Recommitted Eric Mackenzie

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ziad said:
Need to be accurate. Tall defenders is WC's strength.

But he did a knee and is recovering so future form is unknown
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Barrass and McGovern are very good at being 3rd man and intercept marking, not so good against the big key forwards. Though both are still fairly young (Barrass very young so has a lot of potential).

McKenzie and Schofield both seem to miss a fair bit of football.
 
bitadash said:
Reality is he is an All-Australian, Fairest and Best, Key position defender who is 28 not 32, and hasnt played in 2 years and just needs a full preseason..
From my understanding you picked up Brian Lake at 30!! for a 2nd round upgrade and 41.
Knee's have hardly been career enders lately, i see nothing that diminishes his value below a 2nd rounder up to late first if a clubs desperate...
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Brian Lake despite being 30 was still playing AFL football. Hawthorn essentially moved from pick 21 to 27 and lost pick 41 in the exchange. He also went to the hawks on 250k. Players that spend the majority of a season in the magoos and who have barely been cited on free-to-air television hardly have much trade value. You should almost be happy getting the 600k of your books and use it to get a Lobb back home...

But yes, your logic for 'maybe' a first rounder is very sound...
 
bitadash said:
Joel Patful-pick 21
Levi Greenwood-pick 25
Shaun Hampson-pick 32
Jake Melksham-pick 25
Jack Redden-pick 17

Do any one of them have a better resume than Mackenzie?
Any of your own clubs/players and this same argument would be coming from you..
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They all played AFL in the two seasons prior to their trade? Is that the answer? What do I win?
 

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bitadash said:
Joel Patful-pick 21
Levi Greenwood-pick 25
Shaun Hampson-pick 32
Jake Melksham-pick 25
Jack Redden-pick 17

Do any one of them have a better resume than Mackenzie?
Any of your own clubs/players and this same argument would be coming from you..
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So mentioning other dud trades where clubs overpaid is showing that someone will do the same here?

Post injury he was spud like when he played AFL this year, and average at best in the WAFL. It's not 2014 anymore, a late first round now is delusional.
 
One wonders why Hawthorn are so keen on a guy with a dodgy knee that hasn't played at all for two years if Mackenzie who had a poor season (but actually played) has such little value...

Anyway Mackenzie is contracted and Brown is probably going. Unless we're offloading him to create cap space in a deal to land Hogan or some other star/potential star then it makes no sense to let him go cheaply.
 
Good to see threads like this never go out of style. Supporters of club x want a particular player in the trade period, presumably because they want that player and think he'd add something to their side. Then spend time arguing all the reasons he's worth bugger all.
 
Scotland said:
One wonders why Hawthorn are so keen on a guy with a dodgy knee that hasn't played at all for two years if Mackenzie who had a poor season (but actually played) has such little value...

Anyway Mackenzie is contracted and Brown is probably going. Unless we're offloading him to create cap space in a deal to land Hogan or some other star/potential star then it makes no sense to let him go cheaply.
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BK Eaglesfan said:
Good to see threads like this never go out of style. Supporters of club x want a particular player in the trade period, presumably because they want that player and think he'd add something to their side. Then spend time arguing all the reasons he's worth bugger all.
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So if I wanted lets say Josh Hill by your logic I should suggest Hawthorn trade you our first round pick, maybe even next years also?

Do I think Mackenzie would add value to Hawthorn? Yes, it's an area lacking in depth. Have I specifically laid claim that Mackenzie is a dud/spud/has been? No. The question is what value he holds, it's the only question you need to consider. By my reasoning, as I have bored you all with, I would suggest his value is somewhere around pick 38-45. Would I like Hawthorn to bring him in on such a pick? Yes. Would I like Hawthorn, and apologies for using your considered logic, to part with our first round pick for Mackenzie? No. It would hardly be paying market value now would it. I don't make a habit of paying double the price necessary for a Friday night beer...

Anyhow, if Mackenzie is worth considerable more in your opinion perhaps you could clearly explain how you have reached such a decision?
 
Josh Hill is a half forward/forward pocket whose best return in 5 seasons with us is 10th place in the B&F. He was traded for pick 49 at 22, I doubt he'd be worth any more at 27. There's probably already someone on Hawthorn's list who could come in and add as much value as Hill, just like Sicily did this year.

Eric Mackenzie is a key defender who made the AA squad two years ago. I'll admit I don't watch Box Hill so I don't know what their key defensive stocks are like but I'd imagine they don't have a ready made AFL-standard key defender waiting in the wings. That's why Mackenzie has value, although it's not Hawthorn's pick 14.
 
bitadash said:
Joel Patful-pick 21
Levi Greenwood-pick 25
Shaun Hampson-pick 32
Jake Melksham-pick 25
Jack Redden-pick 17

Do any one of them have a better resume than Mackenzie?
Any of your own clubs/players and this same argument would be coming from you..
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If McKenzie was worth a 1st rounder, Eagles wouldn't have had him in the WAFL half the year. Reality is that clubs tend to have short term memories & wont trade based on a guy maybe getting back to his best.

Could he get back to AA? Maybe.
Will clubs offer a 1st rounder based on a maybe for a guy in his late 20s? No.
 
Scotland said:
Josh Hill is a half forward/forward pocket whose best return in 5 seasons with us is 10th place in the B&F. He was traded for pick 49 at 22, I doubt he'd be worth any more at 27. There's probably already someone on Hawthorn's list who could come in and add as much value as Hill, just like Sicily did this year.

Eric Mackenzie is a key defender who made the AA squad two years ago. I'll admit I don't watch Box Hill so I don't know what their key defensive stocks are like but I'd imagine they don't have a ready made AFL-standard key defender waiting in the wings. That's why Mackenzie has value, although it's not Hawthorn's pick 14.
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Regarding Josh Hill your entirely correct. However, using BKEaglesfan's logic if a club wanted to bring Josh Hill to their club they would have to give up a first-round pick. Ie. Interpreting BK, simple wanting a player means you must pay overs despite there market value...

Scotland, what pick would you suggest is market value? Ps.. AA was three seasons ago, he hasn't really played the past two ;)
 
Scotland said:
Risk is a two way street.

Why would we accept a speculative pick in return for Mackenzie when we don't have to?
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Well I guess your right. Why bother with a speculative 18-19 year old in the picked 38 - 46 (hello luke parker, easton wood and caleb daniel) when you can keep a bloke on 600k to play WAFL. Does ABC cover the WAFL?

Pretty good strategy but, you should put it to your list manager. After all, the draft is an unnecessary risk.
 

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OnceKicked50 said:
Well I guess your right. Why bother with a speculative 18-19 year old in the picked 38 - 46 (hello luke parker, easton wood and caleb daniel) when you can keep a bloke on 600k to play WAFL.
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Dean Cox was a rookie listed player. Can we trade Mackenzie for a rookie draft pick? After all if probability isn't a factor...
 
Scotland said:
Dean Cox was a rookie listed player. Can we trade Mackenzie for a rookie draft pick? After all if probability isn't a factor...
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Probably still a win, 600k lighter and perhaps you go all in on Lobb as a result...

Little perspective lads, Cloke will get to the Bulldogs for a third round pick...
 
OnceKicked50 said:
Well I guess your right. Why bother with a speculative 18-19 year old in the picked 38 - 46 (hello luke parker, easton wood and caleb daniel) when you can keep a bloke on 600k to play WAFL. Does ABC cover the WAFL?

Pretty good strategy but, you should put it to your list manager. After all, the draft is an unnecessary risk.
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38-46 is getting too late though, I'd want something around 25-35 otherwise they might as well just keep him and hope he comes good next year.
 
OnceKicked50 said:
Probably still a win, 600k lighter and perhaps you go all in on Lobb as a result...

Little perspective lads, Cloke will get to the Bulldogs for a third round pick...
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Cloke isn't wanted by the Pies either, that also make a difference.
 
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