ENOUGH is ENOUGH!!!

[freocuz]

Holy crap, that's a meltdown and a half.

I'm not entirely sure what people are expecting here. I think the season is going better than expected at this point. Sure, this match was a shocker. But it's the first one so far.

Anyone who thought Lyon was going to come in and magically turn this collection of head-cases into a premiership threat within 8 weeks is seriously delusional. We'll win the games we should win and some we shouldn't. I doubt we'll lose many that we should win, which is a definite improvement on the last 17 years.

 

[PapaJ]

Don't think anybody who is the buddy of Ibbo is in any position to be having a go at guys like Mzungu or Hill (or really anyone for that matter).

Because a poster has a particular buddy he can't comment on a player? - you do realise that makes no logical sense. What if my buddy is stuck playing WAFL, I can't make any post at all I assume? I mean the OP was an overreaction to a season that was always going to have us sitting about mid-table as a par score, but that post is a great example of nonsense.

 

[sansian]

Drama Drama Drama!!

I am amazed how people go into meltdowns after a loss. To those who peruse other boards, do other supporters go into meltdowns like this, or are our supporters just soft?

In case anyone has forgotten, Essendon handed the eagles a 61 point thrashing the other week, so it will happen to every side at some point.

in 2006 Freo supporters were crying come mid year, as we sat 6 - 6. After the break went on to win the next 9 straight games and finished 3rd. It can happen.

Eagles could lose the next 9 game and crash out of the 8.....oh that's just giving me shivers thinking about it.

 

[andy_20]

I can't believe some people are saying, "It's not that bad there are worse teams than us in the comp" Are you frigging kidding me? All these teams have had success at some point in there history!

We have won Sweet FA and been a basket case for 13 out of 16 years in the AFL. Who cares if Melbourne and other teams are struggling, this is Fremantle and our performances over many years have been mediocre at best and nothing to be proud of yet some supporters still think its acceptable because "theres always next year"

I remember in 06 when the Eagles won the Grand Final and there were Fremantle supporters saying, "Yea you may have won the Grand Final but remember we were the only team to beat you twice" WHO CARES IF WE BEAT EAGLES TWICE, THEY WON THE GRAND FINAL FFS! And we lost the Prelim Final because only 4 of our 22 players turned up.

The club needs to change its culture but we as supporters need to start demanding results because IMO we have let them off way too easily over the years.

 

[Silent Alarm]

Really, one poor loss... Is that all it has taken for this type of rant. Look at club histories and clubs have waited s whole lot longer than we have to achieve success. Need to give this ranting a rest for a while.

Exactly the thing I was talking about.

This is just blindly optimistic and one-eyed. "One poor loss" is not an excuse. We lost to a side who doubled our score, a side that was sitting below us before the game. No matter how you paint it, the performance was utterly disappointing. You can continue to accept this and live on the 'next game, next month, next year' mentality: Just don't go lamenting our success.

Additionally, you're also wrong. This is more than one poor loss. This result had been coming.

Sure, we beat Port Adelaide. But for a while, we were less than convincing and I thought another typical Freo loss (losing against an out and out bad team) was coming. Go backward and look at the win against Gold Coast – a side who haven't won all season – and how poorly we played, how faulty our tactics were, and how close we came to a loss.

Saturday's loss wasn't some freak loss. It was the result of a few factors. And we really have to inspect and rectify those factors. This side is not good enough.

Holy crap, that's a meltdown and a half.

I'm not entirely sure what people are expecting here. I think the season is going better than expected at this point. Sure, this match was a shocker. But it's the first one so far.

Anyone who thought Lyon was going to come in and magically turn this collection of head-cases into a premiership threat within 8 weeks is seriously delusional. We'll win the games we should win and some we shouldn't. I doubt we'll lose many that we should win, which is a definite improvement on the last 17 years.

Again, a loser mentality.

"We're doing better than we should do!" is just pathetic. How many flags would Brisbane have won in the early noughties if they thought like this? "We're a club five years old but look at us! We've won a flag!" is not a champion mentality – a champion mentality is not settling for what you have. I don't care if we're looking good (which, we really aren't) for this point in the season: We should not have lost to Hawthorn the way we did.

Again, you then look retrospectively. Forget the last 17 years. Clubs don't think "we've won 10 flags, we're okay."

 

[apuchar]

Exactly the thing I was talking about.

This is just blindly optimistic and one-eyed. "One poor loss" is not an excuse. We lost to a side who doubled our score, a side that was sitting below us before the game. No matter how you paint it, the performance was utterly disappointing. You can continue to accept this and live on the 'next game, next month, next year' mentality: Just don't go lamenting our success.

Additionally, you're also wrong. This is more than one poor loss. This result had been coming.

Sure, we beat Port Adelaide. But for a while, we were less than convincing and I thought another typical Freo loss (losing against an out and out bad team) was coming. Go backward and look at the win against Gold Coast – a side who haven't won all season – and how poorly we played, how faulty our tactics were, and how close we came to a loss.

Saturday's loss wasn't some freak loss. It was the result of a few factors. And we really have to inspect and rectify those factors. This side is not good enough.


Again, a loser mentality.

"We're doing better than we should do!" is just pathetic. How many flags would Brisbane have won in the early noughties if they thought like this? "We're a club five years old but look at us! We've won a flag!" is not a champion mentality – a champion mentality is not settling for what you have. I don't care if we're looking good (which, we really aren't) for this point in the season: We should not have lost to Hawthorn the way we did.

Again, you then look retrospectively. Forget the last 17 years. Clubs don't think "we've won 10 flags, we're okay."

In psychology it is called learned helplessness.

 

[paul8241]

If demetrio wants us to win, he will change the rules to make it more probable. We have a financial club and a large supporter base, permanent income for the afl, little chance of folding. He now wants GWS and Gold Coast to win before us. But enough of the conspiracy theories.

We certainly give ourselves the best chance with all the serviceable mature recruits, here's hoping the mids can gel soon so we don't head the scrappy defensive fight. Delivery into the forward line would be nice if we could get it in the middle.

We missed lower and McPhee on the weekend, 40 hard attacks on the ball were missing.

 

[Fred Ziffel]

The OP has set his eyes too high as many of us have , especially when we change coaches.

I've been a member since that first night at the Freo Passenger Terminal and like everyone else I've experienced all the emotions that come with this club.

We've played much worse than we did on Saturday however, under Ross Lyon I doubt we will play that bad again.
I expect a major change in attitude this next game.

 

[jedi mind tricks]

We have had a few key injuries this season which doesn't help however, WC has had a heap of key players out and still look solid. Skills of a high level and complete control of most games.

Our depth is poor, how many good KPP do we have playing in the WAFL if someone goes down. How many mids are putting presure on the players making the team. Our recruitment has been mediocer in the past two years.

Freo has never had a winning culture so I guess it would be wishful thinking if it started now.

 

[leeloo]

I can't believe some people are saying, "It's not that bad there are worse teams than us in the comp" Are you frigging kidding me? All these teams have had success at some point in there history!

We have won Sweet FA and been a basket case for 13 out of 16 years in the AFL. Who cares if Melbourne and other teams are struggling, this is Fremantle and our performances over many years have been mediocre at best and nothing to be proud of yet some supporters still think its acceptable because "theres always next year"

I remember in 06 when the Eagles won the Grand Final and there were Fremantle supporters saying, "Yea you may have won the Grand Final but remember we were the only team to beat you twice" WHO CARES IF WE BEAT EAGLES TWICE, THEY WON THE GRAND FINAL FFS! And we lost the Prelim Final because only 4 of our 22 players turned up.

The club needs to change its culture but we as supporters need to start demanding results because IMO we have let them off way too easily over the years.

It took 16 years to build that culture, it's not going to change in 8 rounds.

Seriously, we brought (or bought) in a coach with a 63% winning percentage, got a stoppages coach that is highly respect and um, Suma (but he is comes from a team with a winning culture!)

What would you like done?

 

[Geoff]

Before anyone questions my loyalty to Fremantle Dockers let me just say that I have been a supporter of the club since 95 and a member for the last 11 years. I have sunk thousands of $$$ into this club in the form of membership, purchasing of merchandise and many other things such as club functions etc.. I feel due to being loyal since day 1 my comments below are warranted, some may find them hard to swallow but I feel it needs to be said.

I am sick and tired of the same mediocre crap being dished up by this club year after year. I’ve had an absolute gutful and I am just about ready to hand back my membership and stop supporting this sorry excuse of a club. When will this club stop “Promising” like they have since 95 and actually start to deliver? I thought after the 2010 season that we were actually finally moving forward but since then we have gone backwards. Every coach we have gone through has all said the same BS but in different words, “We are building to something special, have patience” Well I’ve been patient for 16 years and I’ve just about had enough, I don’t want to be patient anymore, I WANT TO SEE RESULTS NOW! I don’t care how good a side Hawthorn are, we were absolutely diabolical on the weekend and it’s been the same mistakes year after year that have cost us games and will continue to cost us games until we change our culture! We are a mentally week team that has and will always reward mediocrity, we have had a “Near enough is Good enough” culture for far too long and it’s about time we change that culture.

It’s about time this club grew up and started earning respect by getting results on the board. I don’t care how badly, Richmond, Port and Melbourne have been the last 5 to 10 years, we still remain the joke of the competition and every team will continue to have the mindset that we are easy beats. /end rant

Now moving on to our current game plan, I never really rated Harvey as a coach but I could see what he was trying to achieve when he recruited players like Fyfe, Hill, Ballantyne, Morabito, Suban, Walters and Mzungu. Our Game Plan under Ross Lyon is completely CRAP! Harvey was building a list for fast attacking football and recruited players with toe (Hill & Morabito), who can find space (Barlow) and players with good skill.

I believe defence is very important but Ross Lyon’s game plan does not suit our list! Clogging up space, trying to cause turnovers, flooding defence and trying to get teams on the counter-punch is not working and will not work against the top sides! Saint Kilda had the perfect list for our current game plan because they had players who could take those big contested marks on the counter punch; we have a forward line that will only work with quick ball movement.

Some people say our list is a top 4 list while others say it’s overrated, at the moment I’m still on the fence. Going by 2010 / early 2011 I would say our list has great potential and has a heap of current and future A graders but we are still very mentally weak. People say we are slow but when you are chasing tail and getting smashed anyone would look slow. I look at Adelaide’s list and apart from the twin towers up front we have a very similar list. We should be playing like Adelaide and not this crap unattractive defensive style football which basically tells the opposition, “Go on and try and score against us because I bet you can’t”

I’m calling it now and I could well be proved wrong this Sunday but we aren’t winning any of our next 5 games and we wont be playing Finals footy in 2012 which in my eyes would deem our season, “A failure”

Feel for you Brother (or Sister). Have been suffering the same frustrations year after year but for some reason I am now numb to it all. I now just sit and wait to see what happens next. Continual hope followed by disappointment is what being a Dockers supporter is all about. We are not blessed like the mob up the road so what we have is our lot in life. It's a bit like buying a lotto ticket, you have got to be in it to win it but the chances are real slim. I still buy the occasional lotto ticket. Hang in There

 

[apuchar]

We have had a few key injuries this season which doesn't help however, WC has had a heap of key players out and still look solid. Skills of a high level and complete control of most games.

Our depth is poor, how many good KPP do we have playing in the WAFL if someone goes down. How many mids are putting presure on the players making the team. Our recruitment has been mediocer in the past two years.

Freo has never had a winning culture so I guess it would be wishful thinking if it started now.

No we are suffering because we gave away our first 3 draft picks to pick up Josh Carr, traded for Tarrant and Croad etc. We have not recovered from the Schwabb/Connolly day's. The recruiting this year looks to be excellent. The year before we got Pitt (jury still out) Michie (long-term injury) and Mellington who looks good. We have also picked up Ballantyne, Broughton, Hill, Moribito, Clarke, Walters Silvagni, Barlow, Lower etc in recent years. It takes time to build up a depleted list.

 

[andy_20]

It took 16 years to build that culture, it's not going What would you like done?

Well first of all our game plan needs to a bit of tinkering, we are too defensive and can't kick a score to save ourselves. I know our quicker players are still on the sidelines but bloody hell we still have Duffield, Hill, Niel, Ballantyne and Mzungu who all have a bit of toe.

In the 3rd qtr we went Man on Man and carved the Hawks up with our quick Ball Movement. Why didn't we play like that earlier on? Yes Barlow and Mundy aren't our quickest players but if we weren't continually flooding the backline they would be able to find space and palm off to our running players I mentioned above.

 

[freocuz]

Well first of all our game plan needs to a bit of tinkering, we are too defensive and can't kick a score to save ourselves. I know our quicker players are still on the sidelines but bloody hell we still have Duffield, Hill, Niel, Ballantyne and Mzungu who all have a bit of toe.

In the 3rd qtr we went Man on Man and carved the Hawks up with our quick Ball Movement. Why didn't we play like that earlier on? Yes Barlow and Mundy aren't our quickest players but if we weren't continually flooding the backline they would be able to find space and palm off to our running players I mentioned above.

Unless you are Mick Malthouse, I hope Ross Lyon takes absolutely no notice of what you want.

 

[andy_20]

Unless you are Mick Malthouse, I hope Ross Lyon takes absolutely no notice of what you want.

So what do you propose the Dockers do? Keep going with the same Game Plan and when we actually do manage to get the ball our players are that knackered theres no one prepared to spread?

 

[apuchar]

Well first of all our game plan needs to a bit of tinkering, we are too defensive and can't kick a score to save ourselves. I know our quicker players are still on the sidelines but bloody hell we still have Duffield, Hill, Niel, Ballantyne and Mzungu who all have a bit of toe.

In the 3rd qtr we went Man on Man and carved the Hawks up with our quick Ball Movement. Why didn't we play like that earlier on? Yes Barlow and Mundy aren't our quickest players but if we weren't continually flooding the backline they would be able to find space and palm off to our running players I mentioned above.

I agree with that. I think our change in game plan has gone too far. However, that doesn't stop a player getting the hard ball, kicking properly and running hard. I would like to see the players freed up a bit and a gradual transition to players who run hard, with good skills and decision-making and can win a contest. e.g Sheridan, Sutcliffe, Lower, Crozier, Michie, possibly Schloithe and Roberts etc

 

[nurries]

If demetrio wants us to win, he will change the rules to make it more probable. We have a financial club and a large supporter base, permanent income for the afl, little chance of folding. He now wants GWS and Gold Coast to win before us. But enough of the conspiracy theories.

We certainly give ourselves the best chance with all the serviceable mature recruits, here's hoping the mids can gel soon so we don't head the scrappy defensive fight. Delivery into the forward line would be nice if we could get it in the middle.

We missed lower and McPhee on the weekend, 40 hard attacks on the ball were missing.

WTF does this even mean? Change what rules? What like We dont have to travel or something? Good teams win anywhere, anytime, anyone.

 

[jedi mind tricks]

No we are suffering because we gave away our first 3 draft picks to pick up Josh Carr, traded for Tarrant and Croad etc. We have not recovered from the Schwabb/Connolly day's. The recruiting this year looks to be excellent. The year before we got Pitt (jury still out) Michie (long-term injury) and Mellington who looks good. We have also picked up Ballantyne, Broughton, Hill, Moribito, Clarke, Walters Silvagni, Barlow, Lower etc in recent years. It takes time to build up a depleted list.

I only mentioned the past 2 years not before then. I agree we got burnt by Scwabb/ Connolly.

I can't believe we didn't take a punt on Darling as he is a KPP we need. The jury may be out on Pitt for a long time. I hope he comes through witht the goods.

 

[23cmonShane!]

So what do you propose the Dockers do? Keep going with the same Game Plan and when we actually do manage to get the ball our players are that knackered theres no one prepared to spread?

Yes. It's not the game plan, its the execution.

 

[apuchar]

I only mentioned the past 2 years not before then. I agree we got burnt by Scwabb/ Connolly.

I can't believe we didn't take a punt on Darling as he is a KPP we need. The jury may be out on Pitt for a long time. I hope he comes through witht the goods.

Can only take so many picks otherwise you just pick up rubbish. We have done really well in the past two years considering how compromised the draft was.

Nobody else took Darling either and WC didn't take him until pick 20 something. There were serious doubts about him as an individual. I thought he was very good when he played for WP but so was Bradley. Can't get them all. Haven't given up on Pitt yet. He is a classy footballer, just not sure he is particularly motivated to play wafl footy.

 

[estibador]

Anyone who thought Lyon was going to come in and magically turn this collection of head-cases into a premiership threat within 8 weeks is seriously delusional. We'll win the games we should win and some we shouldn't. I doubt we'll lose many that we should win, which is a definite improvement on the last 17 years.

Amen.

And if anyone thinks we aren't making progress just look at this thread; last year's meltdown threads were after 100pt losses to bottom 8 teams, now it's 60pt losses to premiership fancies. Progress...

 

[apuchar]

Amen.

And if anyone thinks we aren't making progress just look at this thread; last year's meltdown threads were after 100pt losses to bottom 8 teams, now it's 60pt losses to premiership fancies. Progress...

Agree, but our duds aren't any less duddier. We still need to make a gradual transition to better players. IMHO.

 

[andy_20]

Amen.

And if anyone thinks we aren't making progress just look at this thread; last year's meltdown threads were after 100pt losses to bottom 8 teams, now it's 60pt losses to premiership fancies. Progress...

So a 60 point loss to Flag Fancies who were playing average footy themselves and below us on the ladder is acceptable is it?

So I guess you were over the moon after our narrow loss to the other Flag Fancies 3 weeks ago?

 

[estibador]

So a 60 point loss to Flag Fancies who were playing average footy themselves and below us on the ladder is acceptable is it?

There's a pretty wide spectrum between acceptable and meltdown worthy.

 

[believe_it]

Lyon was correct when he said we were destroyed in the midfield. Clearances 24 to 48 despite winning double the hit outs. I mean there is the problem in black and white.

It would be the most pertinent to apply efforts towards examining the problem closely and arriving at a potential solution or solutions.

This has been a problem for some years now and there has been absolutely no progress made in this area. Therefore either nothing at all has been done to address this situation (incompetence) or whoever has been charged with fixing it has failed dismally(still incompetence).