.

Go back to 2014 and the release of the 5 year plan. Of all the KEY objectives outlined in that plan, the club has hit ONE - the move back to Moorabbin (which my 7 year old nephew would have known to suggest).

Back to Moorabbin - Yes

Debt targets - "No" - debt in 2014 was around $9.7m, today is around $6.8 although against a much higher asset base. To be honest, I am not overly concerned with debt, the club has the balance sheet and AFL support to be able to carry that. But target met - NO.

Membership targets - No

Team performance targets - No

That scorecard, combined with no finals in 8 years and really looking like no finals for a few more - would have most boards overturned and shareholders marching in the streets.

Back to Moorabbin is a big thing and a big tick.....but I almost sense a "build it and they will come" mentality amongst both supporters and the club. The club needs to work harder. Where is our engagement with the Jewish community, a traditional stronghold, with the Southern region - Matt Finnis will tell you that is still a brand we purse "Southern Saints' - well they have buried it deep below Linton St. Our brand quite frankly is putrid at the moment.

With all of that (and a lot more) it is hard to see how this club has not done a turn yourself inside out, 360 degree, helicopter, top down, bottom up review.

Instead we have moved a few board seats - not really out of any sense of strategy but more a "times up" approach, changed a few key personnel in the footy department and brought in a new president - sounds significant but that is over a 5 year period.

I get we had the "false dawn", I get the move to Moorabbin was distracting, I get that we were starting from a fair way back in 2014. But as Gil McLaughlin RIGHTLY said last year, it is time this club took responsibility and stood on its' own terms. We have been given a rare asset - a large slice of Melbourne just about all to our own (Hawks move to Dingley could prove a masterstroke and I will not be at all surprised to see them pillaging our strongholds with their brand).

We are right to ask the questions and hold the club accountable. And yes, the odd fact in my rant is likely to be approximate - the jist of it I feel is our story of the last 5 - 6 years and pedants should stay away.
 

Mowman

Premium Gold
May 19, 2013
9,015
22,070
AFL Club
St Kilda
rubish... he like anyone on here makes a comment and its either supported or not if not its discussed the continual back and forward over the comment is not bullying ... no one has posted out of the blue anything hurtful to him .. no one has attacked him .. even pluggs who perhaps goes the hardest on trying to get people to admit they are wrong has stuck to the comment not the person ...
its fine to have an unpopular opinion but dont get bent out of shape when your unpopular opinion is (shock horror) unpopular
Disagree
 

Saintbloke

Club Legend
Apr 26, 2015
1,706
2,739
AFL Club
St Kilda
If my Richmond mates are anything to go by, don't follow them. They were the most pessimistic fans ever until the premiership and as soon as they have a bad quarter or game they lose their s**t like no-one else. Whenyou go to games against them they all seem to be like that. They make me look normal.
I spoke to a mate who follows Richmond yesterday and said Richmond were terrible right now, and just brushed off the win against the Saints as one that they expected to win regardless of form.
 

Mat Mann

significantly pleased himself
May 14, 2009
1,911
3,346
AFL Club
St Kilda
Other Teams
Red Bull
winning is the only way to fix that ... its a sad reality but when you lose the engagment is low ..
and look i do agree we have not drafted well and not snagged a star from the draft .. we do have good kids who could become stars but short of the trend in FA changing and us landing one i dont see it changing .. so what do we do? in my opinion we keep the path year on year we look to replace the players in the team with better options from the year earlier we replace Mav with Kent while not a massive boost its improvment ... do that enough and the improvment spreads ... unfortunatly the system of 4 years down before you spring back up is gone there is no fast rebuild unless you have the money and the power to buy your way back up .. its not going to be a quick fix but i think we are up to doing the things needed to get there ... the problem is at what point do more of our fans become like StC and lose patience ? and when that happens does the club scrap it all and start again only to put us further behind ?
the question is, are our heads just above water or are we under already?

can we afford another 4-5 years to rebuild the rebuild, will the stakeholders/AFL stand for another lengthy period of uncompetitiveness, or do we require a Melbourne level of intervention.
 

st_trav_ofWA

Premiership Player
Aug 17, 2015
4,041
11,304
AFL Club
St Kilda
agree with most of what you've posted except this.

The core business is Football, you can't put that aside whilst you concentrate on other things. The other things are important no doubt and Summers/Finnis deserve all the kudos for Moorabbin they get. but winning football games, that magic bullet can bring you sponsors, time, media, Fri/Sat night exposure, its a cure-all.

now we are 6 years on, still mired at the bottom of the ladder, not getting FTA exposure, not winning football games, fans are turning against you, media is asking those uncomfortable questions and AFL house is grumbling.

1 key appointment - A football boss who knows how things should be run and a lot of your issues are halved.
We've had Sexten who's Director of Coaching but who was actually in charge of the footy Dept?? the Head coach?

that's not taking your eyes off it, that's a dereliction of duty and outright incompetence, strong words yes, but hard not to see the case as well.
In year 5 we brought in Lethlean that many insist was an AFL appointment, who in 6 months makes far more changes than we've seen in the past 5 years.

I'd argue the 2 most important people in an AFL club (CEO aside) are the Footy Dept boss and your recruitment head. Without 1 we extend/appoint the wrong people, and with the wrong one we draft/trade poorly, both appointments we've got horrendously wrong, both faults lie at Finnis/Summers feet.
look i do agree our core business is football .. and i have no doubt that winning games of football is what the club want .. ill give you its taken too long , it certainly has persisting with guys like Trout , Hutchison and Sexton for too long also sitting too long on guys like Mcphee, Mcglynn even hammil as assistants and even Richo as coach .. i agree all of them needed replacing sooner but at the same time its the understanding that we are not a big club we dont just open the door and have the top of the top standing there wanting to come to our club .. we need to rely on the guys with some sort of baggage to come good .. Lethers a prime example ... Gubby another ..
i dont think for one second Finnis and the board held on to any of these guys when there were better replacments available , in fact im really sure that the instant better candidates were availble we moved them on or relocated them..
i guess the thing is with all appointments you cant really tell if you got it horribly wrong unless you know who the other options were .. what if the candidates for these key roles were so weak the spud we had was better than them ?

an example recently at my work we put out the call for a new person in a role we got 25 candidates 15 straight off the bat were not suitable of the 10 suitable 3 of them were worth a second interview .. from that none really filled me with confidence that i wanted to hire so i put it back out to advertise ... in an AFL system i dont know if you can do that and what can you do as a leader in that situation when the candidates dont live u to what you are looking for ... this is the point i make when people thow out the "replace him with someone better" for any role in a club unless you are reviewing the candidates how can you know who is better
 

gringo2011

Premium Gold
Nov 12, 2011
24,387
52,765
Melbourne
AFL Club
St Kilda
winning is the only way to fix that ... its a sad reality but when you lose the engagment is low ..
and look i do agree we have not drafted well and not snagged a star from the draft .. we do have good kids who could become stars but short of the trend in FA changing and us landing one i dont see it changing .. so what do we do? in my opinion we keep the path year on year we look to replace the players in the team with better options from the year earlier we replace Mav with Kent while not a massive boost its improvment ... do that enough and the improvment spreads ... unfortunatly the system of 4 years down before you spring back up is gone there is no fast rebuild unless you have the money and the power to buy your way back up .. its not going to be a quick fix but i think we are up to doing the things needed to get there ... the problem is at what point do more of our fans become like StC and lose patience ? and when that happens does the club scrap it all and start again only to put us further behind ?

160 years of ineptitude hasn't killed us off yet, the club will endure, as fans we have to trust that the people making decisions get it right. I'm a control freak who likes to do things myself because everyone else seems incompetent, having to relinquish control to others who are showing signs of stuffing things up is my nightmare.

Like politics, it's pretty hard to take control even through boards, you don't want a one man dictatorship but sometimes a bunch of weak willed yes men making wishy washy decisions is a recipe for disaster too. In the personality cult of St Kilda FC, Lethlean at least seems like he has some kind of plan for us. Right now I can't tell wether we have a messiah or a moron in charge. He does seem to have grabbed the whole lot of them by the balls and is making things happen.

I'm losing my patience at the moment and just hope it starts to get some momentum soon.
 

st_trav_ofWA

Premiership Player
Aug 17, 2015
4,041
11,304
AFL Club
St Kilda
the question is, are our heads just above water or are we under already?

can we afford another 4-5 years to rebuild the rebuild, will the stakeholders/AFL stand for another lengthy period of uncompetitiveness, or do we require a Melbourne level of intervention.
but whats the alternative ? its not as easy as sack everyone and the guys suddenly win games .. truth is a bad as richo has been removing him will put us back at least 2 years as the new coach comes in and makes his changes .. imagine that on a larger scale with removing a board ... now im not saying that you cant move on the board or the CEO or nayone but the realisation is removing it only puts the goal further away ... im more of the lets see how it go's from here view not change cause we are getting fed up .. Finnis and co have built the business side lets see if the changes in this year and next year improve us to compeate on field ..
 

Mat Mann

significantly pleased himself
May 14, 2009
1,911
3,346
AFL Club
St Kilda
Other Teams
Red Bull
look i do agree our core business is football .. and i have no doubt that winning games of football is what the club want .. ill give you its taken too long , it certainly has persisting with guys like Trout , Hutchison and Sexton for too long also sitting too long on guys like Mcphee, Mcglynn even hammil as assistants and even Richo as coach .. i agree all of them needed replacing sooner but at the same time its the understanding that we are not a big club we dont just open the door and have the top of the top standing there wanting to come to our club .. we need to rely on the guys with some sort of baggage to come good .. Lethers a prime example ... Gubby another ..
i dont think for one second Finnis and the board held on to any of these guys when there were better replacments available , in fact im really sure that the instant better candidates were availble we moved them on or relocated them..
i guess the thing is with all appointments you cant really tell if you got it horribly wrong unless you know who the other options were .. what if the candidates for these key roles were so weak the spud we had was better than them ?

an example recently at my work we put out the call for a new person in a role we got 25 candidates 15 straight off the bat were not suitable of the 10 suitable 3 of them were worth a second interview .. from that none really filled me with confidence that i wanted to hire so i put it back out to advertise ... in an AFL system i dont know if you can do that and what can you do as a leader in that situation when the candidates dont live u to what you are looking for ... this is the point i make when people thow out the "replace him with someone better" for any role in a club unless you are reviewing the candidates how can you know who is better
I agree that finding the right candidate is far harder in the real world, finding the right candidate in the footy industry would be harder still. It seems crax=zy to me to have no one above the coach without any industry experience. that's the reality of where we are. Cox ws set aside and replaced by who?

I'd say the opposite, if you try to run the club using only people from "footyland " you'll come unstuck. Its a matter of balance.

Contracts management is fine for list management as long as the talent scouts are good.
Commercial background for a GM is fine.

Footy players come out of School, try to win games for a decade , then get thrust into what is essentially a business, where the product is a team.

Its a pity Brendon Bolton was a failure, because it propagates the myth that you need to be a top AFL player to be a good coach.
Similarly its a pity Searl was relegated to the AFLW , out of the way of the mates club that is the AFL.
Its the whole "mates club" thing that makes the AFL amateur hour.
outside the box is good, sometimes, but for a position as head of a football Dept, where an understanding of all football facets is not a bonus, but a prerequisite.

Ex-coach's/ex Players will always have a leg up in that dept.
 
Last edited:

Mat Mann

significantly pleased himself
May 14, 2009
1,911
3,346
AFL Club
St Kilda
Other Teams
Red Bull
but whats the alternative ? its not as easy as sack everyone and the guys suddenly win games .. truth is a bad as richo has been removing him will put us back at least 2 years as the new coach comes in and makes his changes .. imagine that on a larger scale with removing a board ... now im not saying that you cant move on the board or the CEO or nayone but the realisation is removing it only puts the goal further away ... im more of the lets see how it go's from here view not change cause we are getting fed up .. Finnis and co have built the business side lets see if the changes in this year and next year improve us to compeate on field ..
I'm not advocating to sack everyone, not even advocating to sack Finnis as I think he's done very well outside of the Footy Ops, but if you fail to cover or get adequate help in the areas you are weakest in, then it brings down the show. I even advocated keeping Richo once all those other changes were made last year, but here we are after making no changes for so long that's going to set us back 1 or 2 years regardless.
 

Mat Mann

significantly pleased himself
May 14, 2009
1,911
3,346
AFL Club
St Kilda
Other Teams
Red Bull
160 years of ineptitude hasn't killed us off yet, the club will endure, as fans we have to trust that the people making decisions get it right. I'm a control freak who likes to do things myself because everyone else seems incompetent, having to relinquish control to others who are showing signs of stuffing things up is my nightmare.

Like politics, it's pretty hard to take control even through boards, you don't want a one man dictatorship but sometimes a bunch of weak willed yes men making wishy washy decisions is a recipe for disaster too. In the personality cult of St Kilda FC, Lethlean at least seems like he has some kind of plan for us. Right now I can't tell wether we have a messiah or a moron in charge. He does seem to have grabbed the whole lot of them by the balls and is making things happen.

I'm losing my patience at the moment and just hope it starts to get some momentum soon.
agree with Lethlean, whether its right or wrong at least change is happening, standing still is going backward, and in sport doubly so.
 
Top Bottom