Enough is enough

[Miguel Sanchez]

That hasnt been followed at all when it comes to Venables. Im 100% sure he got more then 8,000 bucks (what a stupid number)

This program exists but its inadequate and not always followed.... so probably needs changing as the law suits are basically requesting.

I wonder how much that program costs per year. Karmichael Hunt probably got paid more then that program

As I read it it’s up to $8,000 per surgery.

It’s also one program, one I found through five seconds of googling. There could well be others.

Could the AFL and the AFLPA be doing more in this area? Absolutely. And no matter how much they do, there’s always more they could be doing.

But you’re attacking them for doing next to nothing which just isn’t true. And, as I said before, you’re conflating the specific, difficult and currently highly litigious area of concussion-related injury with more general concerns of ex-player welfare (physical and mental).

 

[iameviljez]

Thats my point.... Money and support helped

Why does he need Channel 7s support? Why didnt AFL give it?

Because “we will give you a six figure guaranteed job whenever you want it” is probably not scalable.

 

[CrowToon]

Gentle reminder that speculating (and that includes linking people by inference) about reasons why someone has died by suicide is not helpful.

It's often a combination of factors including no doubt some that are entirely private and unknown.

Assuming someone's reasons are entirely because of X actually is degrading to that person and their family. People are more than just ex-footballers.

I am supportive of conversations around suicide generally and I would support a study into whether there is a link between ex-footballers and a higher risk of death by suicide but assuming that any ex-footballer has chosen to die by suicide because they are 'having trouble adjusting to normal life' or 'must be head trauma' that is doing the rounds is just awful to read.

Suicide survivors have spoken candidly about this topic.

Some people need to do much better.

 

[the big lebowski]

Majak Daw certainly tried

True dat

 

[GoEaglesGoSGIO]

Gentle reminder that speculating (and that includes linking people by inference) about reasons why someone has died by suicide is not helpful.

It's often a combination of factors including no doubt some that are entirely private and unknown.

Assuming someone's reasons are entirely because of X actually is degrading to that person and their family. People are more than just ex-footballers.

I am supportive of conversations around suicide generally and I would support a study into whether there is a link between ex-footballers and a higher risk of death by suicide but assuming that any ex-footballer has chosen to die by suicide because they are 'having trouble adjusting to normal life' or 'must be head trauma' that is doing the rounds is just awful to read.

Suicide survivors have spoken candidly about this topic.

Some people need to do much better.

Passing the blame onto individuals isnt the answer.

Companies need to hold some responsibility... especially when dealing in this field

Regardless of what it must or must not be, they have a higher duty of care then the normal workplace. The issue is they dont think they do.

I think ignoring the why cos it isnt known is a pretty poor way to try and solve the issue. You can dance around in circles doing nothing cos you never know the cause in this example. Id rather we just stop the guessing and use the resources we have effectively.. instead of putting in a poor effort and hoping the problem can fall into the responsibility of someone else

 

[GoEaglesGoSGIO]

As I read it it’s up to $8,000 per surgery.

It’s also one program, one I found through five seconds of googling. There could well be others.

Could the AFL and the AFLPA be doing more in this area? Absolutely. And no matter how much they do, there’s always more they could be doing.

But you’re attacking them for doing next to nothing which just isn’t true. And, as I said before, you’re conflating the specific, difficult and currently highly litigious area of concussion-related injury with more general concerns of ex-player welfare (physical and mental).

Its next to nothing though? A phone number and 8k randomly is a pitiful effort.

 

[CrowToon]

Passing the blame onto individuals isnt the answer.

Companies need to hold some responsibility... especially when dealing in this field

Regardless of what it must or must not be, they have a higher duty of care then the normal workplace. The issue is they dont think they do.

I think ignoring the why cos it isnt known is a pretty poor way to try and solve the issue. You can dance around in circles doing nothing cos you never know the cause in this example. Id rather we just stop the guessing and use the resources we have effectively.. instead of putting in a poor effort and hoping the problem can fall into the responsibility of someone else

Who is talking about blame? What a ridiculous take.

I said don't speculate on something you know nothing about.

There may be a link, there may not. There may be something entirely private.

As I said, I am supportive of thorough inquiries. But not wild speculation.

I think we are arguing the same thing except I advocate a respectful, thorough road and perhaps you want to shoot from the hip a little more and get to the finish line.

Either way speculation is widely condemned by suicide awareness groups and survivors.

I sense this is a topic you hold passion about which is great but slowing down and reading posts is advisable.

 

[GoEaglesGoSGIO]

Who is talking about blame? What a ridiculous take.

I said don't speculate on something you know nothing about.

There may be a link, there may not. There may be something entirely private.

As I said, I am supportive of thorough inquiries. But not wild speculation.

I think we are arguing the same thing except I advocate a respectful, thorough road and perhaps you want to shoot from the hip a little more and get to the finish line.

Either way speculation is widely condemned by suicide awareness groups and survivors.

I sense this is a topic you hold passion about which is great but slowing down and reading posts is advisable.

I’m not speculating that head trauma is the cause at all… you just putting words in my mouth

A thorough and respectful road should have occurred by now. AFL had 5 years and they didn’t do it. Sometimes in life action is needed sooner then another 5 years of hand sitting where people need to sue to find out what support they should get…

AFL dropped the ball. They don’t get a free pass anymore. They need to fix it now..

 

[errant bounce]

You forgot to mention anonymous d*ckheads potting you unprovoked in online forums while you try to do you best to get on with your life.

Probably best to give your pseudo psychology a miss, you're not remotely as talented as the people you're puporting to analyse.

This is incredibly overrated.

Most people have had to work in retail or hospitality and had to be called worse things and to their face, and when they can't fight back.

They also haven't been able to press 'block' and go sit in their million dollar lounge room, they have to go back to service work.

Players love social media to DM women but hate it because it allows others the same liberties. not for the same purpose, but you can't have both.

 

[threesixpio]

Welcome to Country more important.

A national disgrace.

Don't bring this in please.

 

[Miguel Sanchez]

Its next to nothing though? A phone number and 8k randomly is a pitiful effort.

It’s not just that, though, is it.



“various payments and benefits which may be applicable”. Of which the $8,000 per surgery was just the first mentioned.

And that was just one page of the AFLPA’s 29 page handbook for past players.

And it’s the first thing I found in five seconds of searching. It’s not the sole program available.

 

[errant bounce]

Harder in that you were much more likely to have a fist in the face. You only have took at Greg Williams, who played forty years ago to see what sustained battering to the head can do.

But I do get your point, shirt fonts, tackles, speed is much more forceful now, and it does tend to be those repeated small and repeated knocks that result in minor brain trauma and CTE. These are much more prevalent now.

I'm not sure how much money you can throw at it post-career. I've seen a number of people who despite having close psychiatry care, still ended up choosing the dark exit. If CTE is to blame, then we really need to look more closely at what can be done in a preventative fashion, rather than hoping for a curative result.

People are being selective over the term 'harder,' it was full of dirty off the ball hits, they had one central umpire and plenty of gutless shits were getting around all the leagues.

That was my point, blokes would get head knocks way more than in 2003.

People will do anything to go all reddit and be like 'FOOTY ONLY GOT GOOD IN 2003 GUYS I WATCHED ALL THE 90S GRAND FINALS AND THEY'RE BLOWOUTS! ps I am 11 what is a Bomber.'

 

[errant bounce]

A major issue here too is gender.

No one wants to touch this, though.

I don't burden my true friends with any really bad thoughts; I think they can see when I'm feeling a bit blue and beyond that. it's never a deep 'let's talk about this' but there are small signs of help that are more meaningful than brash 'bro **** the black dog bro!'

The issue is women.

Men have nfi what they're supposed to be.

Have to be confident and able to come up to you and broker conversation, but also men who disrupt women are creepy.

Need to open up more and express yourself to your partner, but crying is pathetic and goes against the deep need for a stoic, governing man.

A guy with money and drive shows a lot, but if it's an ick if you as a woman – who is allowed to work – makes more than him. and then if he makes too much more, it's a sign of the glass ceiling.

Most women are reasonable and normal but the rhetoric is out of ****ing control.

I've had about two girlfriends now either laugh at me, mock me, or want nothing to do with me and tell me 'it doesn't matter, move on!' when I've cried.

Men are confused.

 

[GoEaglesGoSGIO]

It’s not just that, though, is it.

View attachment 2219191

“various payments and benefits which may be applicable”. Of which the $8,000 per surgery was just the first mentioned.

And that was just one page of the AFLPA’s 29 page handbook for past players.

And it’s the first thing I found in five seconds of searching. It’s not the sole program available.

Various payments may be applicable isnt much of a program or investment.....

I mean you are pointing to concepts without definition and saying that means they are adequate. It doesnt make much sense of a argument

If they cant quanitify whats being done, then thats a giant issue im afraid

 

[demondavey]

This sounds really gay.

Really mature comment in a thread discussing men topping themselves. Gay, used as an insult (again).

Grow up you infant.

 

[demondavey]

A major issue here too is gender.

No one wants to touch this, though.

I don't burden my true friends with any really bad thoughts; I think they can see when I'm feeling a bit blue and beyond that. it's never a deep 'let's talk about this' but there are small signs of help that are more meaningful than brash 'bro **** the black dog bro!'

The issue is women.

Men have nfi what they're supposed to be.

Have to be confident and able to come up to you and broker conversation, but also men who disrupt women are creepy.

Need to open up more and express yourself to your partner, but crying is pathetic and goes against the deep need for a stoic, governing man.

A guy with money and drive shows a lot, but if it's an ick if you as a woman – who is allowed to work – makes more than him. and then if he makes too much more, it's a sign of the glass ceiling.

Most women are reasonable and normal but the rhetoric is out of ****ing control.

I've had about two girlfriends now either laugh at me, mock me, or want nothing to do with me and tell me 'it doesn't matter, move on!' when I've cried.

Men are confused.

You’re picking the wrong women

 

[Miguel Sanchez]

Various payments may be applicable isnt much of a program or investment.....

I mean you are pointing to concepts without definition and saying that means they are adequate. It doesnt make much sense of a argument

If they cant quanitify whats being done, then thats a giant issue im afraid

The concepts would be spelt out more fully in the trust deed. I don’t know if that’s publicly available and I’m not going to go hunt it down because you think everything I’ve provided to date isn’t satisfactory.

As I said before, of course there’s more that could be done. But if you’re going to belittle the work that has already been done by describing it as “$8,000 and a phone number” then you’re not being genuine about the issue.

 

[GoEaglesGoSGIO]

The concepts would be spelt out more fully in the trust deed. I don’t know if that’s publicly available and I’m not going to go hunt it down because you think everything I’ve provided to date isn’t satisfactory.

As I said before, of course there’s more that could be done. But if you’re going to belittle the work that has already been done by describing it as “$8,000 and a phone number” then you’re not being genuine about the issue.

Im not going to guess what they have done im afraid. People doing that is why they get away with doing such a shithouse job at this. Randomly assuming they do a good job cos someone wrote the word varying on a piece of paper isnt much to go on

Its clearly inadequate when its all said and done and completely inconsistent. That part is something that cant be denied

 

[Cyclops]

A major issue here too is gender.

No one wants to touch this, though.

I don't burden my true friends with any really bad thoughts; I think they can see when I'm feeling a bit blue and beyond that. it's never a deep 'let's talk about this' but there are small signs of help that are more meaningful than brash 'bro **** the black dog bro!'

The issue is women.

Men have nfi what they're
Have to be confident and able to come up to you and broker conversation, but also men who disrupt women are creepy.

Need to open up more and express yourself to your partner, but crying is pathetic and goes against the deep need for a stoic, governing man.

A guy with money and drive shows a lot, but if it's an ick if you as a woman – who is allowed to work – makes more than him. and then if he makes too much more, it's a sign of the glass ceiling.

Most women are reasonable and normal but the rhetoric is out of ****ing control.

I've had about two girlfriends now either laugh at me, mock me, or want nothing to do with me and tell me 'it doesn't matter, move on!' when I've cried.

Men are confused.

I'm a bloke and not confused. If youre looking for help I strongly recommend you get off social media, this rhetoric you're reciting sounds a lot like blackpill bulldust chapter and verse.

Loads of support out there and if you can't open up to your mates I have bad news, they're not your friends.

 

[Feerits Elf]

A major issue here too is gender.

No one wants to touch this, though.

I don't burden my true friends with any really bad thoughts; I think they can see when I'm feeling a bit blue and beyond that. it's never a deep 'let's talk about this' but there are small signs of help that are more meaningful than brash 'bro **** the black dog bro!'

The issue is women.

Men have nfi what they're supposed to be.

Have to be confident and able to come up to you and broker conversation, but also men who disrupt women are creepy.

Need to open up more and express yourself to your partner, but crying is pathetic and goes against the deep need for a stoic, governing man.

A guy with money and drive shows a lot, but if it's an ick if you as a woman – who is allowed to work – makes more than him. and then if he makes too much more, it's a sign of the glass ceiling.

Most women are reasonable and normal but the rhetoric is out of ****ing control.

I've had about two girlfriends now either laugh at me, mock me, or want nothing to do with me and tell me 'it doesn't matter, move on!' when I've cried.

Men are confused.

That’s your experience bro.

My bird’s tops.

 

[demondavey]

I'm a bloke and not confused. If youre looking for help I strongly recommend you get off social media, this rhetoric you're reciting sounds a lot like blackpill bulldust chapter and verse.

Loads of support out there and if you can't open up to your mates I have bad news, they're not your friends.

End thread.

Phenomenal post.

PS - How do you do it with one eye?

 

[demondavey]

That’s your experience bro.

My bird’s tops.

What colour are they?

 

[Jock1eyemcpie]

I find it wild the AFL has a round for just about everything you can think of but then has pretty low awareness for things like mens health, mens mental health, prostate cancer, etc

They don’t get brownie points for men’s mental health. Sad but true.

 

[Corkintheocean]

This is incredibly overrated.

Most people have had to work in retail or hospitality and had to be called worse things and to their face, and when they can't fight back.

They also haven't been able to press 'block' and go sit in their million dollar lounge room, they have to go back to service work.

Players love social media to DM women but hate it because it allows others the same liberties. not for the same purpose, but you can't have both.

Not interested in hearing your incel diatribe.

 

[CrowToon]

I'm a bloke and not confused. If youre looking for help I strongly recommend you get off social media, this rhetoric you're reciting sounds a lot like blackpill bulldust chapter and verse.

Loads of support out there and if you can't open up to your mates I have bad news, they're not your friends.

Please don't shut him down. It's great if you haven't experienced this but it isn't social media. Men are reaching out in massive numbers about this.