Recommitted Eric Mackenzie

[OnceKicked50]

What can I say, WC are blessed with key defenders and he unfortunately was coming off an acl injury.

Hard for Frawley to not hold his spot with the likes of Brand and..... is there any other kpd you guys have?

Oh yeah Shitmakers and our crumbs Spangher

Even Shoemakers cou

Being a premiership player doesn't automatically discount your lack of leg speed and kicking ability.

No idea why you would assume he was a poor kick, Spangher was a very reliable kick. He had a fantastic year in 2014 and was a deserving premiership player. Your point still confuses me, are you talking about Matt Priddis? You see despite his lack of pace and foot skills I still think he has had a great career...

 

[swooshacummings]

Even Shoemakers cou


No idea why you would assume he was a poor kick, Spangher was a very reliable kick. He had a fantastic year in 2014 and was a deserving premiership player. Your point still confuses me, are you talking about Matt Priddis? You see despite his lack of pace and foot skills I still think he has had a great career...

Yes, take that argument up with Charlie..













Brownlow.

 

[BK Eaglesfan]

So by your synopsis, it seems if Supporter of (Hawthorn) wants (Eric Mackenzie) and argues he is worth bugger all (pick 38 -41) then you are suggesting what pick gets it done?

Simple wanting a player doesn't require paying overs. Not for blokes that according to the coaching staff aren't best 22.

So ignoring the fact all you've done is disagree with the same point (quoting the same post) for the second time in 12 hours, saying pretty much the same thing........

I've already outlined very clearly that what I don't believe is appropriate is your earlier suggestion of the three way swap involving Fremantle that sees the Eagles lose Mackenzie AND a pick and end up with Ballantyne in return.

Pick wise, last year we traded out a 28 year old who was well down the pecking order of midfielders at the club in Matt Rosa in exchange for Pick 31. Do I believe a 28 year old All Australian quality key defender who hasn't actually requested a trade and has a year left in his contract has more value than a 28 year old midfielder who did request a trade? Yes.

 

[OnceKicked50]

Yes, take that argument up with Charlie..













Brownlow.

Correct. Which is why I said he has had a great career despite according to your earlier post being slow and not an elite kick rendering a player crumbs...

 

[OnceKicked50]

So ignoring the fact all you've done is disagree with the same point (quoting the same post) for the second time in 12 hours, saying pretty much the same thing........

I've already outlined very clearly that what I don't believe is appropriate is your earlier suggestion of the three way swap involving Fremantle that sees the Eagles lose Mackenzie AND a pick and end up with Ballantyne in return.

Pick wise, last year we traded out a 28 year old who was well down the pecking order of midfielders at the club in Matt Rosa in exchange for Pick 31. Do I believe a 28 year old All Australian quality key defender who hasn't actually requested a trade and has a year left in his contract has more value than a 28 year old midfielder who did request a trade? Yes.

What does All-Australian quality defender mean? It seems pretty subjective, you see I could make that case about Chip Frawley. No wait, that's factual. Sorry I will try again, Alex Pearce. I could say he is an All-Australian quality defender...

This is not about if I think Mackenzie is a good player, I do. But if you think his trade value is as mentioned are you considering he would a), cost a club 600k. That is more then or equal to Rioli, Betts, Gunston, Shuey, Gaff, Parker, Josh Kennedy, Hannebery, Rampe, Steven, Viney and so on. And b), he is coming off a serious knee injury that robbed him of 2015, and in 2016 his form was below AFL standard...

Anyhow, go dogs!

 

[eastfreo75]

So ignoring the fact all you've done is disagree with the same point (quoting the same post) for the second time in 12 hours, saying pretty much the same thing........

I've already outlined very clearly that what I don't believe is appropriate is your earlier suggestion of the three way swap involving Fremantle that sees the Eagles lose Mackenzie AND a pick and end up with Ballantyne in return.

Pick wise, last year we traded out a 28 year old who was well down the pecking order of midfielders at the club in Matt Rosa in exchange for Pick 31. Do I believe a 28 year old All Australian quality key defender who hasn't actually requested a trade and has a year left in his contract has more value than a 28 year old midfielder who did request a trade? Yes.

29 yrs next year coming off an injury and playing WAFL equals a first round pick. By the way, he was an AA.

Each draft is different. Last year the draft was pretty weak and draft picks don't have the same value each year. Every draft, players are in clusters and therefore, pick 31 isn't the same each year.

 

[Yamumluvsbigcox]

If we are going to get nothing for mackenzie I would be happy to just keep him on our list .
salary cap is only an issue if we are chasing a big name which it doesn't look like .
ballantyne we don't need and if he wants to come to us he will need to take a pay cut

 

[BK Eaglesfan]

29 yrs next year coming off an injury and playing WAFL equals a first round pick. By the way, he was an AA.

Each draft is different. Last year the draft was pretty weak and draft picks don't have the same value each year. Every draft, players are in clusters and therefore, pick 31 isn't the same each year.

Again, who said 1st round pick?

There was a three way trade suggestion earlier in this thread, which I believe undervalues Mackenzie. There is a suggestion he is worth a pick in the high thirties to low forties. Again I believe this is low, but tell me where I have ever suggested first round.

 

[eastfreo75]

Again, who said 1st round pick?

There was a three way trade suggestion earlier in this thread, which I believe undervalues Mackenzie. There is a suggestion he is worth a pick in the high thirties to low forties. Again I believe this is low, but tell me where I have ever suggested first round.

On board one of your supporters said that Brisbane would give up pick 20 for McKenzie and others have demanded a first round pick. Sorry that I got you mixed up with them.

For me, McKenzie is between 27-40.

 

[BK Eaglesfan]

On board one of your supporters said that Brisbane would give up pick 20 for McKenzie and others have demanded a first round pick. Sorry that I got you mixed up with them.

For me, McKenzie is between 27-40.

So few trades seem to end up straight forward these days. Levi Greenwood for Pick 25 in 14', along with Joel Patfull for 21. Rosa last year for 31, we gave Pick 17 for Redden. I'd take Mackenzie over all four of them, even after his 2016. Fairest & best winning key defenders don't grow on trees and while I know he isn't All Australian, it was only two years ago he was in the original AA short list of the best 40 players in the comp.

All that said, do I think 1st round or go home like some Eagles supporters have been bullish about? No. As we've seen over and over every trade is unique. If they're trying to help him get somewhere for more opportunities or leverage a pick to on trade, we could see anything.

Saw a suggestion on the Freo board of a three way deal seeing Mackenzie - Ballantyne - McCarthy straight swap. Certainly that looks more palatable than the Eagles sending out Mackenzie AND a pick and Ballantyne coming in, hard as it is to put a value on McCarthy given the circumstance.

Honestly, I suspect Mackenzie will end up going nowhere. If Brown wants to get to Victoria and his missus has aleady signed with a netball team over here I can't see us letting both go. Mackenzie might have ended 16' behind McGovern, Schofield and Barass but can't go into a season with three key defenders and assume none of them will miss games or lose form.

 

[halfback dasher]

If we are going to get nothing for mackenzie I would be happy to just keep him on our list .
salary cap is only an issue if we are chasing a big name which it doesn't look like .
ballantyne we don't need and if he wants to come to us he will need to take a pay cut

"Take a pay cut " based on what ?

 

[hotchips81]

Being a premiership player doesn't automatically discount your lack of leg speed and kicking ability.

I would be careful about bringing up 'kicking ability' in a thread where you're talking up Eric's value.

 

[swooshacummings]

I would be careful about bringing up 'kicking ability' in a thread where you're talking up Eric's value.

I would be careful about assuming that my statement only applies to Spangher.

Eric's kicking improved quite a bit before his acl. Fair value applies here. Before Eric's atrophy he was an outstanding defender one on one. I will back him to get back to that form.

 

[Ok Boomer]

Eric's kicking has never been good, he just improved his decision making pre knee, and became much safer. Similar to Glass in that respect, both had a propensity to slaughter the football in earlier years. The problem for Eric is that his skills are worse post knee and the year out and game style change ruined his decision making. Long kicks down the line worked under Woosha, not Simpson.

I will back him to improve this again, and would keep him if we are only getting pick 25 onwards for him, but bagging players footskills in a Emac thread isn't a great move. Although Spangher was significantly worse when he played for us, which if you saw Emac costing us games with turnovers in 2009/10, you know that's saying a lot.

 

[EdCurnowRules]

Just read the bit about Mackenzie - Ballantyne - McCarthy... Is it April already?

Freo massive winners, WCE massive losers in that deal. Surely a second round pick from Fremantle is required also?

 

[eastfreo75]

So few trades seem to end up straight forward these days. Levi Greenwood for Pick 25 in 14', along with Joel Patfull for 21. Rosa last year for 31, we gave Pick 17 for Redden. I'd take Mackenzie over all four of them, even after his 2016. Fairest & best winning key defenders don't grow on trees and while I know he isn't All Australian, it was only two years ago he was in the original AA short list of the best 40 players in the comp.

All that said, do I think 1st round or go home like some Eagles supporters have been bullish about? No. As we've seen over and over every trade is unique. If they're trying to help him get somewhere for more opportunities or leverage a pick to on trade, we could see anything.

Saw a suggestion on the Freo board of a three way deal seeing Mackenzie - Ballantyne - McCarthy straight swap. Certainly that looks more palatable than the Eagles sending out Mackenzie AND a pick and Ballantyne coming in, hard as it is to put a value on McCarthy given the circumstance.

Honestly, I suspect Mackenzie will end up going nowhere. If Brown wants to get to Victoria and his missus has aleady signed with a netball team over here I can't see us letting both go. Mackenzie might have ended 16' behind McGovern, Schofield and Barass but can't go into a season with three key defenders and assume none of them will miss games or lose form.

Is Barass better than a fit Mackenzie?

 

[dlanod]

So few trades seem to end up straight forward these days. Levi Greenwood for Pick 25 in 14', along with Joel Patfull for 21. Rosa last year for 31, we gave Pick 17 for Redden. I'd take Mackenzie over all four of them, even after his 2016. Fairest & best winning key defenders don't grow on trees and while I know he isn't All Australian

You've listed a two time B&F winning key defender right there. Had a year or two where he was unlucky to miss out on the AA squad as well. Patfull wasn't coming off a bad year either, though IIRC was traded when he was a couple of years older than EMac.

it was only two years ago he was in the original AA short list of the best 40 players in the comp.

AA and the AA squad aren't the best X players in the comp. There's basically a whole lot of sub-sections that it really applies to, e.g. in the best half-dozen defenders that year, or in the best 25 midfielders, etc.

 

[Kram]

Just read the bit about Mackenzie - Ballantyne - McCarthy... Is it April already?

Freo massive winners, WCE massive losers in that deal. Surely a second round pick from Fremantle is required also?

West Coast fans overrating blokes that can't even get a game, comical.

 

[BK Eaglesfan]

You've listed a two time B&F winning key defender right there. Had a year or two where he was unlucky to miss out on the AA squad as well. Patfull wasn't coming off a bad year either, though IIRC was traded when he was a couple of years older than EMac.



AA and the AA squad aren't the best X players in the comp. There's basically a whole lot of sub-sections that it really applies to, e.g. in the best half-dozen defenders that year, or in the best 25 midfielders, etc.

Not denigrating Patfull or commenting on whether Pick 21 was appropriate. Using it as a comparative point for those suggesting Mackenzie is worth around the 40 mark.

Fair point re: AA short list. Actually believe similar logic applies to the rather simplistic argument around Mackenzie's worth based on him 'not even being in the Eagles best 22' as one poster keeps making. He's not ahead of three other key defenders at present in a side that plays three key type defenders, all pretty handy ones.

 

[BK Eaglesfan]

Is Barass better than a fit Mackenzie?

One on one I'd still back a fit Mackenzie. Barass in a very short time certainly seemed adept at our defensive style. This is the hard thing with Mackenzie. Was it a slow first year back from serious injury? Does the new game style not suit his strengths? This is the thing for me, he has proven pedigree over several years and for whatever (likely a combination) reason he had a tough 2016.

If it was a slow return from injury, he'll likely be back amongst our first picked next year.

If it was adaptation to the game style and he's undervalued based on 2016, someone gets a top drawer defender real cheap if he does suit their game style.

Personally, I think there's nothing but risk for the Eagles letting him go, unless someone desperate for a key defender offered us a sweetheart deal that no one on these boards would believe was reasonable.

 

[eastfreo75]

One on one I'd still back a fit Mackenzie. Barass in a very short time certainly seemed adept at our defensive style. This is the hard thing with Mackenzie. Was it a slow first year back from serious injury? Does the new game style not suit his strengths? This is the thing for me, he has proven pedigree over several years and for whatever (likely a combination) reason he had a tough 2016.

If it was a slow return from injury, he'll likely be back amongst our first picked next year.

If it was adaptation to the game style and he's undervalued based on 2016, someone gets a top drawer defender real cheap if he does suit their game style.

Personally, I think there's nothing but risk for the Eagles letting him go, unless someone desperate for a key defender offered us a sweetheart deal that no one on these boards would believe was reasonable.

Thanks

 

[Bestbird]

West Coast fans overrating blokes that can't even get a game, comical.[/QUOTE

Key position depth is a cause. Which is a good thing

 

[Scotland]

Good thread. Mackenzie was a star, did his knee, came back this year and struggled.

We keep him in the hope he'll return to his best - we're unrealistic.

We expect compensation based on him returning to his best - we're unreasonable.

We keep him as depth - we're denying him opportunity and wasting cap space.

I guess that just leaves trading him out for a late pick. Makes perfect sense to make a rival stronger for no benefit.

 

[dlanod]

You guys kept Mitch Brown when he wanted out under similar circumstances to maintain KPD depth. I can't see West Coast trading Mackenzie for the same reason.

 

[BOMBERS 4 LIFE!!!!]

I really hope Essendon stay away don't need him with Hurley,Hooker,Hartley,Brown