Roast Enough is Enough

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Norm Smith Medallist
Oct 8, 2016
5,172
10,542
AFL Club
St Kilda
I guess so, I just hope that others don't follow suit because it affects the club.
Next year after a couple good players drafted , new coach and playing finals our membership will be going past 60k with a bullet
 

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triggering bro

Norm Smith Medallist
Aug 30, 2017
9,337
37,389
AFL Club
St Kilda
StC is part of the furniture of the BF Saints board. I can remember him posting on here for as long as I’ve been around.

I never take anyone’s footy opinion to heart no matter how much I disagree. What I don’t accept is personal attacks because you don’t agree with someone else’s opinion. StC cops personal attacks more than anyone & bounces back up like a true champ.

Couldn’t care less who is a member, who isn’t a member, who supports Richo, who doesn’t support Richo. Play the ball.
 

Mowman

Premium Gold
May 19, 2013
8,980
21,926
AFL Club
St Kilda
StC is part of the furniture of the BF Saints board. I can remember him posting on here for as long as I’ve been around.

I never take anyone’s footy opinion to heart no matter how much I disagree. What I don’t accept is personal attacks because you don’t agree with someone else’s opinion. StC cops personal attacks more than anyone & bounces back up like a true champ.

Couldn’t care less who is a member, who isn’t a member, who supports Richo, who doesn’t support Richo. Play the ball.
Borderline Bullying some of the crap that he cops
 

DarkSaint

Club Legend
Sep 22, 2015
2,467
4,995
Hovering above you...
AFL Club
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Other Teams
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Jeeeeez did I open up a can of worms with this thread!

Anyways back on topic.

Outs:
Richo, Finnis, Dixon

Ins:
Members sanity

By the way speak about Dixon, with being the worse side in the league for conversion were is the spot light on him. Just because he is a media darling it seems everyone doesn't want to touch that subject. He should be the first person to be given the flick and I'm still gobsmacked that he is zapping the confidence out of our side.
 

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Mowman

Premium Gold
May 19, 2013
8,980
21,926
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St Kilda
Jeeeeez did I open up a can of worms with this thread!

Anyways back on topic.

Outs:
Richo, Finnis, Dixon

Ins:
Members sanity

By the way speak about Dixon, with being the worse side in the league for conversion were is the spot light on him. Just because he is a media darling it seems everyone doesn't want to touch that subject. He should be the first person to be given the flick and I'm still gobsmacked that he is zapping the confidence out of our side.
Dont forgot Sexton
 

Ricmel

Premiership Player
Jul 13, 2009
4,695
2,802
AFL Club
St Kilda
This year he has Finnis firmly in his sights for falling asleep at the wheel on football matters and I for one aren’t dismissing him at all but it is rubbing many up the wrong way.
Well in the words of Nick Dal Santo when asked why the Saints have stuffed up the last 8 years - "Leadership, culture, education, drafting, personnel".

It is great to have an "our sh#t doesn't stink" view of the club. It is comforting to blame everything on one bad egg. But sometimes you need to pull your head out of the sand and look around. Hawthorn has a club wide review when they lose 3 in a row. We are 8 years out of finals. The quality of our board is simply not at the level required to build sustained success.
 

st_trav_ofWA

Premiership Player
Aug 17, 2015
4,015
11,213
AFL Club
St Kilda
I’m not sure I like the way StCicatriz is being painted in this conversation. It’s too simplistic to paint him (or anyone) as more or less of a “real” supporter based on whether or not they are a member.

To give him credit and whether you agree with him or not, St C is very clear on what he thinks the issue is with our club. And I have no doubt at all that he is just as clear when he talks with our membership department. We need supporters like him and I have a lot of respect for the likes of him and Mowman that took the time to articulate their (in my view) warranted concerns about the club and what they were doing wrong last year.

Just as I have enormous respect for the posters on here that give their time at the club and give us an insight on what is going on there.

St C is a funny one because, when I was a fully-fledged member of the “the club is on the right track, road to 2018 here we come" his posting would rub me the wrong way. But when you look back on it, he hasn’t been wrong on too much really. He went earlier than anyone on the “our development is way behind other clubs” well before others did. Just maybe he knows about this from watching his local club closely? I have little doubt now that what he’s been saying for a long time (that he’d trust his local WAFL club to develop young talent more than St Kilda) is 100% on the money for what it’s worth.

This year he has Finnis firmly in his sights for falling asleep at the wheel on football matters and I for one aren’t dismissing him at all but it is rubbing many up the wrong way.

For what it’s worth, I think how the club has handled Richo and football matters looks worse by the year and I worry we are still in for a world of pain until Richo is replaced at the very least. Largely because of this, I downgraded my and my wife’s membership last year and this year after going all in with the most expensive membership and social club package I could from 2012 onward (because I BELIEVED in the road to 2018 and thought the club could use the extra cash). I never get to games being overseas and my Swedish wife has never seen a game live so it’s a donation…. But I’d give the same and more in the future if I saw what I consider to be competent FOOTBALL decisions made about coaching and other things.

This club is at a serious crossroads in my opinion. For me, it reminds me of an addicted family member that keeps messing up and promises they will get better. Some members of the family will say “you have to stick by them no matter what”. Others will have limits and say “we need to let them hit rock-bottom, we need to stop enabling them”. No one is wrong in this situation, both are done from a place of love.

I personally think strongly articulating their dissatisfaction with decisions the club has made like St C and Mowman have done is better for the health of the club than just giving money to the club silently. And it’s probably better for their mental health as well.

At the end of the day, St Kilda is a family member for pretty much all of us and it is no wonder given the years since 2010 we are struggling to keep the faith. But there is no need to turn on other supporters and question their love for the club because they have a different set of beliefs about how to turn things around.
again i have no issue on a person deciding they have had enough .. i think its strange to post it in a way that makes it a badge of honour but on we go ..
the thing i feel strange is the timing of it .. we all admit mistakes have been made but why jump ship now that the club are actually righting the ship from the stuff ups they have made ?
we now have Moorabbin up and running - its a fantastic place with the equal of any profesional sports team facility it is setting up our club for not only providing the best for our players but also bringing in the people to our club, the next stage of the facility with its comercial space and the public facility is going to not only help us financially but help us inbed in the community and i presonally think set our club up for the next 30 years.. this project alone has been a monumental task and a task that quite honestly i could not have seen any club leaders in our history being able to pull off.. im not exagerating when i say i firmly belive this one project is the defining moment in our clubs history my only wish was that we had the people to do this back in 2009 as this with out team flying we would be pumping ...

Coaching - we all know now Richo was a mistake , we know the extention was premature and it has bit us and bit us hard.. the thing that StC looks at is the fact we made the error and havent fixed it straight away, not my veiw on that differs a lot .. i think for the first time in our history we have done the mature thing the wise thing the cost effective thing with the mess of Richo.. sacking him last year costs us big money in a payout to him, it puts us under the spotlight even further from AFL house because if we can afford to pay out a coach why cant we pay off more of our debt.. given the pretty universal view that our club is laking the star power to be a truely competitive team for the flag i ask you is it worth all the negative costing of sacking the coach early for lets be honest zero on field benefit? is it not smarter practice to strengthen the support around the coach and then wait for the contract to enter the time where the safe guard protections allow us to remove him without the costly payout and the eye of the AFL bearing down on us ?

Finnis is copping heat for not being "football" minded enough and i can see a point there in that mindset but i question isnt getting the key pillars of the club in place more important ? Finnis has put more time into repairing our image, repairing our relationships with local, state and federal government, building our home, creating a financial stream outside of footy to keep us viable.. now we have those things in place and they are starting to bear fruit we are looking deeper into the core business of football look at what we have brought in this year alone to the footy department all building a stronger club .. we will remove Richo (thats a full blown conclusion theres no doubt), we will get a new coach.. we have righted a few of the wrongs in our list and will continue to do so, our player development is being focused on as is our drafting and recruiting and we have made some in roads with some of our better performers this year not being the usual dependables ...

i get having enough but he is walking out just as its turning the corner ... the wrongs of the past are just that the past.. that doesnt mean we will be perfect from here on out , far from it we will prob make more mistakes along the way but where we are today in the big picture is miles ahead of where we were in 09/10 with the exception of our win /loss ratio

 

st_trav_ofWA

Premiership Player
Aug 17, 2015
4,015
11,213
AFL Club
St Kilda
Borderline Bullying some of the crap that he cops
rubish... he like anyone on here makes a comment and its either supported or not if not its discussed the continual back and forward over the comment is not bullying ... no one has posted out of the blue anything hurtful to him .. no one has attacked him .. even pluggs who perhaps goes the hardest on trying to get people to admit they are wrong has stuck to the comment not the person ...
its fine to have an unpopular opinion but dont get bent out of shape when your unpopular opinion is (shock horror) unpopular
 

st_trav_ofWA

Premiership Player
Aug 17, 2015
4,015
11,213
AFL Club
St Kilda
That’s what you can do. Of course you thought it was over the top
it was over the top Pluggs ... hence i said "let it go"
we have had our run ins before where you are like a dog with a bone on something ... its not a point scoring thing sometimes it would be good if your posting style would let things through to the keeper every now and then ... really in the grand picture of it what you kept on banging on for him to admit was not exactly pivital information
 

st_trav_ofWA

Premiership Player
Aug 17, 2015
4,015
11,213
AFL Club
St Kilda
Jeeeeez did I open up a can of worms with this thread!

Anyways back on topic.

Outs:
Richo, Finnis, Dixon

Ins:
Members sanity

By the way speak about Dixon, with being the worse side in the league for conversion were is the spot light on him. Just because he is a media darling it seems everyone doesn't want to touch that subject. He should be the first person to be given the flick and I'm still gobsmacked that he is zapping the confidence out of our side.
2 out of three aint bad .... personally i think in 20 years time we will look back at this era and what Finnis has done for the long term survival of our club and he would be deserving of a stand named after him ...
thats how much i rate the moorabbin move in the importance of our club ...
 

gringo2011

Premium Gold
Nov 12, 2011
24,320
52,536
Melbourne
AFL Club
St Kilda
rubish... he like anyone on here makes a comment and its either supported or not if not its discussed the continual back and forward over the comment is not bullying ... no one has posted out of the blue anything hurtful to him .. no one has attacked him .. even pluggs who perhaps goes the hardest on trying to get people to admit they are wrong has stuck to the comment not the person ...
its fine to have an unpopular opinion but dont get bent out of shape when your unpopular opinion is (shock horror) unpopular

I think because he's seen as negative people are ready to deny his opinions quicker than others. He's not got a soft posting style and I think it causes some people to feel anxious at the message he's sending. We don't know we have turned it around. We have changed things but realistically if we lose Stuv, Carlisle, Newnes, Brown, Armo, Roberton, Paddy and trade players like Bruce and Acres, we are really admitting the failed rebuild. Rather than double down on looking at drafting elite talent we are going to try to grab a few old guys who were A graders like Parker. We traded out of a lot of this draft on top of that.

To me nothing has really changed other than two assistants with a bit more idea that the guys we did have. A new coach will make us happy for a while because there is something shiny and new. The reality is we are going to need a miracle to not be starting again, sides like Carlton and Brisbane will jump us, Melbourne won't stay down and you could easily see us finishing second last next year, GC have been drafting good kids and if they can hold them they probably jump us in 2 years while we still go bin digging for a secret weapon.

Unpopular opinions are fine to argue, he always backs his thinking in well thought through arguments. I think people like to tell him about all the stuff he's done wrong rather than argue the point with him.
 

gringo2011

Premium Gold
Nov 12, 2011
24,320
52,536
Melbourne
AFL Club
St Kilda
2 out of three aint bad .... personally i think in 20 years time we will look back at this era and what Finnis has done for the long term survival of our club and he would be deserving of a stand named after him ...
thats how much i rate the moorabbin move in the importance of our club ...

The danger is if we don't get on field right we won't have a club to need a stand unless it's in Tassie.
 

plugger66

Brownlow Medallist
Jan 10, 2011
17,471
27,273
AFL Club
St Kilda
Other Teams
Ormond AFC
it was over the top Pluggs ... hence i said "let it go"
we have had our run ins before where you are like a dog with a bone on something ... its not a point scoring thing sometimes it would be good if your posting style would let things through to the keeper every now and then ... really in the grand picture of it what you kept on banging on for him to admit was not exactly pivital information
And yet you are the one who keeps it going. I don’t tell you how to post so please don’t tell me. As if I’m going to take any notice of it. I do take notice of people I know. We are all just a bulls**t name on the internet.
 

StCicatriz

Brownlow Medallist
Aug 3, 2016
15,909
28,992
AFL Club
St Kilda
And yet you are the one who keeps it going. I don’t tell you how to post so please don’t tell me. As if I’m going to take any notice of it. I do take notice of people I know. We are all just a bulls**t name on the internet.
we as a forum could take a leaf out of richmonds book. that's for sure.
 

StCicatriz

Brownlow Medallist
Aug 3, 2016
15,909
28,992
AFL Club
St Kilda
rubish... he like anyone on here makes a comment and its either supported or not if not its discussed the continual back and forward over the comment is not bullying ... no one has posted out of the blue anything hurtful to him .. no one has attacked him .. even pluggs who perhaps goes the hardest on trying to get people to admit they are wrong has stuck to the comment not the person ...
its fine to have an unpopular opinion but dont get bent out of shape when your unpopular opinion is (shock horror) unpopular
you're right. we are wrong. i'll make sure to stay within the boundaries set next time.

i don't know about you, but if i was going to throw something hurtful at a sains fan, calling them "not a true supporter" is about as thick as it can get football wise. given the whole thing is prided on loyalty and passion. when a number of people band together to do that, what do you call it? so i'm not surprised mowman and others have picked up on it. i'm not the only one who cops it. there are others. those who don't see anything wrong with expressing their difference of opinion, but get slammed down for it. i know others who feel a similar way on here who did NOT post how they feel, because of this exact thing that's occurred in the thread. then you labelled me a troll. i never did such thing to you.

so i'm not a true supporter. i'm a troll and that's just what you're prepared to put in writing for everyone to see.

if that's how you want to converse with fellow supporters then that's your decision. i want nothing of it and tbh i wish the whole thread would fall into the sea.

the reality is people do not like to hear a negative opinion on the club. it often starts out respectful discussing the points but very quickly it turns into a personal s**t fight, where they forget the person they are responding to is a saints supporter just like them. we end up treating them like they're an opposition supporter. i am just concerned about the club and express my concerns. that obviously really bothers people. i mean i don't even know why you're so upset, as you said you can cover my contribution moving forward and it won't hurt the club. my opinion as plugger said doesn't influence the club at all. others are adamant its on the right track. so why the constant s**t fights over this?

anyways on the club i'm concerned its not on the right track. beyond promises that it will be, the results show you it's not. now that may change, but i don't think its turned the corner and i honestly believe the people in charge do not know how to fix the onfield results. otherwise they would have done it by now. it feels like the clock and expectation has been reset and in 2-3 years time we will be having the exact same discussions. people know how i feel about it.

i don't have an any feeling towards Finnis, Richo or any other paid employee of the club. both of them are not saints fans. they are there for a career and the pay cheque. our club is just the opportunity. they are not the st kilda football club. they are passing through it. the fans are the club and always will be.
 
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gringo2011

Premium Gold
Nov 12, 2011
24,320
52,536
Melbourne
AFL Club
St Kilda
we as a forum could take a leaf out of richmonds book. that's for sure.

If my Richmond mates are anything to go by, don't follow them. They were the most pessimistic fans ever until the premiership and as soon as they have a bad quarter or game they lose their s**t like no-one else. Whenyou go to games against them they all seem to be like that. They make me look normal.
 
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