Premier Lg EPL Matchday 8 - On Optus Sport

[SM]

Yeah I remember in our first game back in the Prem Pool were awarded a penalty when the ball deflected off Koch’s thigh (not to be confused with Koch off the thigh …boom-tish!) into his arm which was just away from his body. Wondered then why it was awarded as it was kicked quite close to Koch.

Your first game back in the prem was before the rule was changed.

 

[Frank Bunn]

Do you understand what 'makes no difference' means? The ball changed direction. So the deflection made a difference.

The deflection makes no difference to the decision.

Is it a handball if the ball deflects off a player's body?​

​

In the current reading of the rule, yes, a handball is penalised regardless of deflection off another player's or the same player's body. However, some leagues have varying interpretations of the rule, and some are more strict about this than others.​

​

According to the new Premier League guidelines which were released ahead of the 2020/21 season, deflections are not taken into account when determining if a handball offence has been committed.​

Handball rules in football explained, including latest changes by FIFA, UEFA to hand ball in soccer | Sporting News Australia

It is well-established that using your arms or hands is not allowed in football. Yet changes to the rules have made it difficult to comprehend for players, coaches, fans and even officials themselves.

www.sportingnews.com

 

[SM]

The deflection makes no difference to the decision.

Is it a handball if the ball deflects off a player's body?​

​

In the current reading of the rule, yes, a handball is penalised regardless of deflection off another player's or the same player's body. However, some leagues have varying interpretations of the rule, and some are more strict about this than others.​

​

According to the new Premier League guidelines which were released ahead of the 2020/21 season, deflections are not taken into account when determining if a handball offence has been committed.​

Handball rules in football explained, including latest changes by FIFA, UEFA to hand ball in soccer | Sporting News Australia

It is well-established that using your arms or hands is not allowed in football. Yet changes to the rules have made it difficult to comprehend for players, coaches, fans and even officials themselves.

www.sportingnews.com

So that's different to the link you first provided. Is this link more accurate? 2020/21 is a while ago now, the laws have changed since then.

 

[Frank Bunn]

The article is dated 26-09-2023. It's consistent with the earlier BBC article.

 

[Cruyff14]

Massive win. Nice to break the curse against City. Build up to our goal was wonderful. And how is Kovacic not sent off?

 

[Stokey]

I was in Clissold Park keeping track of the scores while my daughter skateboarded. My phone died just before Martinelli scored. I didn't need my phone to know Arsenal had scored. The noise, even from that far away, was massive.

 

[go you pups]

Just watching Review

Arsenal lucky, don't think that was a foul where City scored when the whistle was blown, Arsenal defender taking out his team mate it looked like to me, that being said they got their late winner

Brentford should've put Man Utd away, 3 dropped points, huge from McTominay

We should've put Luton away early, had to make hard work of it, eh take the 3 points and forget about it

 

[glenferry23]

 

[moomba]

Just watching Review

Arsenal lucky, don't think that was a foul where City scored when the whistle was blown, Arsenal defender taking out his team mate it looked like to me, that being said they got their late winner

Brentford should've put Man Utd away, 3 dropped points, huge from McTominay

We should've put Luton away early, had to make hard work of it, eh take the 3 points and forget about it

Even if advantage was played, the ball touched Lewis' hand before he scored so it would have been ruled out anyway.

 

[moomba]

City live an incredibly charmed life. How Kovacic wasnt sent off is anyones guess.

Good to see them lose again though. Still more worried about them than Arsenal.

We copped a very similar decision last week. The player involved ended up scoring the winner.

Charmed life indeed.

 

[jd2010]

How was this not referred to VAR? It bounced up off Van Dijk's knee but according to the current rules that doesn't matter.

View attachment 1825918

I take back my Klopp criticism

Genius at work. Week 1 of 30 of incredible square ups!

 

[Bradesmaen]

Gross pulled him down = penalty EVERY SINGLE TIME.

Are you seriously proposing that referees should adjudicate if a player was likely to score or not when awarding a penalty? How likely do they need to be? 80%? 90%?

No? Not what I said at all but thanks for playing a game of can you read

 

[SC_Power]

The deflection makes no difference to the decision.

Is it a handball if the ball deflects off a player's body?​

​

In the current reading of the rule, yes, a handball is penalised regardless of deflection off another player's or the same player's body. However, some leagues have varying interpretations of the rule, and some are more strict about this than others.​

​

According to the new Premier League guidelines which were released ahead of the 2020/21 season, deflections are not taken into account when determining if a handball offence has been committed.​

Handball rules in football explained, including latest changes by FIFA, UEFA to hand ball in soccer | Sporting News Australia

It is well-established that using your arms or hands is not allowed in football. Yet changes to the rules have made it difficult to comprehend for players, coaches, fans and even officials themselves.

www.sportingnews.com

The article looks to be incorrect when inferring that deflection of the same players body is a handball.

It states there is only one major exception, however the Premier League guidelines that are referenced in that same article read


So 2 (not 1) exceptions listed

• deflection off a players own head or body
• if a player is falling and puts their arm down to support the fall

Looks to me that the first exception was in play here. Think this was brought in post the Liverpool Tottenham UCL final.

Note that at the time, I wouldn’t have argued a great deal if that had been given a spot kick, but the guidelines suggest otherwise.

 

[Frank Bunn]

The article looks to be incorrect when inferring that deflection of the same players body is a handball.

It states there is only one major exception, however the Premier League guidelines that are referenced in that same article read
View attachment 1826583

So 2 (not 1) exceptions listed

• deflection off a players own head or body
• if a player is falling and puts their arm down to support the fall

Looks to me that the first exception was in play here. Think this was brought in post the Liverpool Tottenham UCL final.

Note that at the time, I wouldn’t have argued a great deal if that had been given a spot kick, but the guidelines suggest otherwise.

It seems that there's a discrepancy between PL and UEFA rules on handballs. UEFA is saying handball should not be called on a player if the ball is deflected from his own body. PL is saying if the arm is extended away from the body it doesn't matter if there was a close deflection.

It would be good to get an explanation from PGMOL.

 

[go you pups]

The article looks to be incorrect when inferring that deflection of the same players body is a handball.

It states there is only one major exception, however the Premier League guidelines that are referenced in that same article read
View attachment 1826583

So 2 (not 1) exceptions listed

• deflection off a players own head or body
• if a player is falling and puts their arm down to support the fall

Looks to me that the first exception was in play here. Think this was brought in post the Liverpool Tottenham UCL final.

Note that at the time, I wouldn’t have argued a great deal if that had been given a spot kick, but the guidelines suggest otherwise.

I remember Alaba got done in the CL like 10 or so years ago against Real Madrid I think when he was at Bayern, he was lunging in to save a cross that was very close to him, put the arm out for support, nothing intentional, penalty

 

[Bradesmaen]

I remember Alaba got done in the CL like 10 or so years ago against Real Madrid I think when he was at Bayern, he was lunging in to save a cross that was very close to him, put the arm out for support, nothing intentional, penalty

Pretty sure someone in the Europa League/Conference league got done last season when he stumbled and in the process of falling over the ball hit his leg and then onto his arm.

 

[ADL9798]

 

[Sozabarus]

But De Zerbi was annoyed at the penalty call and there is no law about it not being a penalty after a deflection so the community note is wrong. I saw Liverpool fans were annoyed at this on twitter but I don’t see what Sky Sports have done wrong here tbh.
Yes there is more context to it but it’s not like that image is doctored.

 

[Frank Bunn]

But De Zerbi was annoyed at the penalty call and there is no law about it not being a penalty after a deflection so the community note is wrong. I saw Liverpool fans were annoyed at this on twitter but I don’t see what Sky Sports have done wrong here tbh.
Yes there is more context to it but it’s not like that image is doctored.

Sky Sports and De Zerbi got it right. The officials and twitterati got it wrong. The laws do not allow for a deflection onto an outstretched arm to be a reason not to give a penalty.

Handling the ball

It is an offence if a player:​

​

• touches the ball with their hand/arm when it has made their body unnaturally bigger. A player is considered to have made their body unnaturally bigger when the position of their hand/arm is not a consequence of, or justifiable by, the player’s body movement for that specific situation. By having their hand/arm in such a position, the player takes a risk of their hand/arm being hit by the ball and being penalised​

 

[Sozabarus]

Sky Sports and De Zerbi got it right. The officials and twitterati got it wrong. The laws do not allow for a deflection onto an outstretched arm to be a reason not to give a penalty.

Handling the ball

It is an offence if a player:​

​

• touches the ball with their hand/arm when it has made their body unnaturally bigger. A player is considered to have made their body unnaturally bigger when the position of their hand/arm is not a consequence of, or justifiable by, the player’s body movement for that specific situation. By having their hand/arm in such a position, the player takes a risk of their hand/arm being hit by the ball and being penalised​

De Zerbi didn’t get it right because the decision was correct, but the reason it was correct isn’t due to there being a law about deflections.

The VAR Review: Should Kovacic and Groß have seen red? Another big blunder is avoided ... just

Should Manchester City midfielder Mateo Kovacic have been sent off at Arsenal? And how another huge VAR error almost happened on a Chelsea goal.

www.espn.com

 

[Frank Bunn]

De Zerbi didn’t get it right because the decision was correct, but the reason it was correct isn’t due to there being a law about deflections.

The VAR Review: Should Kovacic and Groß have seen red? Another big blunder is avoided ... just

Should Manchester City midfielder Mateo Kovacic have been sent off at Arsenal? And how another huge VAR error almost happened on a Chelsea goal.

www.espn.com

There's agreement that there's no law about deflection but I don't agree with the ESPN pundits. Van Dijk made his body unnaturally bigger by the position of his arm. As the law states, by having his arm in such a position, he took the risk of his arm being hit by the ball and being penalised.

 

[Sozabarus]

There's agreement that there's no law about deflection but I don't agree with the ESPN pundits. Van Dijk made his body unnaturally bigger by the position of his arm. As the law states, by having his arm in such a position, he took the risk of his arm being hit by the ball and being penalised.

That is where a still doesn’t show the context as there was nothing unnatural about it.

 

[Frank Bunn]

That is where a still doesn’t show the context as there was nothing unnatural about it.

When the arm is extended like that they only deem it to be in a natural position when the player has gone to ground for a tackle or block.

 

[Bradesmaen]

That's done by Liverpool fans, it's community added these days on twitter... thanks Elon.

 

[And_ROOS]

Didn't someone make a post earlier that it should be a pen based on English FA laws because it doesn't matter that it came off the body it hit the hand in an unnatural position Vs European comp rules that say coming off the body onto the hand isn't a foul?