EPL Matchday 2

[jd2010]

Anyone that would trade silverware for 14-16th placed nothingness is a moron.

That analogy is also the worst thing I've ever read and makes no sense.

They preferred seeing their team have quality players and semi-regular wins than have crap players & results regularly. At least from 14-16th in the top division there's hope for kicking on to a lot more than they're a chance doing when in the bottom half of a lower division.

The league cup being a 5/10 is the bit of the analogy that made sense most to me, sure you'd celebrate it and have a good time with it. Maybe even more than once. But you wouldn't want to settle down long-term for just a league cup. Especially if you had the choice between that and something better which I think both Swansea & Birmingham sized clubs could

 

[SM]

They preferred seeing their team have quality players and semi-regular wins than have crap players & results regularly. At least from 14-16th in the top division there's hope for kicking on to a lot more than they're a chance doing when in the bottom half of a lower division.

The league cup being a 5/10 is the bit of the analogy that made sense most to me, sure you'd celebrate it and have a good time with it. Maybe even more than once. But you wouldn't want to settle down long-term for just a league cup. Especially if you had the choice between that and something better which I think both Swansea & Birmingham sized clubs could

So they're plastic then, that's a shame.

 

[SM]

To me, finishing year after year in 16th in the PL is settling for the cashed-up bogan while a bit of silverware is the flashy, gorgeous model you might only get one chance at.

And that analogy makes a lot more sense.

 

[jd2010]

To me, finishing year after year in 16th in the PL is settling for the cashed-up bogan while a bit of silverware is the flashy, gorgeous model you might only get one chance at.

And that analogy makes a lot more sense.

You're more likely to jag the model from 14-16th in the EPL than 16-20th in the Championship and lower. Down there is where you start meeting some of Wayne Rooney's paid workers

 

[jd2010]

So they're plastic then, that's a shame.

They're plastic because they find it more enjoyable going to watch their team win or have better players?

 

[SM]

You're more likely to jag the model from 14-16th in the EPL than 16-20th in the Championship and lower. Down there is where you start meeting some of Wayne Rooney's paid workers

Not quite sure what that's got to do with it. Clubs would rather have silverware. People who don't want silverware are gloryhunting (read: desperate for PL survival) plastics.

 

[SM]

They're plastic because they find it more enjoyable going to watch their team win or have better players?

Yep.

 

[jd2010]

Not quite sure what that's got to do with it. Clubs would rather have silverware. People who don't want silverware are gloryhunting (read: desperate for PL survival) plastics.

It's not about not wanting silverware though. It's would you rather long-term safety and good football over long-term crap. Sides like Portsmouth & Birmingham have endured quite a bit and their fans have every right to think that they'd have been better off without the trophy if it meant they didn't play in the 4th tier in Pompey's case. It's all hypothetical but some fans definitely would trade it in for that and that does't make them plastic. Without having to go through exactly what they've been through it's hard to say, our league cup win was pretty nothing since we lost players and fell down the league in the season after that. If the worst happened and we went down the season after and never returned I think I'd probably share that view that it wasn't worth it

 

[jd2010]

From WR's glorious WC thread

League Cup

Fa Cup, EL & CL qualifaction

League Title & CL title

 

[SM]

It's not about not wanting silverware though. It's would you rather long-term safety and good football over long-term crap. Sides like Portsmouth & Birmingham have endured quite a bit and their fans have every right to think that they'd have been better off without the trophy if it meant they didn't play in the 4th tier in Pompey's case. It's all hypothetical but some fans definitely would trade it in for that and that does't make them plastic. Without having to go through exactly what they've been through it's hard to say, our league cup win was pretty nothing since we lost players and fell down the league in the season after that. If the worst happened and we went down the season after and never returned I think I'd probably share that view that it wasn't worth it

Portsmouth fans wouldn't give you the FA Cup back for all they've endured. 90% of all lower-league clubs would take silverware over PL dreariness. That's all there is to it.

 

[moomba]

People downplay the league cup by comparing it to staying in the league.

But it's not one or the other. Surely you can aspire to do as well as possible in the league and have one of those magical days out at Wembley.

Love the league cup and hope we win it this season.

 

[jd2010]

Portsmouth fans wouldn't give you the FA Cup back for all they've endured. 90% of all lower-league clubs would take silverware over PL dreariness. That's all there is to it.

Would love to talk to a Wimbledon fan to see what their opinion would be. Slightly different with the club being stolen off them

 

[SM]

Would love to talk to a Wimbledon fan to see what their opinion would be. Slightly different with the club being stolen off them

Not sure why you keep trying to move the goalposts, but I doubt even they would hand back silverware. It defies belief that anyone would. The aim is to be the best you can be and win silverware. Silverware is the pinnacle every team aims to achieve.

 

[moomba]

Would love to talk to a Wimbledon fan to see what their opinion would be. Slightly different with the club being stolen off them

That would have happened whether they won the FA Cup or not. I bet that day is the fondest memory most have of their club.

 

[jd2010]

Not sure why you keep trying to move the goalposts, but I doubt even they would hand back silverware. It defies belief that anyone would. The aim is to be the best you can be and win silverware. Silverware is the pinnacle every team aims to achieve.

It's short-term gain vs. long-term pain. I'd rather have lost the league cup final and kept Berba & Keane and not been s**t the year after. It's not that the league cup caused it but if I had to choose between the two it'd be an enjoyable 9 month 38 game season than 120 mins.

That would have happened whether they won the FA Cup or not. I bet that day is the fondest memory most have of their club.

Yeah a new club was created which is hardly the same as Birmingham & Portsmouth.

 

[SM]

If all you get out of winning the cup is 120 minutes of joy then I don't know what you want out of football.

 

[jd2010]

If all you get out of winning the cup is 120 minutes of joy then I don't know what you want out of football.

You can't really enjoy the league cup for too long after it finishes with a game a few days later and about 3 months of the season to go

 

[moomba]

It's short-term gain vs. long-term pain. I'd rather have lost the league cup final and kept Berba & Keane and not been s**t the year after. It's not that the league cup caused it but if I had to choose between the two it'd be an enjoyable 9 month 38 game season than 120 mins.


Yeah a new club was created which is hardly the same as Birmingham & Portsmouth.

You're making it out to be an either/or situation. League success and cup failure or league failure and cup success.

It's not.

For Wimbledon, Portsmouth, Birmingham, Wigan etc it's a straight choice. Win a cup and then see things turn to s**t, or don't win a cup and then see things turn to s**t.

I doubt there's one that would choose the latter.

 

[Thistle]

Winning trophies is a lot harder and gives so much more joy than finishing mid to lower table in the epl.

 

[WealstoneRaider]

Let’s not forget that just by being in the prem allows us fans to dare to dream. The final destination for all clubs (certainly all championship & above ones) is to be in the PL. Granted most fans would not want to finish 16th year after year but who would think that way? You’d at least be hopeful that at some stage you’d be moving up the league the longer you stayed in the division. Cups are nice and everything, but the aim for clubs and their fans will always be the league. Thankfully I’ve never experienced a relegation but quite frankly it would rip me in two - far more than any cup final defeat could ever do

 

[moomba]

Relegation isn't so bad.

Have some great memories of our time in 2nd and 3rd divisions.

We were lucky I guess that we bounced up and down a fair bit rather than get stuck down for a sustained period. And also that financially it didn't ruin us (it did come close).

But it can be a lot of fun, you tend to win a bit more and it's a good chance to rejuvenate your playing list.

And of course, going through the bad times makes the good times so much better.

 

[SM]

Let’s not forget that just by being in the prem allows us fans to dare to dream. The final destination for all clubs (certainly all championship & above ones) is to be in the PL. Granted most fans would not want to finish 16th year after year but who would think that way? You’d at least be hopeful that at some stage you’d be moving up the league the longer you stayed in the division. Cups are nice and everything, but the aim for clubs and their fans will always be the league. Thankfully I’ve never experienced a relegation but quite frankly it would rip me in two - far more than any cup final defeat could ever do

Sorry but you're wrong in this instance. I'd gladly accept the position we're in now if we'd beaten arsenal. Winning that trophy would have been indescribable.

 

[Zidane98]

Sorry but you're wrong in this instance. I'd gladly accept the position we're in now if we'd beaten arsenal. Winning that trophy would have been indescribable.

Imagine how much you would have baited Cruyff.

 

[Cruyff14]

Imagine how much you would have baited Cruyff.

I'd probably have not cared. There is more to life than sport.

 

[SM]

Imagine how much you would have baited Cruyff.

Nah I'm not that insecure, I'd have moved on but still loved watching replays. I'm convinced arsenal fans don't give that final a second thought now and that's the huge difference between a big 6 club and the rest.

I'm sure wigan, Swansea, portsmouth etc. Fans still re-live their cup triumphs, but some plastics in here seem to think silverware is meaningless. Amazing.