Toast Esava

Remove this Banner Ad

Log in to remove this ad.

catswhiskers

Premiership Player
Mar 13, 2006
4,078
6,363
Far North East
AFL Club
Geelong
Having zero football smarts isn’t an injury but I get what your saying
Zero Smarts. Playing on ball maybe , but I am still not sure even then. Playing as a Key forward you dont need smarts you need a midfield providing quality supply.
Ben Brown gets thrown out of North as no good and then when he gets his chance in front of quality ball movement, in finals too, he looks a different player.
Esava as a designated target has the tools, as a decoy 3rd tall this year he looked lost. His work v WCE in a Semi , two years ago when he received ball to advantage showed what he could do . v. Barass no less.
Would be madness to not keep him.
 

catscollector

Premiership Player
Jun 30, 2018
4,310
5,487
AFL Club
Geelong
Ben Brown gets thrown out of North as no good and then when he gets his chance in front of quality ball movement, in finals too, he looks a different player.

I didn't see much difference in Brown at all. He looks the same player he has always been.
He spent half the year in the VFL as Weiderman did not take his opportunity.

Only thing that seemingly changed was he stopped throwing his arms up in the air every contest appealing for a free kick.
 

Geelong_Sicko

Brownlow Medallist
Jun 11, 2007
19,314
17,486
Melbourne
AFL Club
Geelong
Zero Smarts. Playing on ball maybe , but I am still not sure even then. Playing as a Key forward you dont need smarts you need a midfield providing quality supply.
Ben Brown gets thrown out of North as no good and then when he gets his chance in front of quality ball movement, in finals too, he looks a different player.
Esava as a designated target has the tools, as a decoy 3rd tall this year he looked lost. His work v WCE in a Semi , two years ago when he received ball to advantage showed what he could do . v. Barass no less.
Would be madness to not keep him.

This. Tony Lockett, Gray Ablett Snr and Jason Dunstall would ALL look equally terrible if they had an inept midfield that couldn't feed them the pill properly. A forward line can't ever find the ball if it's not down there, and it only gets down there if their midfielders are stronger than the opposition.
 

calder_daddy

Premiership Player
Sep 11, 2006
4,598
9,335
AFL Club
Geelong
Zero Smarts. Playing on ball maybe , but I am still not sure even then. Playing as a Key forward you dont need smarts you need a midfield providing quality supply.
Ben Brown gets thrown out of North as no good and then when he gets his chance in front of quality ball movement, in finals too, he looks a different player.
Esava as a designated target has the tools, as a decoy 3rd tall this year he looked lost. His work v WCE in a Semi , two years ago when he received ball to advantage showed what he could do . v. Barass no less.
Would be madness to not keep him.
Ben brown is a terrible example
He kicked 60+ goals in 3 of his last 4 years
With the 4th him being injured.
You need footy smarts to play afl at a high level, athleticism only gets you so far.
A midfielder can have all the smarts in the world but if he leads to the wrong spots he won’t get used.
This isn’t the Olden days anymore, forwards need to be more than just stay at home FF
It’s the lack of knowledge in games that gets me, then once a month he takes 4 marks in a 1/4 and think we’re on here.
Just don’t think he has what it takes to be a strong afl player.
Myself and my mates all joke who has the worst player in the comp.
All similar players,
Tim Obrien
Mason Cox
Sav

Considering they’re all similar, that is a terrible group to be apart of
 
Last edited:

catswhiskers

Premiership Player
Mar 13, 2006
4,078
6,363
Far North East
AFL Club
Geelong
Ben brown is a terrible example
He kicked 60+ goals in 3 of his last 4 years
With the 4th him being injured.
You need footy smarts to play afl at a high level, athleticism only gets you so far.
A midfielder can have all the smarts in the world but if he leads to the wrong spots he won’t get used.
This isn’t the Olden days anymore, forwards need to be more than just stay at home FF
It’s the lack of knowledge in games that gets me, then once a month he takes 4 marks in a 1/4 and think we’re on here.
Just don’t think he has what it takes to be a strong afl player.
Myself and my mates all joke who has the worst player in the comp.
All similar players,
Tim Obrien
Mason Cox
Sav

Considering they’re all similar, that is a terrible group to be apart of

Your opinion is valid. My opinion of Esava's ability is different at this stage and will evolve as the next two years unfold, one way or the other.

GFC retaining him on the list being a good move is the main point I wanted to make.

The need for a KPF to have quality delivery to him, as a priority over other tall forwards in the same space to produce better figures stands in my mind. Playing solely as a KPF rather than in the ruck would help too.

Brown was probably not the best example - there are surely better ones. However, in 2020 he did kick 8 goals in 9 games before not being seen again in the vertical blues, was as much a factor of the North mids being beaten rather than Ben Brown losing his ability. Ben also kicked those 60+ goals as the only target up forward.

Anyway I am pleased Esava has more chances. Like others I want him to play as a KPF solely (in the VFL) and lets see what happens.
 

calder_daddy

Premiership Player
Sep 11, 2006
4,598
9,335
AFL Club
Geelong
Your opinion is valid. My opinion of Esava's ability is different at this stage and will evolve as the next two years unfold, one way or the other.

GFC retaining him on the list being a good move is the main point I wanted to make.

The need for a KPF to have quality delivery to him, as a priority over other tall forwards in the same space to produce better figures stands in my mind. Playing solely as a KPF rather than in the ruck would help too.

Brown was probably not the best example - there are surely better ones. However, in 2020 he did kick 8 goals in 9 games before not being seen again in the vertical blues, was as much a factor of the North mids being beaten rather than Ben Brown losing his ability. Ben also kicked those 60+ goals as the only target up forward.

Anyway I am pleased Esava has more chances. Like others I want him to play as a KPF solely (in the VFL) and lets see what happens.
I know you want to keep him but are you happy with him and what he’s achieved so far? Do you see glimpses of him putting a full game together?
I know KPP take time but most Atleast put in a full game performance by now, even if it’s just a once off.


Just on Brown, his last season at the Roos is irrelevant.
If you watched him or remember he could hardly run, his knee was awful and Roos medical department thought his career was in strife.
You don’t give away a player like that without doubt over his body.
Remembering his manager knocked back a large deal.

Here’s a quote I found


“It was enough for the Kangaroos to table a lucrative three-year deal reportedly worth $750,000 a season at the start of the year - an offer Brown and manager Adam Ramanauskas rebuffed.”
 
Last edited:

cats_09

Moderator
Jun 21, 2011
38,090
71,007
AFL Club
Geelong
Let this thread be a reminder to all who are writing off Esava this early. It was posted at the start of his tenth season, Esava is going into his sixth.


Not sure that thread is a good comparison with the Ratugolea situation, or that there was much support for the basis on which that thread was started & the idea of writing off Hawkins

The thread was posted after our round 4 match versus Essendon, and was questioning the value of a forward who had averaged 2.8, 2.2, 2.4 & 2.8 goals in his previous 4 seasons and if he should instead be averaging 1 goal a quarter (or 4 per match) - 2008 is the last time a player averaged over 4 goals a game, so easier said than done

The best part of that thread is how it's turned into more of a Hawkins toast thread

As you pointed out, Ratugolea is coming into his 6th season - so at what point is the discussion around him less about his potential and more focused about his actually output?
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

BORIS332

Premiership Player
Dec 22, 2016
3,643
7,680
AFL Club
Geelong
Not sure that thread is a good comparison with the Ratugolea situation, or that there was much support for the basis on which that thread was started & the idea of writing off Hawkins

The thread was posted after our round 4 match versus Essendon, and was questioning the value of a forward who had averaged 2.8, 2.2, 2.4 & 2.8 goals in his previous 4 seasons and if he should instead be averaging 1 goal a quarter (or 4 per match) - 2008 is the last time a player averaged over 4 goals a game, so easier said than done

The best part of that thread is how it's turned into more of a Hawkins toast thread

As you pointed out, Ratugolea is coming into his 6th season - so at what point is the discussion around him less about his potential and more focused about his actually output?

That question implies his output has been poor. It's an impossible question to answer without defining how to measure his output. We're talking about a 23 year old that's just ticked over the 50 games mark, has mixed between forward/ruck, and never really had continuity at any level or in any one position.

It's a very tough question and one I grapple with a lot. I could argue he was one of our most important players in the semi final due to his aerial contests, but he also never reached the 10 disposals mark in any of his final 10 games of the season. Personally, I am happy with where he's currently at, I am not willing to make a call either way until he reaches 100 games.
 

cats_09

Moderator
Jun 21, 2011
38,090
71,007
AFL Club
Geelong
If 2022 is a repeat of his 2021 output and we don't start actually seeing improvement, not sure he gets to 100 games

Surely it's at the point where he should be earning games through good form - so maybe that means a good half of next season in the VFL with a focus on playing either as a tall forward or as the #1 ruck, because at this stage it's hard to say he's done enough to hold down a senior spot in either role & when spitting his time between the 2 he seems to provide even less
 

you pick one

Brownlow Medallist
Nov 7, 2010
24,994
31,819
308 Negra Arroyo Lane Albuquerque New Mexico
AFL Club
Geelong
Other Teams
WADA
Ben brown is a terrible example
He kicked 60+ goals in 3 of his last 4 years
With the 4th him being injured.
You need footy smarts to play afl at a high level, athleticism only gets you so far.
A midfielder can have all the smarts in the world but if he leads to the wrong spots he won’t get used.
This isn’t the Olden days anymore, forwards need to be more than just stay at home FF
It’s the lack of knowledge in games that gets me, then once a month he takes 4 marks in a 1/4 and think we’re on here.
Just don’t think he has what it takes to be a strong afl player.
Myself and my mates all joke who has the worst player in the comp.
All similar players,
Tim Obrien
Mason Cox
Sav

Considering they’re all similar, that is a terrible group to be apart of
Probable the worst example ever,Brown was right up there with Cameron and Hawkins for the majority of the last 4 years as you say and if Sav ever got to that level we would be well pleased.I'm concerned he's not going to get with in a bull roar of Brown.
 

Partridge

Hall of Famer
Nov 12, 2002
39,459
45,681
AFL Club
Geelong
Let this thread be a reminder to all who are writing off Esava this early. It was posted at the start of his tenth season, Esava is going into his sixth.

Hawkins showed more in his first five games that Ratugolea has shown in five years. He was far better on debut, in his first and second year, has always - ALWAYS - been a much, much better and more natural footballer. It's not even close.
 

calder_daddy

Premiership Player
Sep 11, 2006
4,598
9,335
AFL Club
Geelong
Probable the worst example ever,Brown was right up there with Cameron and Hawkins for the majority of the last 4 years as you say and if Sav ever got to that level we would be well pleased.I'm concerned he's not going to get with in a bull roar of Brown.
Like I stated in another post his fair comparison is Tim Obrien and to some extent Mason Cox

Sav and Obrien are awfully similar
 

BORIS332

Premiership Player
Dec 22, 2016
3,643
7,680
AFL Club
Geelong
Hawkins showed more in his first five games that Ratugolea has shown in five years. He was far better on debut, in his first and second year, has always - ALWAYS - been a much, much better and more natural footballer. It's not even close.

Who said he was as good as Hawkins? I said don’t write Ratugolea off this early like so many did Hawkins. I’d hazard a guess you were one of them.
 

CatToTheFuture

Brownlow Medallist
Aug 18, 2018
10,895
16,563
AFL Club
Geelong
Raging debate over whether or not he can improve but honestly I can't see him being a functional forward for us while Hawkins is playing even if he's going to improve. This weird role where he kind of rucks and kind of roams for down the line marks and then goes forward and competes for space with a bunch of other marking targets is never going to make him look good.

If he's still the same player in 2023 then we deal with it then. Until then I don't understand why he wouldn't be in the vfl barring an injury in the seniors
 

BORIS332

Premiership Player
Dec 22, 2016
3,643
7,680
AFL Club
Geelong
Some of Hawkins first afl games were better than Sav will ever produce

In the post you replied to I literally said I wasn’t comparing him to Hawkins. Just using Hawkins as an example of a player being written off too soon. Comprehension’s not too strong in this thread.
 

cats_09

Moderator
Jun 21, 2011
38,090
71,007
AFL Club
Geelong
In the post you replied to I literally said I wasn’t comparing him to Hawkins. Just using Hawkins as an example of a player being written off too soon. Comprehension’s not too strong in this thread.

That thread wasn't Hawkins being written off though

It was one poster questioning Hawkins because he wasn't averaging 1 goal per quarter - not one like for the opening post of that thread, says all you need to know about to dispute the idea Hawkins was written off
 

Farmer2Goggin

Norm Smith Medallist
Aug 17, 2009
7,146
12,886
Perth
AFL Club
Geelong
Other Teams
Celtics
If 2022 is a repeat of his 2021 output and we don't start actually seeing improvement, not sure he gets to 100 games

Surely it's at the point where he should be earning games through good form - so maybe that means a good half of next season in the VFL with a focus on playing either as a tall forward or as the #1 ruck, because at this stage it's hard to say he's done enough to hold down a senior spot in either role & when spitting his time between the 2 he seems to provide even less

Let's hope we get a full VFL season and Sav gets a chance to be the #1 forward - he has a lot to work on though - forward craft , leading , positioning in marking contests and of course set shot effectiveness. He also has to be injury free so he can use his athleticism.
Looks like a ripper bloke , wish him well.
 

calder_daddy

Premiership Player
Sep 11, 2006
4,598
9,335
AFL Club
Geelong
In the post you replied to I literally said I wasn’t comparing him to Hawkins. Just using Hawkins as an example of a player being written off too soon. Comprehension’s not too strong in this thread.
Not having a go at you.
I’m just pointing out my comparison
 

Remove this Banner Ad

Remove this Banner Ad