EPL Matchday 21

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RossFC

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I'd say we miss you in there but we really don't. Never seen our thread so harmonious and active with varied posters
Happy to avoid what I can no longer be arsed dealing with.

You all got the scathing rebuke you deserved weeks back. Horrid fan base so out of touch.
What exactly is the problem here? Is this about Mourinho and Levy?
 

Art Vandelay_

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What exactly is the problem here? Is this about Mourinho and Levy?
So multi faceted imo, and largely why I am taking a self-imposed hiatus from our thread. IMV for the most part they all have reasonable ideas and understandings but have tied themselves in knots with contradictions and unrealistic expectations.

Atm there is this widespread discontent at the style Jose has implemented, and yes from time to time I do find it a little boring. However, the high energy football under Pochettino and the great football played under Redknapp and Jol won us nothing - yet is openly pined for as it is the - ‘Tottenham Way’ - an ideology as outdated as the 2nd amendment. An ideology used as a stick to beat Mourinho with, as in, they could tolerate not winning under exciting managers but because Jose us boring there must be trophies.

Both are ideas that had a time, a place, and a context. The ‘Tottenham Way’ refers to winning with style, entertaining football is key, but that style no longer wins us things. Now trophies are determined by £ and € and those that have the most collectively win most of 🏆.

So being the plucky North London club that wins FA Cups, European trophies but rarely challenges for the league now morphs into... winning none of those things and still not being relevant in league title discussions. Money matters in the money rich EPL and CL era we are in.

Which brings us to the contradictions and knots reference. Levy’s record as chairman is used as a stick to beat him with, 1 trophy. So collectively they pine for more trophies you’d be right to assume?? Read the thread recently and you’ll see however that the league cup, which we are now 1 match away from possibly winning, is being denigrated and downplayed. So which is it... Do trophies matter or not??

Reading between the lines it can then be inferred that only certain trophies matter. League and Europe seem most sought after, hence my remarks in recent months about being in a highly arrogant fan base. To openly admonish the chairman for his lack of silverware but turn your nose up at a chance to win some!? fu** off.

So onto those inferred ‘acceptable’ trophies, I have no issues with my fellow fans seeking to win them - I too would love to see us lift the title - but they for the most part denigrate Levy for his transfer spending, and give no credit for the delivery of a new stadium.

A stadium built so that in time we can match those who win trophies regularly financially, an important step. Openly berating the chairman for our netspend or not matching it with the bigger clubs but ignoring the £800m in debts to be repaid (of which £170m must be paid back by April). 21st century football has moved passed ‘cup teams’, it is all about the ability to spend, and the ability to attract. As a perfect example of a club moving in the opposite direction to how we are trying to - just look at Arsenal. Commercial revenue post-Wenger has dived. Less TV/CL money and lots of cheap/free sales. So they find it hard to build a squad that can compete and with each passing year the transfer kitty stagnates or shrinks yet the areas needing attention grow larger and larger. Liverpool don’t win the two biggest trophies in the last 24 months without being able to spend 150m on a top class centrehalf and GK.

Maybe we need similar in various areas, not even accounting for covid related financial difficulties are we presently in a position to do so? IMO not yet. But that is what our off-field investments are working towards. Being able to match sides financially so to then be able to match them in the window and then on the league table.

Are they bad fans or guys? With the exception of 1 no they aren’t. Are they unreasonable in wanting to see success? No. But by god they miss the big picture and necessary processes that have to be laid out for the next building blocks to be possible, and I need a break for banging the head against the wall. Only fire and brimstone, rage and ‘sack’ calls are allowed atm.
 

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RossFC

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So multi faceted imo, and largely why I am taking a self-imposed hiatus from our thread. IMV for the most part they all have reasonable ideas and understandings but have tied themselves in knots with contradictions and unrealistic expectations.

Atm there is this widespread discontent at the style Jose has implemented, and yes from time to time I do find it a little boring. However, the high energy football under Pochettino and the great football played under Redknapp and Jol won us nothing - yet is openly pined for as it is the - ‘Tottenham Way’ - an ideology as outdated as the 2nd amendment. An ideology used as a stick to beat Mourinho with, as in, they could tolerate not winning under exciting managers but because Jose us boring there must be trophies.

Both are ideas that had a time, a place, and a context. The ‘Tottenham Way’ refers to winning with style, entertaining football is key, but that style no longer wins us things. Now trophies are determined by £ and € and those that have the most collectively win most of .

So being the plucky North London club that wins FA Cups, European trophies but rarely challenges for the league now morphs into... winning none of those things and still not being relevant in league title discussions. Money matters in the money rich EPL and CL era we are in.

Which brings us to the contradictions and knots reference. Levy’s record as chairman is used as a stick to beat him with, 1 trophy. So collectively they pine for more trophies you’d be right to assume?? Read the thread recently and you’ll see however that the league cup, which we are now 1 match away from possibly winning, is being denigrated and downplayed. So which is it... Do trophies matter or not??

Reading between the lines it can then be inferred that only certain trophies matter. League and Europe seem most sought after, hence my remarks in recent months about being in a highly arrogant fan base. To openly admonish the chairman for his lack of silverware but turn your nose up at a chance to win some!? fu** off.

So onto those inferred ‘acceptable’ trophies, I have no issues with my fellow fans seeking to win them - I too would love to see us lift the title - but they for the most part denigrate Levy for his transfer spending, and give no credit for the delivery of a new stadium.

A stadium built so that in time we can match those who win trophies regularly financially, an important step. Openly berating the chairman for our netspend or not matching it with the bigger clubs but ignoring the £800m in debts to be repaid (of which £170m must be paid back by April). 21st century football has moved passed ‘cup teams’, it is all about the ability to spend, and the ability to attract. As a perfect example of a club moving in the opposite direction to how we are trying to - just look at Arsenal. Commercial revenue post-Wenger has dived. Less TV/CL money and lots of cheap/free sales. So they find it hard to build a squad that can compete and with each passing year the transfer kitty stagnates or shrinks yet the areas needing attention grow larger and larger. Liverpool don’t win the two biggest trophies in the last 24 months without being able to spend 150m on a top class centrehalf and GK.

Maybe we need similar in various areas, not even accounting for covid related financial difficulties are we presently in a position to do so? IMO not yet. But that is what our off-field investments are working towards. Being able to match sides financially so to then be able to match them in the window and then on the league table.

Are they bad fans or guys? With the exception of 1 no they aren’t. Are they unreasonable in wanting to see success? No. But by god they miss the big picture and necessary processes that have to be laid out for the next building blocks to be possible, and I need a break for banging the head against the wall. Only fire and brimstone, rage and ‘sack’ calls are allowed atm.
Some trophies are better than others, but you need to win that league cup final to break the trophy drought. If Mourinho nets that, then he’s doing what he’s been brought in to do. City though will be a tough task.
 

moomba

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Absolutely nothing wrong with the league cup. A fantastic trophy that I've dreamed of winning every year since I started following football.
 

jd2010

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Absolutely nothing wrong with the league cup. A fantastic trophy that I've dreamed of winning every year since I started following football.
The league cup is not to be laughed at normally. But when you get a forfeit along the way I think it's only fair ours has an * next to it had we beaten you guys in the final. Still would be a fun football game to win but it solves nothing and always has that * next to it
 

jd2010

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Some trophies are better than others, but you need to win that league cup final to break the trophy drought. If Mourinho nets that, then he’s doing what he’s been brought in to do. City though will be a tough task.
Has he been brought in just for a cup at the detriment of league performance? His first 46 games is netting less points per game than Poch's final 46, albeit with a stronger XI now that we've got Reguillon and Hojberg as well as Kane and Son at even higher levels than before. Said in our thread we've improved in 5 areas of the XI and gone backwards just at the 2 CB spots. Yet our ppg has regressed on efforts that got our last manager sacked.

And that's before going into the aesthetics of it all which for some means a lot. For me I'm less phased as it's a results business, but the results aren't there.
 

RossFC

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Has he been brought in just for a cup at the detriment of league performance? His first 46 games is netting less points per game than Poch's final 46, albeit with a stronger XI now that we've got Reguillon and Hojberg as well as Kane and Son at even higher levels than before. Said in our thread we've improved in 5 areas of the XI and gone backwards just at the 2 CB spots. Yet our ppg has regressed on efforts that got our last manager sacked.

And that's before going into the aesthetics of it all which for some means a lot. For me I'm less phased as it's a results business, but the results aren't there.
I recall people saying that Mourinho is a winner and will bring trophies to Spurs. If he wins the league cup, then that's a trophy. If he loses the final and then flops in the league as well, then sure, go wild.
 

jd2010

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I recall people saying that Mourinho is a winner and will bring trophies to Spurs. If he wins the league cup, then that's a trophy. If he loses the final and then flops in the league as well, then sure, go wild.
Levy may as well have kept Juande Ramos at the time then. League form and CL qualification is still the barometer for job performance for a Spurs manager. In fact by hiring Mou I applauded Levy for showing the balls to say no longer is that enough, it's CL qualification AND trophies. But no CL qualification and a single domestic trophy* shouldn't be enough to keep his job and won't be enough to keep the supporters off his back.
 

moomba

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The league cup is not to be laughed at normally. But when you get a forfeit along the way I think it's only fair ours has an * next to it had we beaten you guys in the final. Still would be a fun football game to win but it solves nothing and always has that * next to it
A * only means anything to teams that dont have a *
 

jd2010

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A * only means anything to teams that dont have a *
I hardly think any non-Spurs fan will remember the 2021 league cup final in 2+ years time if we were to win to care about how we got it. Spurs fans will be the ones to remember it and its *
 

moomba

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People have put an * next to every one of our trophies over the past decade and I dont know a blue that gives a fu**. Each of them comes with amazing memories and days out that no * can erase.

If we win the cup this year and people want to put an * next to it I couldnt care less.
 

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jd2010

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People have put an * next to every one of our trophies over the past decade and I dont know a blue that gives a fu**. Each of them comes with amazing memories and days out that no * can erase.

If we win the cup this year and people want to put an * next to it I couldnt care less.
Think you've missed the point on why Spurs winning it would have an * next to it, we got given a forfeit in an early round when our squad was playing games every 2-3 days. No suggestion that a City win would be considered in the same way.
 

jd2010

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Tim captained every team he played for. I think it is unfair to call him not a people person.
True. I think its more generational that he doesn't resonate well with the modern day footballer, could see his persona and style working well in a dressing room in the 90s early 2000s. But he alienates and talks down as good as a Mourinho and with footballers nowadays it doesn't seem to work
 

moomba

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Think you've missed the point on why Spurs winning it would have an * next to it, we got given a forfeit in an early round when our squad was playing games every 2-3 days. No suggestion that a City win would be considered in the same way.
A trophy is a trophy. If you win it, you'll win it according to the rules of the competition.

Sure you had a walkover, but youre in the final on merit.
 

jd2010

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A trophy is a trophy. If you win it, you'll win it according to the rules of the competition.

Sure you had a walkover, but youre in the final on merit.
Like I said, it will be great to win it. But from memory we'll be the first team to win it entering from the 4th round / round of 16 which
 

RossFC

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Think you've missed the point on why Spurs winning it would have an * next to it, we got given a forfeit in an early round when our squad was playing games every 2-3 days. No suggestion that a City win would be considered in the same way.
So if you win, you put the trophy in the cabinet, and some Arsenal fans may or may not bring up the bye round during the journey to try to annoy you.
 

Art Vandelay_

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This seems such a weird thing to worry over when it comes to winning a trophy.
Sounds to me like if they play down the comp, and how we got there they can whack Mourinho for it even if we win, whack him if we lose, and simultaneously play down oppo banter by claiming it’s worthless to win.

In actual fact it’s kinda something we need to win, you don’t earn the right to be picky after decades of limited success. Just the most bizarre mental gymnastics.
 

jd2010

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So if you win, you put the trophy in the cabinet, and some Arsenal fans may or may not bring up the bye round during the journey to try to annoy you.
I think internally you'd have to question it too. Not discounting the effort to win the 3 games we had to play but it would be the easiest path to a final in League Cup history.

Doesn't mean you tank it and don't want to win it. Just a trophy with an * next to it for being far easier than every other League Cup where PL sides with European football enter with 32 teams left in the 3rd round.

People want to get hung up or draw B&W conclusions that putting an * next to it means we don't care if we win it or not and that's just stupid. We want to win the trophy. But we got a forfeit along the way which will always be there on how we qualified for the 4th round.
 

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