News Epic Barrett smack down of Ricciuto

[King Elvis]

Spot on.

 

[Vhaluus]

You don't make a grand final if you are a mentally weak side. We were an also ran quality* in a league full of also rans. Someone just had to win it.

That grand final loss really comes down to us being unduly arrogant, and some bad luck. We'll cover the bad luck first which was by the end of the first quarter we had lost the two catalysts for our spike in form in the back end of 2017 in McGovern and Greenwood to injury (both structural pieces, but two players who really did make others better by being able to cover weaknesses). Greenwood is just sh*t luck, McGovern is rather unforgivable because we had time to realise that oh sh*t, we need a small, not Otten. So the lack of a plan B really hurt us. Not only that but we had played right into a high pressure side hands by selecting a slow side. The unfortunate issue with having finals is luck can end up playing a rather key role in deciding who was the best, but I fully accept we deserved that occurring.

What needed to happen was some accountability with coaches and then the rest was show faith in the players, refresh and put it behind you quickly. You do not scapegoat.

Still the margins of any sport are fine enough that if we kicked 6.1 instead of 4.3 in the first quarter, we probably end up with a premiership just by it putting Richmond on the ropes against the 2nd most potent attack that has existed in the AFL era.

Though we have probably ended up being a cautionary tale that there is nothing to be gained by revisiting a lost grand final, if anything.



* obligatory ******* draft sanctions. fu** Trigg and Chapman for costing us a dynasty.

I don't buy bad luck. I also don't buy the mentally weak argument.

We lost the grand final for two reasons, in order
1)Poor list selection policy that had a huge number of our players going into the grand final battered and bruised or carrying niggling injuries because we refused to ever rest anyone.
2)Injuries to key players, possibly linked to #1. The lack of experience that got put into junior players because of #1 further exacerbated this
3)Home ground advantage.

 

[Murray2503]

Ricciuto is a massive knob, not just a regular knob. His standing as a great player of our 'franchise' is being replaced by his negative impact he is having as a director. Way too much power, continuing the tradition of jobs for the boys, not what you know but who you know. His lack of support for arguably our greatest player was both disappointing and sad.

In Roo's mind our greatest player is likely himself. Hoping the Afl removes him as he is damaging the brand and costing the Afl money which is generally the only time they act

 

[Golumless]

I don't buy bad luck. I also don't buy the mentally weak argument.

We lost the grand final for two reasons, in order
1)Poor list selection policy that had a huge number of our players going into the grand final battered and bruised or carrying niggling injuries because we refused to ever rest anyone.
2)Injuries to key players, possibly linked to #1. The lack of experience that got put into junior players because of #1 further exacerbated this
3)Home ground advantage.

On the first one. I doubt that. We had two enforced rests within the 5 weeks prior. There may have been some niggles but we would have definitely been well rested compared to Richmond, who had a more perilous path to the grand final. Come the 26th week of the season, everyone is battered and bruised.

Isn't injuries to key players just bad luck? Sure we didn't help ourselves with our training causing hamstrings to ping nearly weekly, but who gets it we can't really control. We didn't cover ourselves in glory dealing with it either with our stubborn refusal to do anything but what we were doing.

I do agree with home ground advantage though. That is certainly one factor. Especially as Richmond were dominant there.

 

[SugarShane]

You don't make a grand final if you are a mentally weak side. We were an also ran quality* in a league full of also rans. Someone just had to win it.

That grand final loss really comes down to us being unduly arrogant, and some bad luck. We'll cover the bad luck first which was by the end of the first quarter we had lost the two catalysts for our spike in form in the back end of 2017 in McGovern and Greenwood to injury (both structural pieces, but two players who really did make others better by being able to cover weaknesses). Greenwood is just sh*t luck, McGovern is rather unforgivable because we had time to realise that oh sh*t, we need a small, not Otten. So the lack of a plan B really hurt us. Not only that but we had played right into a high pressure side hands by selecting a slow side. The unfortunate issue with having finals is luck can end up playing a rather key role in deciding who was the best, but I fully accept we deserved that occurring.

What needed to happen was some accountability with coaches and then the rest was show faith in the players, refresh and put it behind you quickly. You do not scapegoat.

Still the margins of any sport are fine enough that if we kicked 6.1 instead of 4.3 in the first quarter, we probably end up with a premiership just by it putting Richmond on the ropes against the 2nd most potent attack that has existed in the AFL era.

Though we have probably ended up being a cautionary tale that there is nothing to be gained by revisiting a lost grand final, if anything.



* obligatory ******* draft sanctions. fu** Trigg and Chapman for costing us a dynasty.

All great points. And even with all the bad luck pre or early game, we were still in the box seat at quarter time. There are so many things even just in the first 2 quarters that could've stopped the momentum from swinging and who knows where we'd be now if even one was different.

What if Eddie gets a free for holding the man in the goalsquare?

What if Atkins doesn't try and take advantage on Tex's free kick when he had an opponent literally in his back pocket?

What if Lynch gets paid a 50 for an extremely late hit after his mark like they had been all season?

What if they pay holding the man against Dusty with a handful of jumper when they did the same thing in our forward line minutes earlier?

But yeah, they didn't, so here we are.

 

[feenix67]

All great points. And even with all the bad luck pre or early game, we were still in the box seat at quarter time. There are so many things even just in the first 2 quarters that could've stopped the momentum from swinging and who knows where we'd be now if even one was different.

What if Eddie gets a free for holding the man in the goalsquare?

What if Atkins doesn't try and take advantage on Tex's free kick when he had an opponent literally in his back pocket?

What if Lynch gets paid a 50 for an extremely late hit after his mark like they had been all season?

What if they pay holding the man against Dusty with a handful of jumper when they did the same thing in our forward line minutes earlier?

But yeah, they didn't, so here we are.

What if a few blokes had shown leadership at half time instead of throwing the toys out...

 

[Cap]

You don't make a grand final if you are a mentally weak side. We were an also ran quality* in a league full of also rans. Someone just had to win it.

That grand final loss really comes down to us being unduly arrogant, and some bad luck. We'll cover the bad luck first which was by the end of the first quarter we had lost the two catalysts for our spike in form in the back end of 2017 in McGovern and Greenwood to injury (both structural pieces, but two players who really did make others better by being able to cover weaknesses). Greenwood is just sh*t luck, McGovern is rather unforgivable because we had time to realise that oh sh*t, we need a small, not Otten. So the lack of a plan B really hurt us. Not only that but we had played right into a high pressure side hands by selecting a slow side. The unfortunate issue with having finals is luck can end up playing a rather key role in deciding who was the best, but I fully accept we deserved that occurring.

What needed to happen was some accountability with coaches and then the rest was show faith in the players, refresh and put it behind you quickly. You do not scapegoat.

Still the margins of any sport are fine enough that if we kicked 6.1 instead of 4.3 in the first quarter, we probably end up with a premiership just by it putting Richmond on the ropes against the 2nd most potent attack that has existed in the AFL era.

Though we have probably ended up being a cautionary tale that there is nothing to be gained by revisiting a lost grand final, if anything.



* obligatory ******* draft sanctions. fu** Trigg and Chapman for costing us a dynasty.

Without doubt we were crucified by the umps and selecting Andy Often is same same problem that didn't get us the rebuilding in '18 we should have had.

Arrogance and preparation is down to the players, they have to take some accountability for that.

 

[SugarShane]

Without doubt we were crucified by the umps and selecting Andy Often is same same problem that didn't get us the rebuilding in '18 we should have had.

Arrogance and preparation is down to the players, they have to take some accountability for that.

Great bloke but selecting Otten was a huge balls up. They were so sure we'd romp it in that we picked slow old Otten and just assumed we'd carry him to a flag.

 

[n4sir]

You don't make a grand final if you are a mentally weak side. We were an also ran quality* in a league full of also rans. Someone just had to win it.

That grand final loss really comes down to us being unduly arrogant, and some bad luck. We'll cover the bad luck first which was by the end of the first quarter we had lost the two catalysts for our spike in form in the back end of 2017 in McGovern and Greenwood to injury (both structural pieces, but two players who really did make others better by being able to cover weaknesses). Greenwood is just sh*t luck, McGovern is rather unforgivable because we had time to realise that oh sh*t, we need a small, not Otten. So the lack of a plan B really hurt us. Not only that but we had played right into a high pressure side hands by selecting a slow side. The unfortunate issue with having finals is luck can end up playing a rather key role in deciding who was the best, but I fully accept we deserved that occurring.

I think you meant to say Charlie Cameron, not McGovern (who was filthy to be left out of the GF side - basically for Otten. I have no doubt a few others in the team felt the same). Point made though, we consciously went in too tall and too slow - it was the same level of arrogance as our off field leaders who did a TV story on how we had new special cabinet made for the 2017 Premiership trophy to come...

 

[BACCS]

Damo was saying tonight that the McKenna breach was minor and the media collective had been too hard on him... yet, our training breach that didn’t even break state law deserved draft pick sanctions?! * off

 

[Cap]

Damo was saying tonight that the McKenna breach was minor and the media collective had been too hard on him... yet, our training breach that didn’t even break state law deserved draft pick sanctions?! fu** off

You mean Damien Barrett?

 

[Golumless]

I think you meant to say Charlie Cameron, not McGovern (who was filthy to be left out of the GF side - basically for Otten. I have no doubt a few others in the team felt the same). Point made though, we consciously went in too tall and too slow - it was the same level of arrogance as our off field leaders who did a TV story on how we had new special cabinet made for the 2017 Premiership trophy to come...

Nah, Gov was ridiculously vital and was left out if I remember correctly due to a hamstring strain (though was probably fit). After all, he was the forward who was covering Lynch playing an unaccountable, well, whatever Lynch does, whilst both being the most reliable aerial threat and offering + defence for a tall forward (two things either Tex or JJ weren't good at). Whilst I loathe the phrase non-statistical, despite the stat sheet not showing it, he really was the piece that made that forward line tick by allowing others to focus on their own strengths.

We went in too tall and too slow because we didn't understand why what we were using was working, and valuing the wrong players in it. Unfortunately, we missed the memo when Gov was injured earlier in the year (it's something like a 40+% differential in win rate with and without McGovern that year).

Cameron had a really weird 2017. Had talent, but looked really out of sorts for a large portion of it. Probably the piece we've had the hardest time replacing all up despite though. I am sure we are regretting that one, week in week out. Price you pay for s**t cap management.

 

[n4sir]

Before that Geelong weren't anything special though which is the point I guess. How did they get there? How did they create what they ended up becoming?

Sloane is great and a courageous player and everything but does he significantly influence the behaviour of others?

It's complicated and there were multiple things, I guess in Geelong's case the majority of the prime talent on field was already there (especially via father son rules they had the equivalent of 2x #1 picks multiple years, and drafting both Selwood & Hawkins that year didn't exactly hurt their cause) but up to 2007 they were seen as underachievers.

I remember after the 2006 game at Football Park when we destroyed them - Mattner & (gulp) Burton just burned everyone off all day and Bomber Thompson was interviewed afterwards saying something like they were not in the same postcode, not even the same planet... They looked at our fitness staff and in 2007 poached the right guy to head their program.

Troublemakers like Steven King were let go and the new leaders (Harley, Mooney, Scarlett, Rooke) were in place. Steve Johnson's long drinking session followed by trying to down suntan lotion at the start of the 2007 season was dealt with quickly by everyone at the club from the top to the playing group, in effect saying the stupid partying stops now.

In short, from that moment on Bomber had the right backing, the players were primed and motivated, and when the wins started it was like a locomotive with inertia acting on their side.

 

[Redline]

Cameron had a really weird 2017. Had talent, but looked really out of sorts for a large portion of it. Probably the piece we've had the hardest time replacing all up despite though. I am sure we are regretting that one, week in week out. Price you pay for sh*t cap management.

Agreed, Cameron checked out mid season.

 

[1970crow]

Damo was saying tonight that the McKenna breach was minor and the media collective had been too hard on him... yet, our training breach that didn’t even break state law deserved draft pick sanctions?! fu** off

Yawn. They only reported draft pick sanctions because they were running a deliberate cheating act story where the coach intended to break rules to gain an advantage. Was just a regulation utensil up so we got the 1 week and Hart 2 games for needing to know better given his role.

 

[skam85]

Agreed, Cameron checked out mid season.

He sure had a shocker in the prelim.

 

[Golumless]

He sure had a shocker in the prelim.

Yeah, but so did everyone. Every whipping boy on this board (bar Mackay) really filled their boots that match.

We got damn lucky to get a preliminary opponent who forfeited the match before they even got on the plane.

 

[Redline]

He sure had a shocker in the prelim.

I thought someone would mention that, your right he was unreal that night. Outside that he really looked disinterested in the second half of the season though.

 

[SugarShane]

That was always our issue with Charlie. His best was nothing short of elite. His worst was invisible, and for a big whack of 2017 that's what we got. Lucky for Brisbane he seems to have matured a bit and is slightly more consistent now (his 2018 was much the same as he was for us).

 

[jackster83]

That was always our issue with Charlie. His best was nothing short of elite. His worst was invisible, and for a big whack of 2017 that's what we got. Lucky for Brisbane he seems to have matured a bit and is slightly more consistent now (his 2018 was much the same as he was for us).

Maybe we're just lousy at developing players?

 

[Golumless]

Maybe we're just lousy at developing players?

Nah, Charlie was all role.

We had him playing a defensive forward, and if he did anything offensively, that's a bonus (Frankly, we didn't need that offensive production, at all). After all, we had Betts on the other side of the small forwards and a few key talls who were >40 goals. The supply just isn't there outside of a reliable gimmick of bursting out of the centre.

His biggest issue at the end of the day here was Betts, and that he had the confidence to be more than just a Pupolo. Kudos to him for going for it and getting it to work.

 

[mistylake]

For all his faults, I do feel a bit for Roo. Our gutless wonders occupying the CEO and Chairman's positions have been allowed to hide and throw others under the bus since 2018.

They all need to go.

Unfortunately non are self aware and going to fall upon their swords.
We have no obvious mechanism for removing them.

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

Your Domains

 

[6BTS]

Damo was saying tonight that the McKenna breach was minor and the media collective had been too hard on him... yet, our training breach that didn’t even break state law deserved draft pick sanctions?! fu** off

I don't think Barrett was calling for draft pick sanctions. I know Caroline Wilson called for draft sanctions.

 

[Sanders]

On the subject of Roo, many years later ...

anyone still believe that ‘parvo’ virus thing? Wonder what the real issue was.

either way it was buddy annoying