EPL Matchday 29

(Log in to remove this ad.)

Zidane98

Hall of Famer
Joined
Dec 22, 2009
Posts
34,991
Likes
14,374
Location
South End, AAMI Park
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Other Teams
Socceroos, Liverpool, Victory
Mustafi is there because Kane is there. How often do you see defenders criticised for losing their man on a set piece.

The fact that Kane was there caused probably two or three defenders into the positions they were in.
Kane is allowed to be in that position. After all another onside player may end up heading it back to him for a goal (no offside offence).

If he plays the ball first and is then fouled = offside.

If he gets fouled prior to playing the ball = penalty.
 

moomba

TheBrownDog
Joined
Oct 3, 2001
Posts
52,538
Likes
15,818
Location
Timperley
AFL Club
North Melbourne
Other Teams
Man City
Kane is allowed to be in that position. After all another onside player may end up heading it back to him for a goal (no offside offence).

If he plays the ball first and is then fouled = offside.

If he gets fouled prior to playing the ball = penalty.
He's offside as soon as the ball is kicked. He's moving towards the ball in an attempt to play the ball. He is impacting on the defenders. It's offside.

Personally think that it shouldn't matter whether you're moving towards or attempting to play the ball on a set piece. You have to be gaining an adbatnage, and imo unfairly. But that wasn't the case here.

How many times to we see a ball punted long and an attacker blown up for offside as soon as he starts to run towards the ball. This was the interpretation publicised a couple of years ago. I can't remember a time when you actually had to play the ball before being called offside.
 
Last edited:

Zidane98

Hall of Famer
Joined
Dec 22, 2009
Posts
34,991
Likes
14,374
Location
South End, AAMI Park
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Other Teams
Socceroos, Liverpool, Victory
He's offside as soon as the ball is kicked. He's moving towards the ball in an attempt to play the ball. He is impacting on the defenders. It's offside.

Personally think that it shouldn't matter whether you're moving towards or attempting to play the ball on a set piece. You have to be gaining an adbatnage, and imo unfairly. But that wasn't the case here.

How many times to we see a ball punted long and an attacker blown up for offside as soon as he starts to run towards the ball. This was the interpretation publicised a couple of years ago. I can't remember a time when you actually had to play the ball before being called offside.
He is not offside as soon as the ball is kicked. If the ball is kicked and another onside player then heads it back for him to score the goal stands. Most of the time now linesman wait until the ball is played before flagging. That's how they are now trained. The Ifab rule actually specifically states when a player is fouled before he plays the ball a foul is awarded. Not sure how much clearer that can be.
 

moomba

TheBrownDog
Joined
Oct 3, 2001
Posts
52,538
Likes
15,818
Location
Timperley
AFL Club
North Melbourne
Other Teams
Man City
He is not offside as soon as the ball is kicked. If the ball is kicked and another onside player then heads it back for him to score the goal stands. Most of the time now linesman wait until the ball is played before flagging. That's how they are now trained. The Ifab rule actually specifically states when a player is fouled before he plays the ball a foul is awarded. Not sure how much clearer that can be.
I hope Everton score an "offside" winner today, just to see the mental acrobatics.

If he's moving towards the ball, attempting to play the ball, or influencing the actions of an opponent and someone heads it on for him to score he's still offside.
 

imadodgyumpire

Brownlow Medallist
Joined
Aug 10, 2011
Posts
17,403
Likes
12,551
AFL Club
Carlton
I watched the game last night and thought the Kane penalty was a howler. But having read the rule, I get it and it makes sense to me. I suspect if the rule isn't is how it's written, it leaves the defender the opportunity to really hack into the possible ball player.
 

Zidane98

Hall of Famer
Joined
Dec 22, 2009
Posts
34,991
Likes
14,374
Location
South End, AAMI Park
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Other Teams
Socceroos, Liverpool, Victory
I hope Everton score an "offside" winner today, just to see the mental acrobatics.

If he's moving towards the ball, attempting to play the ball, or influencing the actions of an opponent and someone heads it on for him to score he's still offside.
Absolutely not offside in the case of another onside player heading the ball back to a player who was in an offside position when the initial free kick was played. That's a whole new phase of play and the exact reason why fouls are penalised before offside under the laws of the game.
 

imadodgyumpire

Brownlow Medallist
Joined
Aug 10, 2011
Posts
17,403
Likes
12,551
AFL Club
Carlton
I'm in disbelief how piss weak Aubameyang's penalty attempt was?


Typically merseyside derbies are a minimum 4pts for Liverpool throughout the season. But this season the points are more valuable than normal. I wonder if it's a rare case of squeaky bum time for Liverpool in a Merseyside derby?
 

moomba

TheBrownDog
Joined
Oct 3, 2001
Posts
52,538
Likes
15,818
Location
Timperley
AFL Club
North Melbourne
Other Teams
Man City
Absolutely not offside in the case of another onside player heading the ball back to a player who was in an offside position when the initial free kick was played. That's a whole new phase of play and the exact reason why fouls are penalised before offside under the laws of the game.
It's offside if he's active. It's not if he isn't.

Just like if Kane was fouled yesterday when he wasn't active it would have been a fair decision.
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

Zidane98

Hall of Famer
Joined
Dec 22, 2009
Posts
34,991
Likes
14,374
Location
South End, AAMI Park
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Other Teams
Socceroos, Liverpool, Victory
It's offside if he's active. It's not if he isn't.

Just like if Kane was fouled yesterday
Incorrect. Highlighted for your benefit below from Law 11: Offside
  • a player in an offside position is moving towards the ball with the intention of playing the ball and is fouled before playing or attempting to play the ball, or challenging an opponent for the ball, the foul is penalised as it has occurred before the offside offence


It was the correct decision, Kane was moving towards the ball with the intention of playing it but was fouled prior to doing so. Exactly the scenario in law 11 which stipulates the foul is penalised.


The penalty call against Schalke was 100% correct for this very reason also.
 

Zidane98

Hall of Famer
Joined
Dec 22, 2009
Posts
34,991
Likes
14,374
Location
South End, AAMI Park
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Other Teams
Socceroos, Liverpool, Victory
I'm in disbelief how piss weak Aubameyang's penalty attempt was?


Typically merseyside derbies are a minimum 4pts for Liverpool throughout the season. But this season the points are more valuable than normal. I wonder if it's a rare case of squeaky bum time for Liverpool in a Merseyside derby?
Yes, Auba didn't seem too confident in his run up. Penalties are a simple business, pick a corner and hit it hard. None of this piss farting about you see these days.
 

carnthemlions

Norm Smith Medallist
Joined
Apr 19, 2012
Posts
9,891
Likes
10,076
AFL Club
Brisbane Lions
Other Teams
San Francisco 49ers, Hertha Berlin
I also enjoy writing many posts about why relatively straightforward and easy to understand rules are very complicated and only I am able to interpret them correctly. This is a very normal thing to spend time on.
 

Donnie Darko

Premiership Player
Joined
Apr 6, 2004
Posts
4,407
Likes
2,180
AFL Club
Melbourne
Cabellero loses his spot after keeping a clean sheet and playing well. He would rightfully think he had done enough to keep his place..
but he is instantly dropped next game for the keeper who refused to be subbed.
I had some sympathy for Sarri , but not now. Dude has clown man management skills.
 

ossie_21

Norm Smith Medallist
Joined
May 28, 2010
Posts
8,884
Likes
9,831
Location
Perth
AFL Club
Western Bulldogs
Other Teams
Everton
Cabellero loses his spot after keeping a clean sheet and playing well. He would rightfully think he had done enough to keep his place..
but he is instantly dropped next game for the keeper who refused to be subbed.
I had some sympathy for Sarri , but not now. Dude has clown man management skills.
I understand the making a stand call by dropping him, but it means he stays dropped until he outperforms the keeper given a starting role. Willy should have stayed in the starting 11 until he had a bad game or made a big mistake
 

moomba

TheBrownDog
Joined
Oct 3, 2001
Posts
52,538
Likes
15,818
Location
Timperley
AFL Club
North Melbourne
Other Teams
Man City
It's not that hard to understand moomba. Just let it go.

Sent from my SM-G955F using Tapatalk
I'll make my own mind up when I'll discuss things and when I won't.

If it's not hard to understand, and that is now to be considered onside (despite the IFAB guidelines making it fairly obvious to me that it's not) then the way the game has been reffed for years will now change

I suspect also we'll start seeing clubs set up screens in offside positions to stop defenders challenging.
 

DBAH0

Norm Smith Medallist
Joined
Oct 5, 2004
Posts
7,781
Likes
1,339
Location
Austin, Texas
AFL Club
Geelong
Other Teams
At least I'm not Bobby Madley
Fulham have been better this game, just so frail defensively still though, Nordveit and Ream with Odoi as a right back just isn't a credible defense at the Premier League level.
 

Shoei

Norm Smith Medallist
Joined
Sep 26, 2011
Posts
8,378
Likes
6,530
Location
Perth
AFL Club
West Coast
Other Teams
Arsenal
Utterly incorrect. Law 11 specifically states that the foul is penalised because there is no offside offence until the ball is played.

http://www.theifab.com/laws/offside/chapters/offside-offence

  • a player in an offside position is moving towards the ball with the intention of playing the ball and is fouled before playing or attempting to play the ball, or challenging an opponent for the ball, the foul is penalised as it has occurred before the offside offence

Your claim that a player cannot be fouled in an offside position is blatantly incorrect. They aren't offside until they have played the ball and there is a good reason for this particular rule eg a long ball is played into the box, player a in an offside position doesn't play the ball while player b does, heads it down to player a who then scores. It would be completely unfair if a defender was allowed to take out player a in that scenario because they were in an offside position.


You also go on to say that there would be a foul and a red card awarded if a violent conduct incident occurred. You should also be aware if you are a referee that all violent conducts are penalised with a foul in the location where they occur if the ball is in play. So there absolutely would be a penalty awarded in the scenario you described. There would be no penalty awarded if the violent conduct occurred before the set piece was taken.


Further to this discussion the exact same scenario occurred in the champions league tie between Schalke and Man City. After VAR referral a penalty was correctly awarded because the offside attacker was fouled before he played the ball. See link for further clarificaiton

https://www.uefa.com/insideuefa/about-uefa/news/newsid=2593061.html

You might want to do a refresher course on refereeing btw with your claim that a defender can do what they want to an opponent in an offside position and not be penalised for it. Simply not true.
http://www.espn.com.au/football/eng...ffside-before-winning-penalty-against-arsenal

If professional referees and both the The Professional Game Match Officials Limited (PGMOL) and Premier League Match Centre for Media are saying it should have been offside then it's not utterly incorrect.

Its a grey area that needs to be properly clarified.
 

DBAH0

Norm Smith Medallist
Joined
Oct 5, 2004
Posts
7,781
Likes
1,339
Location
Austin, Texas
AFL Club
Geelong
Other Teams
At least I'm not Bobby Madley
Sessegnon just offside at the end there.

Crucial win for Chelsea that, reckon Fulham deserved a point though for that 2nd half performance.
 

ossie_21

Norm Smith Medallist
Joined
May 28, 2010
Posts
8,884
Likes
9,831
Location
Perth
AFL Club
Western Bulldogs
Other Teams
Everton
http://www.espn.com.au/football/eng...ffside-before-winning-penalty-against-arsenal

If professional referees and both the The Professional Game Match Officials Limited (PGMOL) and Premier League Match Centre for Media are saying it should have been offside then it's not utterly incorrect.

Its a grey area that needs to be properly clarified.
All this talk about offside or not, pretty sure the only reason there was no flag is that the assistant just didn’t see it. Can hardly blame him as there was about 15 bodies between the linesman & where Kane was
 
Top Bottom