Toast Esava

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standupand

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On the above, some talk about Ratugolea "crashing packs" and that it's an apparent strength or point of difference be offers, - but I'm not sure there's really too many times where he's "crashed a pack" with the intention of doing so, versus him just misreading the flight of the ball or misjudging his ability to mark the ball & the result is him just jumping into a pack
Yes, when he happens not to be in a position to mark it, he still manages to jump into the pack, make a contest and bring others into the game. That is a point of difference to Hawkins for me who relies a lot on one-on-ones and using his core strength. Compared to Cameron, both players are good (Hawkins excellent imo) at bringing others into the game.
 

Farmer2Goggin

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Sav's biggest weakness for me is how he judges the footy in flight, hes continually ran under the footy from the first game he was selected, not sure thats something thats ever going to improve either, generally you either read the game well or you don't.

Agree and at the danger of stereotyping it's the same affliction Natanui has - sure Nic takes the occasional screamer but as any honest Eagles fan will tell you he just doesn't judge it well enough to be in the contest - particularly between the arcs where he is virtually useless in the marking department.
 

standupand

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Im all for being patient but at some point youve got to cut the crap and accept that a player just isnt that good, Sav will have had 8 pre seasons by the time his current contract ends, if he hasnt drastically increased his output by then I'd cut him.
Fair enough, but judge the output relative to opportunity. He's never going to be kicking 30 plus while Hawkins is still in his prime.
 

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cats_09

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Yes, when he happens not to be in a position to mark it, he still manages to jump into the pack, make a contest and bring others into the game. That is a point of difference to Hawkins for me who relies a lot on one-on-ones and using his core strength. Compared to Cameron, both players are good (Hawkins excellent imo) at bringing others into the game.
I never said anything about him making a contest or bringing others into the game - often that's not the result

There's times he jumps from 4 or so deep with the intention of trying to mark the ball when he is in no position to mark the ball, and he has no impact on the contest or bringing others into the game by bringing the ball to ground - that raises the question around a players footy nous or ability to read the game

If he was playing in a manner where you watched him jump from the back of the pack knowing he was out of position & he was trying to spoil, then I could agree that it's a point of difference - but just jumping into a pack marking situation when you think you can mark the back but are out of position, really isn't good play

We saw similar from Kreuger in his couple of senior games this past season where he jumped from like 4 or 5 deep, had no impact and all he ended up doing was sitting on his arse
 

standupand

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I never said anything about him making a contest or bringing others into the game - often that's not the result

There's times he jumps from 4 or so deep with the intention of trying to mark the ball when he is in no position to mark the ball, and he has no impact on the contest or bringing others into the game by bringing the ball to ground - that raises the question around a players footy nous or ability to read the game

If he was playing in a manner where you watched him jump from the back of the pack knowing he was out of position & he was trying to spoil, then I could agree that it's a point of difference - but just jumping into a pack marking situation when you think you can mark the back but are out of position, really isn't good play

We saw similar from Kreuger in his couple of senior games this past season where he jumped from like 4 or 5 deep, had no impact and all he ended up doing was sitting on his arse
Sure. It was a bit tongue-in-cheek- just trying to point out the positives. But in all seriousness I do know what you mean. Sometimes he can end up spoiling a teammate who may be in a better position. But I'd prefer he launches at the ball and thinks he can get there than not thinking he can get it at all. More often than not, when he does so, he creates opportunities for others (or even himself) at ground level. I also think he's a better user in open play than he is with a mark / free kick, particularly around the ground - so our chip-it-around game really doesn't suit him. I think his ground-level ability is underrated as is his ability to set up teammates in contested situations.
 

PhatBoy

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Ratugolea reminds me of an Adrian Hickmott or Clint Bizzell - a talent for doing relatively little in spectacular fashion
 

PhatBoy

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Bizzell's highlight reel shits on Esava's after his first 50 games.


Games 35-50 must have been something because I’ve seen lawn bowlers with better stats after his first three seasons. At any rate they both have a penchant for looking likely to bust their way to the next level without actually doing it
 

catscollector

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Games 35-50 must have been something because I’ve seen lawn bowlers with better stats after his first three seasons. At any rate they both have a penchant for looking likely to bust their way to the next level without actually doing it

Shame this current coach enjoys playing the bloke out of position isn't it?
Makes me wonder how he'd go if he played as a permanent key position player opposed to rolling into the ruck for a half the game at a time.

Hickmott was a good footballer as well. In fact, he'd be a better option than a Gary Rohan whom you are fond of.
 

PhatBoy

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Shame this current coach enjoys playing the bloke out of position isn't it?
Makes me wonder how he'd go if he played as a permanent key position player opposed to rolling into the ruck for a half the game at a time.

Hickmott was a good footballer as well. In fact, he'd be a better option than a Gary Rohan whom you are fond of.


Wow that escalated quickly.

What makes you think I’m fond of Gary Rohan? The fact that I don’t write abusive posts about him just because he’s ordinary compared to most other footballers but miles better than anyone I know?
Interesting.

Yes it’s amazing how with two Coleman medalists but only one semi-functional and frequently injured ruckman that Ratugolea gets used to patch holes in both roles I’m amazed our deaf dumb blind and clearly inferior to everyone in the AFL landscape coach doesn’t make him our prime focal point up forward
 

Partridge

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Again, after three seasons of doing absolutely nothing. And really, one and a half seasons of doing something isn’t a ringing endorsement

In comparison to Ratugolea it absolutely is.

And it wasn't three seasons of doing absolutely nothing either:
  • 1996 - 4 games in his first season.
  • 1997 - ACL and missed the entire season.
  • 1998 - became an established senior player and contributed good footy. In Round 22 played a superb game in a great win over Essendon and got 2 Brownlow votes. That game alone is better than anything Ratugolea has produced. It was just his 21st game.
That's the planet Earth reality of his first three seasons. Again, much better than Ratugolea.

I'm keenly awaiting for Ratugolea's one and a half seasons of doing something as well, because it needs to happen soon.
 

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PhatBoy

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In comparison to Ratugolea it absolutely is.

And it wasn't three seasons of doing absolutely nothing either:
  • 1996 - 4 games in his first season.
  • 1997 - ACL and missed the entire season.
  • 1998 - became an established senior player and contributed good footy. In Round 22 played a superb game in a great win over Essendon and got 2 Brownlow votes. That game alone is better than anything Ratugolea has produced. It was just his 21st game.
That's the planet Earth reality of his first three seasons. Again, much better than Ratugolea.

I'm keenly awaiting for Ratugolea's one and a half seasons of doing something as well, because it needs to happen soon.

Fine he was a superstar and their common thread of looking spectacular but delivering very little is redundant because Bizzell was an Ablett with a different name. My bad
 

Partridge

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Fine he was a superstar and their common thread of looking spectacular but delivering very little is redundant because Bizzell was an Ablett with a different name. My bad

Bizzell delivered good football on the field and for a while there was very good for us. Ratugolea hasn't come close to that yet. That's the point.
 

standupand

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Ratugolea reminds me of an Adrian Hickmott or Clint Bizzell - a talent for doing relatively little in spectacular fashion
The kind of player I'd compare Esava to is Cam Mooney. Both big guys, not high draft picks. Cam spent time in the ruck (and down back) earlier in his career when there was a need, before cementing a spot up forward maybe around his 6 or 7th year on the list. Great team player. Always gave it his all, threw his weight around to bring others into the game. But he certainly didn't light things up in his first 3 years.
 

PhatBoy

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Bizzell delivered good football on the field and for a while there was very good for us. Ratugolea hasn't come close to that yet. That's the point.


You do understand that to compare to
Players and simply say ‘one reminds me of aspects of the other’ they don’t have to have had identical careers yeah?

Next time someone compares Damien Martyn to Carl hooper I’ll point out their difference in average and say that you can’t compare them.
 

Partridge

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You do understand that to compare to
Players and simply say ‘one reminds me of aspects of the other’ they don’t have to have had identical careers yeah?

Next time someone compares Damien Martyn to Carl hooper I’ll point out their difference in average and say that you can’t compare them.

You do not understand that when comparing Ratugolea to other players there has to be an actual point of comparison.

You want a real comparison - find players who'd contributed very very little in just over 50 games.
 

Partridge

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On the above, some talk about Ratugolea "crashing packs" and that it's an apparent strength or point of difference be offers, - but I'm not sure there's really too many times where he's "crashed a pack" with the intention of doing so, versus him just misreading the flight of the ball or misjudging his ability to mark the ball & the result is him just jumping into a pack

To be honest "crashing packs" is just a modern euphemism for "can't mark".

In the same way "playing his role" means "he's really sh*t".
 

PhatBoy

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You do not understand that when comparing Ratugolea to other players there has to be an actual point of comparison.

You want a real comparison - find players who'd contributed very very little in just over 50 games.

Oh for fu**s sake mate get over it.

Both players look spectacular both didn’t have careers that match. End of story
 

PhatBoy

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Honestly who the fu**
Would want to play for this club if they read half the vitriol of the people who support it
 

PhatBoy

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Get the kleenex out mate. Such a precious little petal. You don't need to argue with other people's opinions just because you don't agree with them.


It’s not an opinion I’m arguing with if you actually bother reading.

It’s this ‘rule’ that players have to have lived an absolutely identical life up to a certain point in their careers for you to dare be able to make any sort of comparison between them that I’m arguing with.
 

Down at K Park

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It’s not an opinion I’m arguing with if you actually bother reading.

It’s this ‘rule’ that players have to have lived an absolutely identical life up to a certain point in their careers for you to dare be able to make any sort of comparison between them that I’m arguing with.
Why get so wound up about it? Just relax a little.
 

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