Enoughs Enough

Silent Alarm

sack Lyon
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Jul 9, 2010
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Agreed. This same outfit has produced fine people like Matthew Pavlich, Luke McPharlin, Peter Bell, Troy Cook, Aaron Sandilands, David Mundy, Dale Kickett, Nathan Fyfe and so on.... Let’s not get too hung up on the bad boys behaviour and recognise that there are many who have gone before them who were very much the opposite.

If Hogan is suffering from anxiety he needs support and a process for a way forward. It would seem his mates are the wrong kind of people if they are helping him find himself in compromised positions. Looking back on the trade process it seems the club needed to hear from Jesse that he was committed to footy and outwardly when he is there he seems to be. He just needs to take that mindset outside of footy or there will be consequences like this where he is not available for selection.
What do those names even mean? They were all champions to very good for Freo, but they're just names. Even perennially disappointing St Kilda have had Nick Riewoldt, Robert Harvey, Tony Lockett, Ian Stewart, Darrell Baldock. What does it mean? Some of the greatest sports people ever played in rubbish sides and in the accolades page of their wikipedia, won nothing. Freo hasn't won a flag and that's what stings. That's the soft spot.

Also as an aside, how is Dale Kickett a Freo product? He'd been at six clubs before us – Claremont, Fitzroy, St Kilda, West Coast, and Essendon for a while... he excelled at our club, he'll always be remembered as a Dockers player, but he's not a product.

I'd also say no AFL clubs really 'produces' anyone. It's not like Manchester United and the class of '91, where you had a nucleus of some of the best players in the world and very servicable clubmen winning everything they could, who had played together since the age of about 13, and learnt all they'd known from each other and Man U's coaches and culture... ultimately AFL players are developed from Auskick, junior footy, to the WAFL colts and state programs. So those guys are West Torrents, East Fremantle and Hawthorn, Kojonup and Souths, Perth Demons, Mt Barker and East Freo (?), Ballarat or Bendigo or whatever, Claremont, and Claremont products.

This list really means nothing. Honestly who cares?
 

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theGav56

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It's offensive and a sign of the culture on this board – that you can't be negative, negative comments will be deleted or seen as trolling – that a thread to display disappointment regarding a bottom four, bottom five team that's had its biggest recruit in a good decade be in the state he is is called a 'melt' thread.

People aren't 'melting,' they're voicing anger which they are entitled to. Most people on here pay a huge amount of money to be members. They can be pi**ed off. 'Melting' undermines any good argument as childish or petulant or a troll... it ain't.
Fair enough, and I don't have any problems with people having the gripes. I don't like the infestation of every single thread with a different version of the same gripe though, which is what often happens.
 

BlueE

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Oct 12, 2017
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FFS , Ben Cousins moment WC did nothing about Cousins for years, denied,denied and denied. Sacked a coach who tried to report it. Hogan hasn't played a game for us yet and Freo have stood him down from playing and acknowledged there is a problem.
I agree. Also Worsfold and Nisbett's classic quotes we asked if he was doing drugs and he said no, so we believed him.

Do you think Hogan is the first? No. Going on for years? Ask Crowley Neale and others. There have been 2 recent deaths of ex players with S. Yarren in particular blasting the club as he claimed there were more drugs at the Club than anywhere.

We signed Hogan knowing he had drug and alcohol problems and clinical anxiety and deny deny deny (not only the club but most supporters) there was problems despite many buckled, legless or cud chewing photos that appeared over the summer. Which by the way, the media shut up about.

We knew he had clinical anxiety and was getting wasted and did nothing because that's what we always do. I'm talking about getting help, putting an Integrity programme in place and developing a strong honest "no excuses" culture. It's Cousins line in the sand time.
 

raffrox

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Fair enough, and I don't have any problems with people having the gripes. I don't like the infestation of every single thread with a different version of the same gripe though, which is what often happens.
You don't think that's just a reflection of where we are at though?

If we had a poll about the current state and direction of the club the majority wouldn't be happy.

There are ways to change this and it had nothing to do with how people are posting on Big Footy.
 

Turboman1994

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Jul 24, 2013
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Sorry for the intrusion but to me this seems like a leadership problem.

Bell is a good start but honestly can’t think of any other board members/ footy heads that deserve praise need more leadership uptop.

Coaching wise Lyon is experienced but I firmly believe these days you need to have a strong core coaching group the old one boss and underlings is going out very quickly need more quality assistants and Ross needs to trust his team more.

Player wise over 27-8 you have of the top of my head. Ballas, Mundy, Sandi, Fyfe, Walters. Fyfe is a brilliant on field general but is quite the quirky one off field doesn’t strike me as a leader of men type, Walters is a great role model for the indigenous boys but usually speaking they are softly spoken and quite shy ( I’m making an assumption here). Mundy is fantastic and imo your best of the current leaders, ballas can’t comment on him from this POV and sandi likewise.

Compare to your 2013-2015 team you had Macca, Spurr, Pav, Duffman, Mundy, Sandilands, emerging Fyfe a much stronger leadership core.
 

Joao

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Sorry for the intrusion but to me this seems like a leadership problem.

Bell is a good start but honestly can’t think of any other board members/ footy heads that deserve praise need more leadership uptop.

Coaching wise Lyon is experienced but I firmly believe these days you need to have a strong core coaching group the old one boss and underlings is going out very quickly need more quality assistants and Ross needs to trust his team more.

Player wise over 27-8 you have of the top of my head. Ballas, Mundy, Sandi, Fyfe, Walters. Fyfe is a brilliant on field general but is quite the quirky one off field doesn’t strike me as a leader of men type, Walters is a great role model for the indigenous boys but usually speaking they are softly spoken and quite shy ( I’m making an assumption here). Mundy is fantastic and imo your best of the current leaders, ballas can’t comment on him from this POV and sandi likewise.

Compare to your 2013-2015 team you had Macca, Spurr, Pav, Duffman, Mundy, Sandilands, emerging Fyfe a much stronger leadership core.
Bye.
 

tants

Norm Smith Medallist
Jul 30, 2009
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Sorry for the intrusion but to me this seems like a leadership problem.

Bell is a good start but honestly can’t think of any other board members/ footy heads that deserve praise need more leadership uptop.

Coaching wise Lyon is experienced but I firmly believe these days you need to have a strong core coaching group the old one boss and underlings is going out very quickly need more quality assistants and Ross needs to trust his team more.

Player wise over 27-8 you have of the top of my head. Ballas, Mundy, Sandi, Fyfe, Walters. Fyfe is a brilliant on field general but is quite the quirky one off field doesn’t strike me as a leader of men type, Walters is a great role model for the indigenous boys but usually speaking they are softly spoken and quite shy ( I’m making an assumption here). Mundy is fantastic and imo your best of the current leaders, ballas can’t comment on him from this POV and sandi likewise.

Compare to your 2013-2015 team you had Macca, Spurr, Pav, Duffman, Mundy, Sandilands, emerging Fyfe a much stronger leadership core.
I see you have been listening to 6PR and reading the WA press. Well done on your unique opinions.
 

FreoMonocle

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Apr 25, 2011
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I think that people have the wrong end of the stick.

In a 2 horse town, where the first horse got the biggest sponsors and basically carved out the audience as the state team, the media isn't going to annoy the lions share of the market. So horse number 2 gets all the negative press (real and imagined - courtesy of sensationalism and clickbait, plus some nasty pieces of work in the media that unashamedly make a lot of it up). We've had one or two players in their 20's do what some players in every club do, get a bit toasted etc, but the blowtorch only comes on to one club for it - ours. We don't have violent psychopaths in the playing group getting rough off the field or beating up their missus, we don't have drink driving charges, fraud, embezzlement scandals,captains sleeping with team mates missus sort of issues.

We publicly enforce bans on poor player behaviour, we don't sweep it under the carpet. We've had 1 player leave to go on exceptional, mind melting money to another team, aside from that, there is no player exodus, just the occasional prefer to go home coz I knocked up the girlfriend or whatever. If we had big culture issues, young Victorians wouldn't be signing extensions, they'd be doing everything to wriggle out of the place.

If Hackdorn yells burn the witch and points at Freo, why the hell are we lining up with cigarette lighters and a can of fuel? Enough is enough, don't swallow the bulls**t being fed to you. We are the underdogs, we need to have each others backs - not throwing bricks at our own with the rest of the crowd.
 

dockshark

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May 13, 2007
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I think that people have the wrong end of the stick.

In a 2 horse town, where the first horse got the biggest sponsors and basically carved out the audience as the state team, the media isn't going to annoy the lions share of the market. So horse number 2 gets all the negative press (real and imagined - courtesy of sensationalism and clickbait, plus some nasty pieces of work in the media that unashamedly make a lot of it up). We've had one or two players in their 20's do what some players in every club do, get a bit toasted etc, but the blowtorch only comes on to one club for it - ours. We don't have violent psychopaths in the playing group getting rough off the field or beating up their missus, we don't have drink driving charges, fraud, embezzlement scandals,captains sleeping with team mates missus sort of issues.

We publicly enforce bans on poor player behaviour, we don't sweep it under the carpet. We've had 1 player leave to go on exceptional, mind melting money to another team, aside from that, there is no player exodus, just the occasional prefer to go home coz I knocked up the girlfriend or whatever. If we had big culture issues, young Victorians wouldn't be signing extensions, they'd be doing everything to wriggle out of the place.

If Hackdorn yells burn the witch and points at Freo, why the hell are we lining up with cigarette lighters and a can of fuel? Enough is enough, don't swallow the bulls**t being fed to you. We are the underdogs, we need to have each others backs - not throwing bricks at our own with the rest of the crowd.

I absolutely agree, but ultimately what we need is to get our s**t together on the field. Do that and most of the noise goes away.

We are an easy target because we are 25 years in, unsuccessful and experiencing a range of issues off field ranging from player discipline to a coach who may or may not have done something wrong in the past. For the media it's like taking wheat from pi**ed chooks and we are our own worst enemy.

Unfortunately the truth doesn't care how we feel about it.
 

maka

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Jan 15, 2011
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Bring on the NBA playoffs, go my Houston Rockets, AFL is starting? Ahh didn’t even realise, well I did but I no longer care, so mad
 

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Megalon

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Jun 22, 2010
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I think that people have the wrong end of the stick.

In a 2 horse town, where the first horse got the biggest sponsors and basically carved out the audience as the state team, the media isn't going to annoy the lions share of the market. So horse number 2 gets all the negative press (real and imagined - courtesy of sensationalism and clickbait, plus some nasty pieces of work in the media that unashamedly make a lot of it up). We've had one or two players in their 20's do what some players in every club do, get a bit toasted etc, but the blowtorch only comes on to one club for it - ours. We don't have violent psychopaths in the playing group getting rough off the field or beating up their missus, we don't have drink driving charges, fraud, embezzlement scandals,captains sleeping with team mates missus sort of issues.

We publicly enforce bans on poor player behaviour, we don't sweep it under the carpet. We've had 1 player leave to go on exceptional, mind melting money to another team, aside from that, there is no player exodus, just the occasional prefer to go home coz I knocked up the girlfriend or whatever. If we had big culture issues, young Victorians wouldn't be signing extensions, they'd be doing everything to wriggle out of the place.

If Hackdorn yells burn the witch and points at Freo, why the hell are we lining up with cigarette lighters and a can of fuel? Enough is enough, don't swallow the bulls**t being fed to you. We are the underdogs, we need to have each others backs - not throwing bricks at our own with the rest of the crowd.
Couldn't agree more - I was utterly surprised in our more successful years when the media (mainly CH7 and the west) began to put a positive spin on everything Freo did, after the many years of gutter journalism. Not suprising now I look back on it - it's a media culture of putting winners up on a pedastal while kicking the loser while he's down, to make stories of heroes and villains to sell papers. Now Freo don't have the same on field success as 2012-2015 we are the villain again.

Do you think the media would have covered the Ben Cousins story so much if his downfall occurred during their premiership year? No way
 

tonygeeks

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Sep 11, 2016
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Build your culture with contracts would be my suggestion

3+ year deals for absolute proven performers and solid off field citizens who would rather win the game than get 3 Brownlow votes

2-3 year deals for up and coming players you think will improve and proven performers with no baggage from other teams

1-2 year deals for younger players you are undecided on

1 year deals for everyone else

Max 2 year deals for any off field staff

If you don't like it bye bye ..... don't fear the unknown




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wayToGo_

Norm Smith Medallist
Oct 24, 2015
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We just need to start winning again and everyone will STFU.

In the meantime supporters need to ignore the media BS. Have your criticisms about the club, the coaches, the players, the S&C team, the admin, the board, whatever... just use your brains instead of being (mis)guided by the media. If the media blurts out a bunch of BS and nobody is there to hear it, then they will fade into obscurity.
 

im_a_lazy_sod

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When you're getting wins, people will say "it's amazing how well they have adapted in spite of all their off-field troubles to win. Well done"

When you're losing they say "They are losing because of those off-field issues"
 

Kram

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What the hell, just found out Brady Grey is at WC. This season just gets worse and worse.
 

Schauermann

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Build your culture with contracts would be my suggestion

3+ year deals for absolute proven performers and solid off field citizens who would rather win the game than get 3 Brownlow votes

2-3 year deals for up and coming players you think will improve and proven performers with no baggage from other teams

1-2 year deals for younger players you are undecided on

1 year deals for everyone else

Max 2 year deals for any off field staff
Somehow a two-edged sword. Could avoid some medium performers on long term deals, but we won't make bargains either.
 

refresh

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what gets up my nose is we knew or should have known what we were buying had flaws. It was contentious at the time, we ploughed ahead and now there is fracture and we become an easy target. Is there any surprise here?
I still think (hope) it will work out. Just annoys me how we always take the high risk hard road
 

wayToGo_

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Just annoys me how we always take the high risk hard road
We kind of had to with our **** drafting for half a decade. We could have gone conservative (and drafted instead of trading) but we'd be in no better position imo. You don't need every trade to be a hit just like you don't need every draft pick to be a hit. We'll have enough of both from the past three off seasons.
 

tonygeeks

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Somehow a two-edged sword. Could avoid some medium performers on long term deals, but we won't make bargains either.
Well just looking at the way the game is going , more player movement seems inevitable so short contracts will give you much more flexibility to keep moving with the trends of the game

Players are getting more money orientated , more loyalty to themselves and their families than footy clubs. Any club with a few big bad contracts on the books will be at a serious disadvantage I think
Take a lot of cheap rookies , overpay / 1-2 year deals for the odd older gun and give out long term deals very very selectively


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FreoMonocle

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Well just looking at the way the game is going , more player movement seems inevitable so short contracts will give you much more flexibility to keep moving with the trends of the game

Players are getting more money orientated , more loyalty to themselves and their families than footy clubs. Any club with a few big bad contracts on the books will be at a serious disadvantage I think
Take a lot of cheap rookies , overpay / 1-2 year deals for the odd older gun and give out long term deals very very selectively

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Absolutely see what your saying there.

But equally, it would appear that we've had no issues in re-signing young interstate players, or old ones. Neale, the offer to move clubs and get mind boggling money is something he will probably never have after his footy career, I can't begrudge him an opportunity to set him up for his future with his partner (and possibly kids).
 

Deveraux

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Apr 3, 2015
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The negativity would cease in the event of a 12 or 13 win season even if there was still the odd off field issue.

There's no way the pitchforks in here would be out in the event of that happening... now imagine hypothetically if the club did everything the same but with only 6-8 wins you would be calling for heads.

We get it, we all like to win but a rebuild will do that, you don't get to go through that without getting some s**t on you.

Such a fickle bunch sometimes. Chin up.
 

blue shark

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The negativity would cease in the event of a 12 or 13 win season even if there was still the odd off field issue.

There's no way the pitchforks in here would be out in the event of that happening... now imagine hypothetically if the club did everything the same but with only 6-8 wins you would be calling for heads.

We get it, we all like to win but a rebuild will do that, you don't get to go through that without getting some s**t on you.

Such a fickle bunch sometimes. Chin up.
We need results not excuses, other first time coaches have delivered, Hawks from 2005 rebuilding to 2008 premiers, Bulldogs, WC, Ross
and the club have had 3 years to implement planning to make Freo a force, instead we have a suspect game plan, permanent injury and
complaints about six day breaks.
What is the point in paying a huge salary to an experienced coach if there is no real improvement?
You can tell with footy clubs when they are up and about, excitement, we are not the worse, but in no way are we revelutionary.
 
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