EPL Clubs Falling Behind Elite

[jd2010]

In the quarters we will (likely) have;

3 Spanish (will be 2 if Chelsea win)
2 English (will be 3 if Chelsea win)
2 Italian
1 German (likely)

The English clubs are pretty fairly represented are they not?

I think the main issue is that the 2 best players of this generation have chosen to play in Spain and the best national team of this generation is Spain and as a result the UCL has been dominated in recent times by Spain.

Yeah the numbers stack up.

However one of the 2 English sides only got through due to a Europa league level opponent in the last round

 

[Sozabarus]

Yeah the numbers stack up.

However one of the 2 English sides only got through due to a Europa league level opponent in the last round

Love it.

 

[QuietB]

Yeah the numbers stack up.

However one of the 2 English sides only got through due to a Europa league level opponent in the last round

And so did Bayern and Roma.

 

[jd2010]

And so did Bayern and Roma.

Yeah in terms of weakest sides Besiktas probably second 2nd weakest behind City's opponent. Shaktar over two legs isn't easy at all

 

[moomba]

Pretty sure England have the highest co-efficient from this year's European comps.

By some distance too.

 

[jd2010]

Of the 8 left there's 4 that can win it. Two from Spain one each from Germany and England. Would say this thread title is completely false now. Last few years there hasn't been a genuine English CL contender

 

[QuietB]

Of the 8 left there's 4 that can win it. Two from Spain one each from Germany and England. Would say this thread title is completely false now. Last few years there hasn't been a genuine English CL contender

I give Man City a chance as well

 

[Established1870]

I think the main issue is that the 2 best players of this generation have chosen to play in Spain and the best national team of this generation is Spain and as a result the UCL has been dominated in recent times by Spain.

That makes sense for Real and Barca dominating but it doesn't explain Atletico or Sevilla doing well most years in Europe, Monaco knocking out two established English sides, Liverpool and Spurs failing to make the knockout rounds in fairly easy groups and a host of other recent events that have occurred with English sides.

 

[Established1870]

Of the 8 left there's 4 that can win it. Two from Spain one each from Germany and England. Would say this thread title is completely false now. Last few years there hasn't been a genuine English CL contender

I really wouldn't rule out Juventus just yet. I think if they get lucky with the draw then they could go all the way.

 

[jd2010]

I really wouldn't rule out Juventus just yet. I think if they get lucky with the draw then they could go all the way.

Across the next two rounds if they can avoid Madrid, Barca, City or Bayern they could make the final. From there anything can happen

 

[Established1870]

Agreed.

The EPL style is fast and physical moreso than the other leagues. This generally means that the EPL needs players already physically ready or technically competent to make up for their individual lack of physicality.

I.e. the EPL does not have time to nurture players and they want the finished product.

The other leagues know this, and the clubs nurture players until they can maximise profits via a sale to an EPL club.

An example from a Lazio fan's point of view is Wesley Hoedt.

Signed from AZ Alkmaar as a free transfer in 2015.

Sold to Southampton for 17 million euros in 2017.

This is actually a big reason why English sides in general suck in Europe. Since they've gotten richer and richer, it's like a game to see who can spend the most on s**t. I like Hoedt but he isn't exactly worth that much. Everton spent shitloads on mediocre players like Tosun. Liverpool went and got VvD for 75 million when they could've signed Stephan De Vrij for free in the summer who is the better CB by a mile. Liverpool in general have spent big on fairly average players (Lovren, Moreno) although under Klopp they've improved on that front. Chelsea's recent transfer windows are just one WTF moment after another. Arsenal have been hit and miss for years now. Only City and Spurs generally get bang for their buck whereas top sides across Europe nail most of their transfers.

 

[Latro]

And so did Bayern and Roma.

So did Juve

 

[Collingwoodity]

Pretty sure England have the highest co-efficient from this year's European comps.

By some distance too.

Horrible reasoning.


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[moomba]

Horrible reasoning.


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What reasoning?

 

[Collingwoodity]

What reasoning?

That the co-efficient is a means for determining whether epl clubs are falling behind the elite.


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[RossFC]

2 English clubs in the last 8. Up on 1 last season.

 

[Collingwoodity]

2 English clubs in the last 8. Up on 1 last season.

Man City look the goods. Liverpool are a tough one to finger how good they are.

“Traditional heavyweights” Chelsea man utd and arsenal can no longer cut it in the champions league. Chelsea and man utd in particular are horrible on and off the field.


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[WealstoneRaider]

I think if you’re realistic English clubs ****ed it up in these second legs. Didn’t lose a game in the first legs but didn’t win one in the second. You can disregard City and ‘pool results as they were essentially through. Chelsea had a hard task and actually played well in both legs against the probable favourites, spurs although I’m biased to a degree were unlucky (can argue a tad naive but I’m not sure) while United were pish. If both Liverpool and City get done in the QFs you’ll have to say the epl hasn’t really moved forward. I think City can make the final though personally

 

[kreglze]

3 Spanish
2 English
2 Italy
1 Germany

Where is the Bundesliga at?

 

[UnitedWarrior93]

Man City look the goods. Liverpool are a tough one to finger how good they are.

“Traditional heavyweights” Chelsea man utd and arsenal can no longer cut it in the champions league. Chelsea and man utd in particular are horrible on and off the field.


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We’ve lost our way big time in Europe lately, been a mess since SAF retired, had a good fun after our 2008 CL win though, think we made 2 more finals after that but ran into Barcelona.

Still can’t believe how pathetic we were yesterday.

 

[Kompany]

I think if you’re realistic English clubs ****** it up in these second legs. Didn’t lose a game in the first legs but didn’t win one in the second. You can disregard City and ‘pool results as they were essentially through. Chelsea had a hard task and actually played well in both legs against the probable favourites, spurs although I’m biased to a degree were unlucky (can argue a tad naive but I’m not sure) while United were pish. If both Liverpool and City get done in the QFs you’ll have to say the epl hasn’t really moved forward. I think City can make the final though personally

I'd agree with most of that. I'm not saying Juve didn't deserve it but Spurs were a bit unlucky. Was just a classic 50/50 tie imo.

Chelsea played well but not sure Barcelona are favourites. I can't work them out. They're clearly a shadow of the team a few years ago but they're getting results in Europe and la liga.

This is actually an exciting CL this season. It's hard to pick a favourite out of Real, Barcelona, City and Bayern, taking into account teams' forms. You can't rule out Juve and on their day Liverpool has a chance as well.

On the EPL, people shouldn't focus so much on leagues performing. It's a popular topic but in the end it's still clubs individually competing. Barcelona has been on the decline and Real should be past or at the end of their peak as well, so that creates opportunities for others. English teams dominated a while ago, but looking back now it seemed like a coincidence that several clubs (Liverpool under Benitez, Chelsea under Mourinho, Utd with Fergie) peaked at the same time.

 

[WealstoneRaider]

I'd agree with most of that. I'm not saying Juve didn't deserve it but Spurs were a bit unlucky. Was just a classic 50/50 tie imo.

Chelsea played well but not sure Barcelona are favourites. I can't work them out. They're clearly a shadow of the team a few years ago but they're getting results in Europe and la liga.

This is actually an exciting CL this season. It's hard to pick a favourite out of Real, Barcelona, City and Bayern, taking into account teams' forms. You can't rule out Juve and on their day Liverpool has a chance as well.

On the EPL, people shouldn't focus so much on leagues performing. It's a popular topic but in the end it's still clubs individually competing. Barcelona has been on the decline and Real should be past or at the end of their peak as well, so that creates opportunities for others. English teams dominated a while ago, but looking back now it seemed like a coincidence that several clubs (Liverpool under Benitez, Chelsea under Mourinho, Utd with Fergie) peaked at the same time.

Yeah I agree with you.

Decent line-up left, would have been even juicer had United brought their A game and been there instead of Sevilla (as harsh as that may sound). Also can’t help but think spurs or Chelsea should be there ahead of Roma and you’ve arguably got the best 8 clubs who entered the competition. Looking forward to the draw though

 

[Kompany]

Roma got 4/6 against Chelsea though. Atletico got 4/6 against Roma and Chelsea got 4/6 against Atletico. Atletico must be kicking themselves for their slow start of the season and 2 draws against Qarabag. It was a bit weird how that group went.

 

[citizen-erased]

I think if you’re realistic English clubs ****** it up in these second legs. Didn’t lose a game in the first legs but didn’t win one in the second. You can disregard City and ‘pool results as they were essentially through. Chelsea had a hard task and actually played well in both legs against the probable favourites, spurs although I’m biased to a degree were unlucky (can argue a tad naive but I’m not sure) while United were pish. If both Liverpool and City get done in the QFs you’ll have to say the epl hasn’t really moved forward. I think City can make the final though personally

Chelsea were always going to struggle against Barca at the Nou Camp.

Spurs should have beaten Juve, but for naivety. Defensively sound teams like Juve would not squander a 2 away goal draw in the next round, let alone squander it when 1-0 up in the second leg.
We need to learn from this.

But for that, there should be 4 english teams through.
How Utd lost is staggering.

Very different reasons for the 3 clubs eliminated, but it goes to the point that in the CL, the english clubs fall behind the elites.
Bayern, Barca, Madrid, Juve - how often are they in the final 4 or 8.

 

[Latro]

3 Spanish
2 English
2 Italy
1 Germany

Where is the Bundesliga at?

Well a one team league cant really get more teams through.