Enough is enough

[kane249]

Hey look, I don't want to be that guy but you keep writing "then".

There's enough Nazi talk in this thread without you introducing the grammar variety

 

[Feerits Elf]

There's enough Nazi talk in this thread without you introducing the grammar variety

You can't dispute that red white and black is a very striking colour combination

 

[kreuze_missile]

The only way the AFL pays up is when the lawyers get involved.

Won't be much left in the bank once Cyril and the CTE class action settles.

 

[iameviljez]

You can't dispute that red white and black is a very striking colour combination

You're missing a comma, arguably two.

 

[GoEaglesGoSGIO]

You could throw every cent in the world at suicide prevention and it would be wasted.

Money doesnt solve cultural or mental health issues.

Should more be done? Probably...but most of the time people have no idea what others are going through privately, and until that changes there isnt a lot that can be done.

It does help... Its a sad reality but its still true

The more money you have the better the helo you get the better chance of improvement you have

Its the reality of life

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Because of the hundreds of people saying otherwise? You cherry picked 1 person who agrees its good enough and you got lawsuits and many others saying its not..

This isnt a issue of just 3 days. Its much much deeper then that. Its just enough being enough at this point.

When you got people like Greg Williams saying they cant remember their life because of AFL I kind of think Callum Chambers opinions on support isnt the one I want to focus on... You can focus on that. Id like to bring attention to

Hundreds of people say otherwise, where?

Are you misconstruing lawsuits around concussion with a lack of support for players?

I’ll say it again do we even know the cause of death for Selwood or Hunter, and do we know that it’s a result of a lack of support?

 

[Feerits Elf]

You're missing a comma, arguably two.

I don't think two is arguable

 

[GoEaglesGoSGIO]

Hundreds of people say otherwise, where?

Are you misconstruing lawsuits around concussion with a lack of support for players?

I’ll say it again do we even know the cause of death for Selwood or Hunter, and do we know that it’s a result of a lack of support?

Nothing to miscontrue. Support for players health post career is lacking.

Pretending mental health and CTE support cant be linked doesnt make any sense

 

[mick500]

Dancing around the subject and losing 1 more life cant happen.

FIX IT NOW!!!!

Not to be a smartass but the general consensus on here has been "boys will be boys.. everyone gets on the goey sometimes". So if the same people can't acknowledge it's a real problem it won't get the attention it needs and deserves. I'm not saying I've never done it, but I'm not a professional athlete with the disposable income these guys have or the fans and adrenaline of playing AFL week in week out then needing to adjust to a life of emptiness.

Then you've got the era that some of these deaths have come from. John Worsfold was well aware of the drug culture. I saw an interview with Worsfold who said he talked to cousins about the drug culture and cousins said "How do you know what it's like, you've never tried it" and worsefolds response was "You're right , I really don't know what it's like". Legit. He was a pharmacist. He should have had some idea about it. And as a coach of young men it was his responsibility to do something about it. He didn't. Not the AFL's fault.

 

[iameviljez]

I don't think two is arguable

I'm a big Oxford Comma fan. Will die on this hill

 

[iameviljez]

but the general consensus on here has been "boys will be boys.. everyone gets on the goey sometimes"

I don't think that's quite the consensus as it were.

If anything, I think there's zero consensus here at all.

 

[GoEaglesGoSGIO]

Not to be a smartass but the general consensus on here has been "boys will be boys.. everyone gets on the goey sometimes". So if the same people can't acknowledge it's a real problem it won't get the attention it needs and deserves. I'm not saying I've never done it, but I'm not a professional athlete with the disposable income these guys have or the fans and adrenaline of playing AFL week in week out then needing to adjust to a life of emptiness.

Then you've got the era that some of these deaths have come from. John Worsfold was well aware of the drug culture. I saw an interview with Worsfold who said he talked to cousins about the drug culture and cousins said "How do you know what it's like, you've never tried it" and worsefolds response was "You're right , I really don't know what it's like". Legit. He was a pharmacist. He should have had some idea about it. And as a coach of young men it was his responsibility to do something about it. He didn't. Not the AFL's fault.

I dont disagree with that aspect but its also the AFLs long term responsiblity too.... AFL cant abandon someone because someone else to blame is around...

 

[iameviljez]

cousins said "How do you know what it's like, you've never tried it" and worsefolds response was "You're right , I really don't know what it's like". Legit. He was a pharmacist. He should have had some idea about it.

I think you're misunderstanding what Worsfold was saying there - he's just saying that he doesn't know what the drugs feel like.

If you're a psychiatrist, for example, you can use all kinds of words to tell me what OCD feels like - but unless you have OCD, you don't know what it's like.

 

[iameviljez]

More and more Young Men are dying because of the COVID Vaccines. No one in the Media wants to talk about it they want to blame Illicit Drugs instead.

Oh ****, we've come full circle. Nobody in the media wants to talk about people stampeded by pink elephants either, for the same reasons.

 

[Leeda]

Dangerfield should be advocating for that instead of a crusade to shorten quarter length.

The hats in the ring...sou rice of eddie

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Nothing to miscontrue. Support for players health post career is lacking.

Pretending mental health and CTE support cant be linked doesnt make any sense

Show me the hundreds of people who contradict the actual ex player who says the support is good enough.

This was your claim.



Show me the cause of death and….. the direct link to a lack of support by the AFL or AFLPA. All I’ve seen from you in this thread is you jumping to conclusions.

I’m not pretending mental health and CTE can’t be linked. You made a claim that a lack of support for ex-players was the reason for lawsuits, when it’s far more nuanced than that and more directly involving the lack of understanding and management of concussion during players careers by the AFL and its clubs.

 

[iameviljez]

Show me the hundreds of people who contradict the actual ex player who says the support is good enough.

This was your claim.



Show me the cause of death and….. the direct link to a lack of support by the AFL or AFLPA. All I’ve seen from you in this thread is you jumping to conclusions.

I’m not pretending mental health and CTE can’t be linked. You made a claim that a lack of support for ex-players was the reason for lawsuits, when it’s far more nuanced than that and more directly involving the lack of understanding and management of concussion during players careers by the AFL and its clubs.

And to be fair, they aren't necessarily suing for negligence so much as they are suing for compensation. They are two different things - 1) to say that the AFL was negligent in its duty, and 2) to say that their careers have damaged their health and they should be compensated for it.

 

[Feerits Elf]

And to be fair, they aren't necessarily suing for negligence so much as they are suing for compensation. They are two different things - 1) to say that the AFL was negligent in its duty, and 2) to say that their careers have damaged their health and they should be compensated for it.

Are you drawing a distinction between common law claims for damages and statutory compensation schemes?

 

[Doashuey]

Oh ****, we've come full circle. Nobody in the media wants to talk about people stampeded by pink elephants either, for the same reasons.

Pink lives matter?

 

[GoEaglesGoSGIO]

Show me the hundreds of people who contradict the actual ex player who says the support is good enough.

This was your claim.



Show me the cause of death and….. the direct link to a lack of support by the AFL or AFLPA. All I’ve seen from you in this thread is you jumping to conclusions.

I’m not pretending mental health and CTE can’t be linked. You made a claim that a lack of support for ex-players was the reason for lawsuits, when it’s far more nuanced than that and more directly involving the lack of understanding and management of concussion during players careers by the AFL and its clubs.

The lawsuits is a good start. Many have spoken up about it. Harley Balics dad, Daniel Chick, Brad Sheppard, Jeff Farmer, Poly Farmer. List goes on. I cant really post 300 articles for you

Show you the cause of death meaning what? Harley Balic, Shane Yarran, Danny Frawley, Shane Tuck causes have been proven.... and we ignored it. The last 3 days is just the continuation not the beginning

The literal lawsuit is about everything you are saying in the last paragraph. If you believe it isnt you are misinterpeting the case

 

[mick500]

I think you're misunderstanding what Worsfold was saying there - he's just saying that he doesn't know what the drugs feel like.

If you're a psychiatrist, for example, you can use all kinds of words to tell me what OCD feels like - but unless you have OCD, you don't know what it's like.

He doesn't need to know what it's like to know it's detrimental to a professional athlete. The club was on fire all around him. Punch ups, domestic abuse. Blind Freddy could tell there were issues at the club and it was coming from the people taking drugs. And he did nothing to stop it.

I dont disagree with that aspect but its also the AFLs long term responsiblity too.... AFL cant abandon someone because someone else to blame is around...

I don't disagree but I do think the AFL has been trying to do what it can. They're caught between a rock and a hard place when it comes to punishing players or supporting them. The clubs generally want to stand by the player initially and try and help them with their issues. So if the AFL comes in over the top and throws them out after 1 indiscretion they would lose the players pretty quickly. What can more money do if young men want to go out and get on the gear? Ultimately it has to fall to the player to want to change and the club to be proactive in identifying any worrying trends. But I don't know how much the clubs and the AFL comes together if at all when it comes to players taking drugs.

 

[Bucking Bronco]

Not wanting blokes to suffer such crippling mental dysfunction that they kill themselves is woke, now?

They don't have to play AFL if they don't want to lmao.

Go work a job in an office if you're not happy with the risks of getting CTE.

I can only imagine how the UFC would be if it was run by people like the people running the AFL: the referee will now wave a fight off if a fighter is deemed to have been rocked twice in a fight in their estimations; only a submission attempt is allowed after a knockdown, no ground and pound, as it furthers concussion.

A circus, just like the AFL is now.

I am absolutely in favour of things like the Byron Pickett bump, and slinging tackles being outlawed, but, some of the rubbish now like the completely unreasonable responsibility that has been placed on tacklers/ bumpers to protect the head, has taken away some of the oomph from the game; and is only going to continue to do so further the more the AFL continue down this path of neuroses regarding concussion

 

[Bucking Bronco]

Lost me at woke…..nothing to do with it at all

It is woke.

The AFL have an unhealthy obsession with being liked.

It has crossed the point of them making changes due to what they're legally obligated to do, and now ventured into them making changes based on "image"/ "well-being".

Those are all great things, in most instances, but when you are operating within the confines of a contact sport, those things don't jive, unless you want to completely overhaul the fabric of the game, which they are now half-way to doing.

As you said, are we going to now look at removing speccies because they cause CTE?

Buddy, this is a contact sport.

Athletes pursuing a career in the AFL should be doing so, under the expectation that they will get concussed 15-20 times across the course of their junior/ adult career, it comes with the territory of being an athlete playing a contact sport.

Yes, the AFL should do everything they can to remove unnecessary instances that don't actually add anything to the game of benefit like the Pickett bumps, and the slinging tackles, but taking things away like hard-fought tackles/ bumps that don't make any contact with the head (like Dan Houston's), is literally a one-way ticket to turning the sport into basketball on grass.

No one is forcing anyone to play AFL.

If people don't want to run the risk of getting concussed, then they can go play non-contact sports that don't carry the risk of CTE like tennis, or work a mundane live in an office/ on a work site.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

MMA is growing at a rapid rate and no one gives a shit about CTE.

Not the fans, not the people running it.

If you pursue a career in the AFL, you should do so expecting that you will get concussed 15-20 across the course of your career.

People don't have to pursue a career in the AFL if they don't want to.

Just like they don't have to in MMA.

Removing some of the unnecessary concussions like the Byron Pickett running past the ball and whacking blokes is a good move, but stuff like speccies to the head, even a lot of the tackles recently, is just over sanitising, watering down the product, all so it can remain on-brand as being as woke and presentable as possible.

I guess seat belts in cars are woke too.

 

[Miguel Sanchez]

The lawsuits is a good start. Many have spoken up about it. Harley Balics dad, Daniel Chick, Brad Sheppard, Jeff Farmer, Poly Farmer. List goes on. I cant really post 300 articles for you

Would you at least accept that Polly Farmer, who died in 2019 and was, I believe, not of legal capacity for a number of years prior to that, is probably not able to be relied upon as giving a contemporary account of the support offered to past players?

Follow up question: would you also accept that there may have been some developments and improvements made in recent years? Or are you still going to bring out Chick’s interview with the Hun in 2015?