Enoughs Enough

raffrox

Norm Smith Medallist
Sep 4, 2004
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So what in that article disturbs you so greatly?

I for one am tired of all the negativity that gets spewed on these forums from our own bloody supporters.

Every club goes through ups and downs, players behaving badly, poor injuries, questionable game plans and so on.

Jesse's actions are his to wear - has nothing to do with the club
JLT games mean feck all.

It's not all doom and gloom
Thanks for your opinion. I've got mine.

I'd suggest coming to the Enough is enough thread isn't a good idea as well if those are your thoughts.

There just might be something in it if the chorus of negative comments is getting louder though.
 

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Cesoir

Team Captain
Feb 11, 2019
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I am getting on a bit but I wouldn't consider myself old yet.

You waste just as much time here as i do so I'm not sure what you are trying to say about the merits of posting in a footy forum.

You bet I'm pi**ed off though. I hate being treated like a fool and that's what our club has done in recent times.
If you're over 30 you're old mate, just ask any teenager :)

The point I was making is that your dissatisfaction or my dissatisfaction will not drive performance any more than yelling at clouds will change the weather. I was recently accused of being "part of the problem" because I'm not angry enough about the club - well sorry, but I am still full of optimism for the year ahead and until my prick is bubbled I will continue in that vein.

For all the angst, we are still equal top of the ladder.
 

DeanS

Club Legend
May 16, 2007
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To those supporters who continue to bag out every single element of our club (Board, Coaching, Players, other supporters etc etc), what is it that keeps you supporting the Dockers? Other team supporters back their players and coaching panel, we hang them all out to dry
While I doubt you are aiming your question at me, I do feel a need to respond. I joined FFC the first year. I've been a member continuously since then. Right through all the dark years of Drum etc.. Never before have I questioned whether to rejoin. This year I hesitated. It took some time to decide to re-commit. What we are seeing now is different. We are not just seeing players who aren't up to scratch, or coaches who are out of their depth. We are seeing much of what was good about Freo being dismantled by people who are driven more by ego than anything else. People who are willing to turn a blind eye because they fear to confront a situation might make them look bad for allowing that situation to occur.
As I have said before, the rot started (at least to my way of thinking) when management reacted inadequately to the accusations of sexual harrassment made against Ross. I have no idea if those accusations were true or not - and that is the problem. There should have been an open and frank investigation with the results of that investigation made public. To do otherwise reeks of a culture of cover-up.
There have been a few other matters which also speak of a poor culture at FFC and this distresses me greatly. I love this club. 24 years of continuous membership tells you that. But what is happening now needs to be addressed as it could mark a low point for our club from which it will take a long long time to recover. I don't believe the administration are able to confront it so it is up to us members to force the issue. And while it is distasteful, displaying our feelings on this board about what is happening is one way of doing that. I have no doubt the club monitors boards like this to some degree. Maybe the message will get through.
 

raffrox

Norm Smith Medallist
Sep 4, 2004
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If you're over 30 you're old mate, just ask any teenager :)

The point I was making is that your dissatisfaction or my dissatisfaction will not drive performance any more than yelling at clouds will change the weather. I was recently accused of being "part of the problem" because I'm not angry enough about the club - well sorry, but I am still full of optimism for the year ahead and until my prick is bubbled I will continue in that vein.

For all the angst, we are still equal top of the ladder.
Guess I'm old then!!

This thread and the melt thread are places to vent. I don't understand why people suggest I'm not a supporter if I have a motivation for us to be better than we have been during our brief history.
 

Midnite65

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Sep 27, 2013
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To those supporters who continue to bag out every single element of our club (Board, Coaching, Players, other supporters etc etc), what is it that keeps you supporting the Dockers? Other team supporters back their players and coaching panel, we hang them all out to dry
Agreed, its almost like when we finally win a GF they will be posting that we didni't
 

Cesoir

Team Captain
Feb 11, 2019
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Guess I'm old then!!

This thread and the melt thread are places to vent. I don't understand why people suggest I'm not a supporter if I have a motivation for us to be better than we have been during our brief history.
Who has ever said you are not a supporter? I have seen your posting over a long time and you are a tragic like the rest of us. :)

Some of us are more positive than others, but that's fine. I was just pointing out that neither my positivity nor your negativity will help drive performance - we're all just in here yelling at clouds. (Young or old).
 

youbeautfyfe

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Sep 25, 2015
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Video recording on all phones helps these things get out, as well as the ease of sharing with other people, it can get around rapidly. Club culture at all footy clubs is probably the same - it's just a game of russian roulette if the club you support gets scrutinised or not. Wouldn't say our club culture is any worse than any other club at the moment.
 

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BlueE

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Oct 12, 2017
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I've waited to see how this plays out before commenting to try to get all the facts. However I'm sick of the spin on spin on spin and no one taking responsibility. No one is acknowledging that Jesse had many photos off his face and not with alcohol over the summer. There were No Consequences! While I acknowledge Jesse has clinical anxiety why weren't the club concerned about this or doing anything about his off his head drink and drug taking then?

I think the Paul Roos article makes some good points about 17 year olds being too young to be drafted across the country and Jess has had big hurdles since then. I also agree that a older positive male mentor would be great for him. Get Roos to mentor RTB as well perhaps? However we drafted two 17 year olds in Cerra and Brayshaw from across the country and they have coped without needing to take drugs or drink to excess.

There is a link between taking drugs and anxiety. Taking drugs makes anxiety worse and may even cause it. This is our Ben Cousins moment. When Cousins and Gardner crashed on the roundabout in Doubleview mid week and Ben had bruised ribs an unable to train (Gardner took off and pretended no to have been there) and WC denied the accident then when confronted with the facts didn't accept responsibility and put the same sort of spin we are seeing now from Freo Jesse can look ahead to his future.

I've said it before if we were serious about changing our culture and yes they have every right to question Freo about this, an Integrity programme (yes just like WC put in eventually after Cousins rehab failures) with an Integrity Officer, whether its an ex cop or not, would have been put in place.

Freo accepted Jesse's behavious without being worried about the clinical anxiety they say was causing it all summer!! If they had been at least a little concerned for Jesse's welfare there would have been a mentor and boundaries put in place for Jesse and no drinking or drug taking. Why are they are only concerned now and RTB saying nothing to do with him he only listens to the DR's?

FFS. ENOUGH IS ENOUGH! p**s off Dale Alcock, RTB and Rosich.
 

Nodgey

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Aug 14, 2007
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How stupid can we be to have entered into the Hogan trade knowing full well what could happen, and then still allowing it to actually happen? What sort of risk management or contingency plans were there? Someone's been asleep at the wheel. And it's not good enough.
 

StingBitten

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May 31, 2012
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I'll have a crack at providing an anecdotal parallel for consideration.

I have a relative who works for the WACA, and he enlightened me on the poor state of affairs between the players and coach there at the moment. Does he have hard evidence that the players can't stand Voges? No. Professional athletes are likely to keep their views to their wives, and maybe one or two players they trust.

But it comes out in other ways - under Langer the entire outfit was run like the military. The players were courteous, punctual and incredibly clean, every player was expected to clean up after themselves in the mess hall, and even take personal responsibility for ensuring the change rooms were kept spic and span.

Under Voges, the place has become a pig sty. The players aren't courteous anymore, and no one takes much personal accountability. Phillipe is about to sign a 4 year contract over east, and players like Nathan Coulter Nile are seeking their own exit clauses. The disruption in relationship between coach and players is manifested in subtle, yet effective ways - because Sportsmen are mostly beings of physical and non-verbal communication.

I'm not saying that Lyon et al run the club like slobs, or that the actual situation at the WACA is directly related to what's happening with us - but it IS important to read the physical and non-verbal manifestations, and that's distinguishable through physical and mental injuries, form and in other areas.

Yes, we inherited or drafted players with pre-existing concerns in those areas - but like many situations these can walk a tight-rope and teeter either way. The people that run the organization actually have more capacity to support players to get the balance right than can be consciously understood by any football, mental health or other professional combined.
 

Silent Alarm

sack Lyon
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Jul 9, 2010
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So what in that article disturbs you so greatly?

I for one am tired of all the negativity that gets spewed on these forums from our own bloody supporters.

Every club goes through ups and downs, players behaving badly, poor injuries, questionable game plans and so on.

Jesse's actions are his to wear - has nothing to do with the club
JLT games mean feck all.

It's not all doom and gloom
Tell me the amazing ups Fremantle has had in its 25 year history?

People are allowed to be angry. We buy tickets, memberships, and merchandise and give up our time on the weekend to watch them.

Ultimately the club is looking down the barrel of another bad season, under a coach who refuses to update a coaching style that has never ever worked (losing Grand Finals doesn't count), with high profile recruits struggling to find form and who have serious off-field dramas going on.

Footy fans are generally soft in general these days. Bigfooty and especially ughghghgh reddit are of the 'come on guys, let's support them. We are supporters!' It wasn't long ago Victorian fans booed and spat on their players. Spitting is too far, but I have no issue in being pi**ed off with a club that's going nowhere.

In Europe, the UK, people boycott their team and hold them to high standards. People get angry.

I personally resent the staleness and the fact all these people have job security, are on more money than I could ever dream of, yet push out terrible results and have done for three years. I resent the fact they get so many chances despite quite simply not fulfilling their role – which is to play, coach AFL football and to win in it.
 

Silent Alarm

sack Lyon
Suspended
Jul 9, 2010
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Mods, is the Melt Thread broken?
It's offensive and a sign of the culture on this board – that you can't be negative, negative comments will be deleted or seen as trolling – that a thread to display disappointment regarding a bottom four, bottom five team that's had its biggest recruit in a good decade be in the state he is is called a 'melt' thread.

People aren't 'melting,' they're voicing anger which they are entitled to. Most people on here pay a huge amount of money to be members. They can be pi**ed off. 'Melting' undermines any good argument as childish or petulant or a troll... it ain't.
 

salim malik

Brownlow Medallist
Jan 14, 2008
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I've waited to see how this plays out before commenting to try to get all the facts. However I'm sick of the spin on spin on spin and no one taking responsibility. No one is acknowledging that Jesse had many photos off his face and not with alcohol over the summer. There were No Consequences! While I acknowledge Jesse has clinical anxiety why weren't the club concerned about this or doing anything about his off his head drink and drug taking then?

I think the Paul Roos article makes some good points about 17 year olds being too young to be drafted across the country and Jess has had big hurdles since then. I also agree that a older positive male mentor would be great for him. Get Roos to mentor RTB as well perhaps? However we drafted two 17 year olds in Cerra and Brayshaw from across the country and they have coped without needing to take drugs or drink to excess.

There is a link between taking drugs and anxiety. Taking drugs makes anxiety worse and may even cause it. This is our Ben Cousins moment. When Cousins and Gardner crashed on the roundabout in Doubleview mid week and Ben had bruised ribs an unable to train (Gardner took off and pretended no to have been there) and WC denied the accident then when confronted with the facts didn't accept responsibility and put the same sort of spin we are seeing now from Freo Jesse can look ahead to his future.

I've said it before if we were serious about changing our culture and yes they have every right to question Freo about this, an Integrity programme (yes just like WC put in eventually after Cousins rehab failures) with an Integrity Officer, whether its an ex cop or not, would have been put in place.

Freo accepted Jesse's behavious without being worried about the clinical anxiety they say was causing it all summer!! If they had been at least a little concerned for Jesse's welfare there would have been a mentor and boundaries put in place for Jesse and no drinking or drug taking. Why are they are only concerned now and RTB saying nothing to do with him he only listens to the DR's?

FFS. ENOUGH IS ENOUGH! p**s off Dale Alcock, RTB and Rosich.
FFS , Ben Cousins moment WC did nothing about Cousins for years, denied,denied and denied. Sacked a coach who tried to report it. Hogan hasn't played a game for us yet and Freo have stood him down from playing and acknowledged there is a problem.
 

GoFreo4eva

Freo Tragic Since the Beginning
Sep 15, 2013
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433
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To those supporters who continue to bag out every single element of our club (Board, Coaching, Players, other supporters etc etc), what is it that keeps you supporting the Dockers? Other team supporters back their players and coaching panel, we hang them all out to dry
Agreed. This same outfit has produced fine people like Matthew Pavlich, Luke McPharlin, Peter Bell, Troy Cook, Aaron Sandilands, David Mundy, Dale Kickett, Nathan Fyfe and so on.... Let’s not get too hung up on the bad boys behaviour and recognise that there are many who have gone before them who were very much the opposite.

If Hogan is suffering from anxiety he needs support and a process for a way forward. It would seem his mates are the wrong kind of people if they are helping him find himself in compromised positions. Looking back on the trade process it seems the club needed to hear from Jesse that he was committed to footy and outwardly when he is there he seems to be. He just needs to take that mindset outside of footy or there will be consequences like this where he is not available for selection.
 
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