Roast Enough is Enough

[StCicatriz]

Just out of interest how is it 1.3 million on Richo? I know people like putting mayo on their story to help but you know its one year not two. We were still playing under Richo last year whether he was extended or not. We were still only winning 4 games.

Relly apart from the richo extention every other club could have the same issues that you have raised.

Anyway you not giving your membership money next season should solve these issues. Not. If everyone felt the same as you then the club would fold. Yes fold. No members, no club. Luckily most don't stamp their feet and say im not joining until its all fixed. God knows how you tell if its all fixed if as you say it has nothing to do with not winning. Im pretty sure when you look in the mirror its all about not winning.

media reports are richo is on 650k a year. that's all we can go on. so unless media reports are wrong, that's how much it is.

 

[plugger66]

why are people obsessed with needing to know a ready made replacement based on public opinion. i doubt anyone on here could name 20 of the best performed CEO's in business within this country without googling for some financial results and company size to make their decision.

so why do we look at it and go, who do we replace him with? there's no one!

of course there's someone. we didn't sit there and go "well we have to keep netters or fraser because there's no one else".

the idea it's nisbet or cook is hilarious. they wouldn't even move to the pies. so it's not a case of club size or who we are. it's just they won't move.

there is always someone and that's the responsibility of the chairmain and board to find.

When was the last CEO you were happy with, even the last president. I will make it even easier when was the last time you were happy? A sign of madness is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result. Matt Finnis is working under extreme pressure being 10 million in debt. And nearly every move we have made in the last 2 years off the field has been a positive. I suppose when you only look for negatives its hard to see positives.

 

[StCicatriz]

It’s easy to dislike Eddie but for all his faults, I’d still kill to have him in charge at the Saints with the passion he’s got for his club. I don’t think there’s a better ally for any club than Eddie at Collingwood. They’re very lucky to have him.

couldn't agree more. he took them from a financial basket case to one of the strongest sporting organisations in the land.

what is interesting is they partnered with the dogs a while back to provide them with assistance, if i re-call correctly.

 

[plugger66]

media reports are richo is on 650k a year. that's all we can go on. so unless media reports are wrong, that's how much it is.

So how is it 1.3 million wasted. This should be an interesting answer.

 

[plugger66]

couldn't agree more. he took them from a financial basket case to one of the strongest sporting organisations in the land.

what is interesting is they partnered with the dogs a while back to provide them with assistance, if i re-call correctly.

But be honest you would have wanted Buckley sacked. Yes ?

 

[plugger66]

See above. On the fence, but early days. Hoping he gets better. He's certainly better than Summers so far.

Hasn't put a foot wrong as far as I know. Very well liked and very strong and does plenty around the club.

 

[StCicatriz]

So how is it 1.3 million wasted. This should be an interesting answer.

have you not seen the results? also that's before the you look at opportunity cost and the affect of a sub par footy dept.

 

[Mikka84]

Hasn't put a foot wrong as far as I know. Very well liked and very strong and does plenty around the club.

I like my men how I like my coffee. Robust.

Sending Lethlean out to do the media dirty work while Richo is fighting for his professional life is soft and fruitless. If this was Eddie or Smorgon or Gale, even if they believe Richo is gone, would come out and irrefutably back him in the media and public. If I'm the next coach, I'd want to know my President has the coconuts to stand in my corner when the going got tough.

 

[plugger66]

have you not seen the results? also that's before the you look at opportunity cost and the affect of a sub par footy dept.

Lets get this straight. You wont admit its not 1.3 million blown on the coach so you are now bringing other stuff in to it that exactly adds up to 650K. Defacto you are allowed to say I was wrong. It was 650k on the coach. Yes you are.

 

[projectv]

This is the first time since I've been a member (2012) that I've considered stopping. I don't want to, but I am sick of watching games that he's coaching. We're just shit.

I understand that there is more wrong with the club than Richo, but keeping him there is just making everything worse. With all the recent changes in coaches going on and potentially still going on (for example John Worsfold and Longmire).... now is really the time for us to be out there trying to land a better coach.

It's clear we are not going to make finals this year so I don't know why they won't pull the trigger. It was too expensive to sack him last year, there is less we need to pay out now.

 

[plugger66]

I like my men how I like my coffee. Robust.

Sending Lethlean out to do the media dirty work while Richo is fighting for his professional life is soft and fruitless. If this was Eddie or Smorgon or Gale, even if they believe Richo is gone, would come out and irrefutably back him in the media and public. If I'm the next coach, I'd want to know my President has the coconuts to stand in my corner when the going got tough.

Are you serious? You want him backed even though everyone knows he is gone. Imagine the uproar on here if he backed him. I must be missing something because I thought what Lethlean said was perfect. We were in a no win situation. We couldn't back him then sack him. We certainly couldn't say he is gone at the end of the year.

 

[plugger66]

This is the first time since I've been a member (2012) that I've considered stopping. I don't want to, but I am sick of watching games that he's coaching. We're just s**t.

I understand that there is more wrong with the club than Richo, but keeping him there is just making everything worse. With all the recent changes in coaches going on and potentially still going on (for example John Worsfold and Longmire).... now is really the time for us to be out there trying to land a better coach.

It's clear we are not going to make finals this year so I don't know why they won't pull the trigger. It was too expensive to sack him last year, there is less we need to pay out now.

Unless we negotiate or will cost is about million dollars to sack him now. Wait 4 weeks and it costs probably 150k. The AFL aren't going to let us do it now unless as I said they negotiate.

 

[projectv]

Unless we negotiate or will cost is about million dollars to sack him now. Wait 4 weeks and it costs probably 150k. The AFL aren't going to let us do it now unless as I said they negotiate.

It drops down a lot after 4 weeks? Fair enough, we're probably better off waiting four weeks then. But in four weeks a lot can happen, and we may have missed the boat based on who is + could be on the market.

 

[plugger66]

It drops down a lot after 4 weeks? Fair enough, we're probably better off waiting four weeks then. But in four weeks a lot can happen, and we may have missed the boat based on who is + could be on the market.

Pretty sure we started chancing coaches before the start of the year.

 

[Mikka84]

Are you serious? You want him backed even though everyone knows he is gone. Imagine the uproar on here if he backed him. I must be missing something because I thought what Lethlean said was perfect. We were in a no win situation. We couldn't back him then sack him. We certainly couldn't say he is gone at the end of the year.

Yeah I am. At the bye or before it, when everyone was starting to scream blue murder, Finnis or Basset were the person for the job to come out and put the fire out. Not the GM of football. Its salt in the wounds.

 

[plugger66]

Yeah I am. At the bye or before it, when everyone was starting to scream blue murder, Finnis or Basset were the person for the job to come out and put the fire out. Not the GM of football. Its salt in the wounds.

As long as the message got through I couldnt care if you did it. The words were strong IMO and that is all that matters.

 

[Mikka84]

As long as the message got through I couldnt care if you did it. The words were strong IMO and that is all that matters.

Fair enough. As I did say earlier.. he has a long way to go and think he will be a good President.

I'm just getting my knives ready when I want to run from Prime Minister.

 

[Drake Huggins]

Are you serious? You want him backed even though everyone knows he is gone. Imagine the uproar on here if he backed him. I must be missing something because I thought what Lethlean said was perfect. We were in a no win situation. We couldn't back him then sack him. We certainly couldn't say he is gone at the end of the year.

In Satan we trust!

 

[sunny3193]

Yeah I am. At the bye or before it, when everyone was starting to scream blue murder, Finnis or Basset were the person for the job to come out and put the fire out. Not the GM of football. Its salt in the wounds.

I do agree with plugger66 on this one.
The words were perfect and Satan has the gravitas in the industry to be the message man.
In fact, I thought it a Goldilocks choice.
Just right.
(Finnis had already made his statement prior to the China game if you’ll recall.
Bassat made his statement in his answers to members questions).

 

[Mikka84]

I do agree with plugger66 on this one.
The words were perfect and Satan has the gravitas in the industry to be the message man.
In fact, I thought it a Goldilocks choice.
Just right.
(Finnis had already made his statement prior to the China game if you’ll recall.
Bassat made his statement in his answers to members questions).

 

[StCicatriz]

Lets get this straight. You wont admit its not 1.3 million blown on the coach so you are now bringing other stuff in to it that exactly adds up to 650K. Defacto you are allowed to say I was wrong. It was 650k on the coach. Yes you are.

wtf are you on about? 650k x 2 is 1.3 million... thats where the number came from. my post suggested its higher than that though if you count the indirect costs!

 

[plugger66]

wtf are you on about? 650k x 2 is 1.3 million... thats where the number came from. my post suggested its higher than that though if you count the indirect costs!

But it’s one year. What are going on about

 

[StCicatriz]

But it’s one year. What are going on about

my god your comprehension is terrible! how long has richo been employed under his new contract that is reportedly worth 650k a year?

 

[plugger66]

my god your comprehension is terrible! how long has richo been employed under his new contract that is reportedly worth 650k a year?

One year

 

[st_trav_ofWA]

name them! i haven't heard that at all.

a 150k is nothing on a 60 million dollar facility. it's literally a deviance of 0.25%. in other words nothing. do you really think there is not similar things occurring in other construction projects including our own? i mean media reports state we've paid richo 650k a year. that's 1.3 million. i'd rather blow 150k on some stupid stuff on the moorabbin project than 1.3 on a coach none of us want to be there anyway.

also on WCE their retention rate within in their players is amazing. when they leave they stay involved at the club. they kicked off things a decade plus ago, that we have only just started to do now. it's not just about

its not just money either, otherwise we wouldn't have the capability to do it now. the difference is in the decision making and where you spend your money. some things don't require a full spend either, such as partnerships. the difference in football dept spend between us and the highest club is 5 million. 25 million compared to 30 million at collingwood. however if you compare us to WCE the difference in football dept spend is a tick over 1 million. richo's salary is roughly half of it. the value WCE have obtained is in partnerships and leveraging the people who have been involved in their club. something we have been incredibly poor in doing.

do you think that 1.2 million difference in football dept spend is the difference between success and not?

here's some things that are costing us now:
1) inability to get appointments right. across three major lines: Football GM, List Manager and Senior Coach. we are onto our 3rd footy GM. our 3rd list boss. we also appointed then extended richo twice.
2) lack of protection to remove richardson without a substantial payout given that was raised as a deterrent to removing him. meaning you are carrying a bloke to implement and oversee a football dept program that is sub par. which affects the core of the business, the onfield results.
3) inability to get the development pathway right during the development phase of the list,
4) draft blunders like McCartin at Pick 1
5) i disagree with this but its something you've raised before, the failed plan that was then binned. but from my perspective the inability to implement the actions required to meet the strategy outlined by the board,
6) poor onfield results that meant the we didn't realise the full capability of the new improved stadia deal,
7) financial losses accrued through 2013-2016.

we can go back further and look at what previous administrations have done. the problem is these mistakes stay around. they're big ticket items. it lingers. meaning the first thing even one raises when the new administration starts is how much legacy crap they have to overcome. so this stuff just keeps compounding.

im not going to give info on things told to me in confidence just take my word on the value of my reputaion as not a person to make stuff up that there has been at least 4 appoinments made in positions at the WCE that cost them money once they realised they were the wrong people for roles in the club ...

as for the facility let me just say if it was our club who blew that money in that way there would be all sorts of questions asked... im not talking about building setbacks or blow outs im talking a massive F**k up that cost in excess of $150k to fix ... im not saying any more on that matter but trust me when i say its not an acceptable loss ..

retention rate ... now you are talking out of your arse i highly doubt you have any clue how many former players of our club are involved in some capacity at our club.. if we are so poor in partnership with former players please list for me the former players who have out of football interest that is of benifit to our club we are not utilising ... surely if WCE are so far ahead of us in this aspect as you say you would have a full list at hand ready to go ..
as for footy department spend is based on the physical money outlayed to official employees by the club its self reported to the AFL, it doesnt factor in the staff working for WA football who are reporting back to both the WCE and the dockers .. for example i know a talent scout who is technically employed by WA footy through the swan districts football club that strangly enough spend 80% of his time reporting back directly to the WCE he is just one, in a state with two teams its very easy to get that kind of a leg up compared to a team in a state with 10 teams

here's some things that are costing us now:
1) inability to get appointments right. across three major lines: Football GM, List Manager and Senior Coach. we are onto our 3rd footy GM. our 3rd list boss. we also appointed then extended richo twice. - are you not saying we should be constantly searching for the best in the business ? isnt that what we have been doing in regards to the GM of footy? ... we blundered on extending richo but again name me a club who hasnt made an error on coaching
2) lack of protection to remove richardson without a substantial payout given that was raised as a deterrent to removing him. meaning you are carrying a bloke to implement and oversee a football dept program that is sub par. which affects the core of the business, the onfield results. - again its easy to say why didnt we have a clause to say we can sack him but thats not how contracts work, even if richo were dumb enough to sign a contract that allowed us to sack him without payout the coaches union would have gone us like no tomorrow
3) inability to get the development pathway right during the development phase of the list - again have you been to Moorabbin? Sandy Dragons will be based in the same building we will have direct pathways to the junior ranks in one of the strongest underage teams to produce players in the country.
4) draft blunders like McCartin at Pick 1 - please... name me a club who hasnt stuffed up a draft pick... real easy to sit back and take pot shot about our club drafting Paddy when the truth is we will never know what he could have become through no fault of our own
5) i disagree with this but its something you've raised before, the failed plan that was then binned. but from my perspective the inability to implement the actions required to meet the strategy outlined by the board, - so you slam us for sticking the plan with Richo but slam us for not sticking the plan with Pelchen ?!?!? come on seriously
6) poor onfield results that meant the we didn't realise the full capability of the new improved stadia deal, - we were rebuilding ... its not through choice we bottom out as hard as we did ...
7) financial losses accrued through 2013-2016 - areas we are addressing ...

honestly i could understand the walking away due to the terrible money managment during the Fraser era .. heck even in the Netters era but during this era with finnis when we are finally putting the wrongs right financially it doesnt quite fit