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Recommitted Eric Mackenzie

  • Thread starter Thread starter Wce17
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kane249 said:
Cloke isn't wanted by the Pies either, that also make a difference.
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So hand on heart, you genuinely believe Mackenzie's trade value is higher then Cloke?

Reality is Eagles would probably even take a third rounder just to move Mackenzie and his contract. Mackenzie is definitely available...
 
Scalped Eagle said:
I love happy go lucky who ignore facts fun guy.
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Oh sorry perhaps your serious. Let me get this straight. Your point is because Eric Mackenzie won a B&F three years ago he holds greater value then Travis Cloke? Mackenzie must have had a pretty good past couple of years then...
 
OnceKicked50 said:
So hand on heart, you genuinely believe Mackenzie's trade value is higher then Cloke?

Reality is Eagles would probably even take a third rounder just to move Mackenzie and his contract. Mackenzie is definitely available...
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Yes that is the reality if you haven't paid attention to anything else that's been said so far.

But you also think 3 is bigger than 3.2 so you seem to struggle with a few things.
 

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OnceKicked50 said:
Oh sorry perhaps your serious. Let me get this straight. Your point is because Eric Mackenzie won a B&F three years ago he holds greater value then Travis Cloke? Mackenzie must have had a pretty good past couple of years then...
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Fallen blue chips are worth more than stock that was never was
 
OnceKicked50 said:
You must place great stock in the WAFL Kane... But gee what a year he had in 2014!
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Time to put you on the ignore list where you belong, farewell.
 
Shmiddy15 said:
Just out of interest, are you also expecting to pay pick 50 odd for omeara? I mean he hasn't been seen much on free to air telly in the last 2 years either.
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I would probably factor in certain things like age, other teams interest (after all Essendon were willing to give pick 1) and the fact the only reason he wasn't playing was because of injury and not because he wasn't considered a best 22 player. Hawks will give plenty for him and its a gamble with the injury concerns but the medical team has been pretty good at Hawthorn. Generally speaking the Hawthorn list managers don't miss and trade in a Redden or Jetta for example...

Any player that costs 600k, will be 29 at the start of the season and was outside a teams best 22 in 2016 will not have great value.
 
OnceKicked50 said:
I would probably factor in certain things like age, other teams interest (after all Essendon were willing to give pick 1) and the fact the only reason he wasn't playing was because of injury and not because he wasn't considered a best 22 player. Hawks will give plenty for him and its a gamble with the injury concerns but the medical team has been pretty good at Hawthorn. Generally speaking the Hawthorn list managers don't miss and trade in a Redden or Jetta for example...

Any player that costs 600k, will be 29 at the start of the season and was outside a teams best 22 in 2016 will not have great value.
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You're underselling Mckenzie's importance to us. While he might not ever get back to his 2013-14 best, he still has the prospect of becoming a good player for us, in an area in which we would have literally 0 depth outside our best 22 should he leave (assuming mitch brown leaves as a free agent, which is looking more than likely with his wife having signed with the collingwood netball team).

He's also a member of our leadership group. While I agree that it's not great value having a 600K player in the WAFL, I doubt he'd be in the 2s much next year, as with more confidence and another preseason into his body he'd either force Schofield out of the side or allow McGovern to move forward.

The other gaping hole in your suggestion is that why on earth would Mckenzie want to move to Hawthorn, on what would be substantially less money, in order to be a depth player just like you say he is here? I'd imagine we'd have to take up the slack on the extra money that he would not be offered with you guys, and so it wouldn't help us free up cap space at all? It's just completely nonsensical, and the only party who would benefit from it would be the Hawks.
 
OnceKicked50 said:
Regarding Josh Hill your entirely correct. However, using BKEaglesfan's logic if a club wanted to bring Josh Hill to their club they would have to give up a first-round pick. Ie. Interpreting BK, simple wanting a player means you must pay overs despite there market value...

Scotland, what pick would you suggest is market value? Ps.. AA was three seasons ago, he hasn't really played the past two ;)
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Just run me through anywhere in my post I have suggested a first round pick for Mackenzie? Or for that matter that even hinting at wanting a player means you have to pay overs.

By the same token, I'd be disappointed if the Eagles were involved in a trade that saw an All Australian 28 year old KPP coming off a knee injury and admittedly slow first year back leave the club along with a pick as a sweetener, to end up with a 29 year old forward pocket specialist who had a disappointing year himself and can't blame returning from a serious knee injury.
 
Shmiddy15 said:
You're underselling Mckenzie's importance to us. While he might not ever get back to his 2013-14 best, he still has the prospect of becoming a good player for us, in an area in which we would have literally 0 depth outside our best 22 should he leave (assuming mitch brown leaves as a free agent, which is looking more than likely with his wife having signed with the collingwood netball team).

He's also a member of our leadership group. While I agree that it's not great value having a 600K player in the WAFL, I doubt he'd be in the 2s much next year, as with more confidence and another preseason into his body he'd either force Schofield out of the side or allow McGovern to move forward.

The other gaping hole in your suggestion is that why on earth would Mckenzie want to move to Hawthorn, on what would be substantially less money, in order to be a depth player just like you say he is here? I'd imagine we'd have to take up the slack on the extra money that he would not be offered with you guys, and so it wouldn't help us free up cap space at all? It's just completely nonsensical, and the only party who would benefit from it would be the Hawks.
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This has by far been the most considered and measured response.

I don't see how I can be 'under selling' his importance. My logic is based on your very own coaching staff deeming him not in your best 22. I proposed a hypothetical trade suggesting where I see his value. Only one poster suggests he is around the pick 25 mark, mostly all other posts are pick 38 is delusional. I don't see that as correct. But I think it's a pretty valid point you make, perhaps he gets back into the best 22 and plays well, in 12 months time your happy and his value is back at maybe a late first rounder. Alternatively, he plays in the magoos and you get nothing for him in 12 months as he would be 30 and hardly seen in three years. That contract may also cost you a significant crack at oh lets say Jessie Hogan.

In regards to payment, at no point did I suggest West Coast would have to pay any of his salary. That would be the risk for Hawthorn of anyone that took a punt. I'm not even arguing Hawthorn could fit 600k in their cap. But he would certainly be a best 22 at the Hawks as aside from Frawley we have no other KPD with Brand certain to leave...
 

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BK Eaglesfan said:
Good to see threads like this never go out of style. Supporters of club x want a particular player in the trade period, presumably because they want that player and think he'd add something to their side. Then spend time arguing all the reasons he's worth bugger all.
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So by your synopsis, it seems if Supporter of (Hawthorn) wants (Eric Mackenzie) and argues he is worth bugger all (pick 38 -41) then you are suggesting what pick gets it done?

Simple wanting a player doesn't require paying overs. Not for blokes that according to the coaching staff aren't best 22.
 
Kram said:
So mentioning other dud trades where clubs overpaid is showing that someone will do the same here?

Post injury he was spud like when he played AFL this year, and average at best in the WAFL. It's not 2014 anymore, a late first round now is delusional.
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And yet he is much better than any key defender on freos books
 
OnceKicked50 said:
This has by far been the most considered and measured response.

I don't see how I can be 'under selling' his importance. My logic is based on your very own coaching staff deeming him not in your best 22. I proposed a hypothetical trade suggesting where I see his value. Only one poster suggests he is around the pick 25 mark, mostly all other posts are pick 38 is delusional. I don't see that as correct. But I think it's a pretty valid point you make, perhaps he gets back into the best 22 and plays well, in 12 months time your happy and his value is back at maybe a late first rounder. Alternatively, he plays in the magoos and you get nothing for him in 12 months as he would be 30 and hardly seen in three years. That contract may also cost you a significant crack at oh lets say Jessie Hogan.

In regards to payment, at no point did I suggest West Coast would have to pay any of his salary. That would be the risk for Hawthorn of anyone that took a punt. I'm not even arguing Hawthorn could fit 600k in their cap. But he would certainly be a best 22 at the Hawks as aside from Frawley we have no other KPD with Brand certain to leave...
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If he's a certain starter than I could definitely see it being a more appealing move for him, but personally I think we'd be remiss to let him go for a late pick when he's contracted. I think a pick around 25ish might not be fair value, but it's what it would take for us to consider moving him on. It's a similar principle to the redden deal we made last year. I feel like a first rounder for redden was definitely overs, but it's what we had to do in order to satisfy Brisbane.
 
OnceKicked50 said:
I would probably factor in certain things like age, other teams interest (after all Essendon were willing to give pick 1) and the fact the only reason he wasn't playing was because of injury and not because he wasn't considered a best 22 player. Hawks will give plenty for him and its a gamble with the injury concerns but the medical team has been pretty good at Hawthorn. Generally speaking the Hawthorn list managers don't miss and trade in a Redden or Jetta for example...

Any player that costs 600k, will be 29 at the start of the season and was outside a teams best 22 in 2016 will not have great value.
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And yet he is a much better defender than Frawley or Brand....

Nah, let's just make Tim Obrien a key defender... That will probably be your break glass option.

I think Mackenzie adds 4kg to his frame, plays full back alongside Barass and Schofield whilst McGovern moves forward to assist JJK and JD.

WC will likely miss out on Hogan, McCarthy and Lobb this year for varying reasons.
 
Kram said:
Maybe 2 years ago but he played like absolute poo for the whole of 2016.

I'm sure in your mind though he is still worth more than say Alex Pearce :)
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On ability and proven performance to date yes.

His confidence is shot but another preseason and some weights will assist him no end.

Alex is a really good young prospect but let's wait for the paint to dry on him first. Eric is worth more to us yes.
 

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swooshacummings said:
And yet he is a much better defender than Frawley or Brand....

Nah, let's just make Tim Obrien a key defender... That will probably be your break glass option.

I think Mackenzie adds 4kg to his frame, plays full back alongside Barass and Schofield whilst McGovern moves forward to assist JJK and JD.

WC will likely miss out on Hogan, McCarthy and Lobb this year for varying reasons.
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Umm Frawley is a premiership player, I believe he had a fair game that day to ;)

Oh and Frawley actually is a AA...
 
OnceKicked50 said:
Umm Frawley is a premiership player, I believe he had a fair game that day to ;)

Oh and Frawley actually is a AA...
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Frawley is a turnover merchant and is a poor mans Brian Lake.

When the likes of Gibson and Burgoyne move on you will get full disclosure on the defender you have.

AA in 2010 was it?

He played on a malnourished forward that day. Hardly a game winning performance
 
swooshacummings said:
Frawley is a turnover merchant and is a poor mans Brian Lake.

When the likes of Gibson and Burgoyne move on you will get full disclosure on the defender you have.

AA in 2010 was it?

He played on a malnourished forward that day. Hardly a game winning performance
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Correct. Only I'm still unable to confirm what year Mackenzie was sorry...

Good enough to be named in the best that day.

Good enough to hold his spot last season...
 
OnceKicked50 said:
Correct. Only I'm still unable to confirm what year Mackenzie was sorry...

Good enough to be named in the best that day.

Good enough to hold his spot last season...
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What can I say, WC are blessed with key defenders and he unfortunately was coming off an acl injury.

Hard for Frawley to not hold his spot with the likes of Brand and..... is there any other kpd you guys have?

Oh yeah Shitmakers and our crumbs Spangher
 
swooshacummings said:
What can I say, WC are blessed with key defenders and he unfortunately was coming off an acl injury.

Hard for Frawley to not hold his spot with the likes of Brand and..... is there any other kpd you guys have?

Oh yeah Shitmakers and our crumbs Spangher
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Premiership player Spangher that is....
 
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