Toast Esava

[catswhiskers]

crazy idea but if fit would you consider playing lachie henderson up forward and give sav a spell?

What you suggest might work if Hendo or Harry play forward to occupy McGovern. But then who rucks when Stanley needs a rest?

If Sav is given a break and from what I have seen of Fort / Abbott/ Krueger, I would play Abbott deep forward with Hawkins further up the ground. (in fact if Sav stays in I would do that anyway and Rohan a bit further up too).

What worries me most is Sav continuing to struggle and losing all confidence. Parsons was picked for far too long a time after it was obvious his head was going down and he is only just starting to recover (if he ever does).

 

[Gee Class Loco]

All i will say on this thread is this...
Thank GOD the coaching staff have a the final say.
As they are the ones who know what he does or doesn't do and what others in the magoos can provide.
For team structure and balance he is a crucial piece.
Oh... and I still remember the howls of get TomaHawk back to the twos in his first couple of years of senior footy and he only had one position. whilst playing amongst All Stars.

 

[BennyGan]

Again you would but Henderson can not part time in the ruck

What you suggest might work if Hendo or Harry play forward to occupy McGovern. But then who rucks when Stanley needs a rest?

If Sav is given a break and from what I have seen of Fort / Abbott/ Krueger, I would play Abbott deep forward with Hawkins further up the ground. (in fact if Sav stays in I would do that anyway and Rohan a bit further up too).

What worries me most is Sav continuing to struggle and losing all confidence. Parsons was picked for far too long a time after it was obvious his head was going down and he is only just starting to recover (if he ever does).

yeah lol completely forgot about the need for the pinch hit ruck for a second there

 

[The rabbi]

 

[Drunkcat]

So people keep saying Hawkins when he first stated blahblah well he never grew up playing footy as a kid like Hawkins and Hawkins would never have played 5 games in a row for 1 goal

 

[Gee Class Loco]

So people keep saying Hawkins when he first stated blahblah well he never grew up playing footy as a kid like Hawkins and Hawkins would never have played 5 games in a row for 1 goal

Just so people out there know that Hawkins 7th, 8th, 9th, 10th and 11th games yielded... You guessed it... 1 goal in 5 outings. Then throughout another 6 game stretch it yielded 4 goals (14th -19th games).
So as you can see in his first 20 games he had 10 games for a massive total of 5 goals.
So let that sink in a little.
Cheers Boys!

 

[Mr Blicavs]

All i will say on this thread is this...
Thank GOD the coaching staff have a the final say.
As they are the ones who know what he does or doesn't do and what others in the magoos can provide.
For team structure and balance he is a crucial piece.
Oh... and I still remember the howls of get TomaHawk back to the twos in his first couple of years of senior footy and he only had one position. whilst playing amongst All Stars.

For mine, Sav is the best option up forward.... but dont kid yourself that his selection is as rock solid as you think it is. Im sure theres been many a conversation around his selection in recent weeks by the match committee

 

[Warhorse]

Just so people out there know that Hawkins 7th, 8th, 9th, 10th and 11th games yielded... You guessed it... 1 goal in 5 outings. Then throughout another 6 game stretch it yielded 4 goals (14th -19th games).
So as you can see in his first 20 games he had 10 games for a massive total of 5 goals.
So let that sink in a little.
Cheers Boys!

Did Hawkins ever average 1 mark and 6 touches per game over a 5 game stretch?

 

[AM]

We are winning and he's garnering far more useful football intel and confidence in the ones than he would in the twos. It's a long term play.

 

[Warhorse]

Problem with esava is he doesn't get much ball in the vfl

 

[Footy Smarts]

He's still probably our best option given it would be either Buzza or an out of position ruck who would replace him. There's nothing wrong with pumping games into a talented kid if we're still getting the job done. In a month if he's still struggling we could try other options for a few weeks and let him get some confidence in the 2s but I seriously doubt anything else would work better. Just got to hope he finds some confidence especially with his goal kicking.

 

[darrenmorgan]

Keep playing him whilst we are winning. Getting games into him is key. If/when we start losing then reconsider.


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[Ratcat]

Having him play CHF/Ruck might be all a bit much for him , that's a fair stretch to be effective at both. Seems to me the expectations are a bit high atm.

 

[Biggy_Boy]

Problem with esava is he doesn't get much ball in the vfl

Doesn't get much ball anywhere.

 

[Wish Wellingtons]

He clearly needs a big game next week. He has been in pretty average form this year.

 

[Partridge]

Just so people out there know that Hawkins 7th, 8th, 9th, 10th and 11th games yielded... You guessed it... 1 goal in 5 outings. Then throughout another 6 game stretch it yielded 4 goals (14th -19th games).
So as you can see in his first 20 games he had 10 games for a massive total of 5 goals.
So let that sink in a little.
Cheers Boys!

True. But his first six games yielded 12 goals including two hauls of 4 and one of 3 (on debut). You stretch it to 13 games (exactly what Ratugolea has currently played) and there was another of 3 goals and one of 5.

It can sink in as much as people want. Hawkins showed much more much earlier. He just did.

 

[Max Milburn]

True. But his first six games yielded 12 goals including two hauls of 4 and one of 3 (on debut). You stretch it to 13 games (exactly what Ratugolea has currently played) and there was another of 3 goals and one of 5.

It can sink in as much as people want. Hawkins showed much more much earlier. He just did.

Who said he was as good as Hawkins?
The point was made to show that developing young key forwards requires some patience.
Whether he needs a break in the twos or not won't be up to any of us.

 

[Turbocat]

All i will say on this thread is this...
Thank GOD the coaching staff have a the final say.
As they are the ones who know what he does or doesn't do and what others in the magoos can provide.
For team structure and balance he is a crucial piece.
Oh... and I still remember the howls of get TomaHawk back to the twos in his first couple of years of senior footy and he only had one position. whilst playing amongst All Stars.

Plenty wanted Hawk traded.. .. but Hawk as a comparison is not quite right in my mind.

I guess you are ref that Hawkins , no matter what some thought was still contributing in those lead up years... the scoreboard was infequent but he took some heat off Mooney.
He did cop it..he had flaws in some peoples eyes and maybe there were expecting Locket type goal numbers.


To me Sav has looked different this year..Krock says sore.. I was reading it as a lack of confidence in his body.. the way he stayed down after a fly the other day .. I wonder if he is still feeling pain.. pre leg ..he flew for the ball with a bit of reckless abandon , it seems more now that he knows injuries hurt. Hawk post back was the same. He still is jumping at the CB and at the mark but he seems to do it with a knowledge of consequence as he haas not taken near as many. Then his kicking has gone right off... so even when he takes a mark..unless it the goal square I have no confidence atm that he will kick a goal

I agree on his importance but I think the club has to be conscience of his output and if he needs a rest.

 

[Turbocat]

True. But his first six games yielded 12 goals including two hauls of 4 and one of 3 (on debut). You stretch it to 13 games (exactly what Ratugolea has currently played) and there was another of 3 goals and one of 5.

It can sink in as much as people want. Hawkins showed much more much earlier. He just did.

He did ..but Hawk was coming from a higher spot in law of things. Sav was always a green player that would need development.. Hawk was almost considered a #1 pick. So there were different pressures.. I still suspect many thought he was lazy and just a big kid that belted up on the smaller ones in school footy.. I think he has sai it took him a while to get his head around professional sport... if he had found it a lot earlier who knows what 08 would have been for us.
With Sav.. I look not so much at what he is giving as the way he is doing it. I just dont see this huge Gazelle running and jumping like he was pre injury.. it now looks more like hard work for him. Maybe it something he has to just work thru but maybe he is due for a break.

 

[moond0g]

Who said he was as good as Hawkins?
The point was made to show that developing young key forwards requires some patience.
Whether he needs a break in the twos or not won't be up to any of us.

It's obvious that key forwards take some time to develop. And don't get me wrong i have high hopes for sav.

But one thing overlooked when comparing the stats of key forwards early days is the amount that never improve. It's all well and good to say Hawkins started slow, or Buddy didn't kick a heap of goals in his first year. But they obviously improved, there are plenty of young key forwards who play 10-20 games and are average and get delisted. never play again.

I hope, and don't think this will be the case with esava, but if he isn't performing then at some stage he has to get dropped. Then we just have to have confidence he will improve his output, come back and be a better player

 

[Gee Class Loco]

Did Hawkins ever average 1 mark and 6 touches per game over a 5 game stretch?

Does his 3 games outta his first 6 games count in 2007 .... 17 poss, 4 marks for 3 behinds ?? Playing in a star studded team full of All Stars.
It happens get over it...
Cheers & Go Catters!!

 

[geelong_crazy26]

Just so people out there know that Hawkins 7th, 8th, 9th, 10th and 11th games yielded... You guessed it... 1 goal in 5 outings. Then throughout another 6 game stretch it yielded 4 goals (14th -19th games).
So as you can see in his first 20 games he had 10 games for a massive total of 5 goals.
So let that sink in a little.
Cheers Boys!

I’m the one who was earliest on the sav bandwagon and even started this thread, but what he has dished up this season has been largely disappointing.

And in no way whatsoever is he on a similar trajectory to that of what Tom Hawkins. Hawkins came out and went bang kicking 7 goals his first two weeks as a first year key forward and showed a lot in patches of a superstar where as sav didn’t debut till his second year, and at the exact same point in their careers in their third seasons of footy Hawkins kicked 32 goals.. esava has so far his third season kicked 1 goal in 5 matches while hardly touching it.

I am still a fan of esava but he needs to at least kick his 1-2 goals a game to keep his spot as a key forward.

Right now he is too below par to keep in, we will get found out as opposition will start exposing him

 

[Pure_Ownage]

What you suggest might work if Hendo or Harry play forward to occupy McGovern. But then who rucks when Stanley needs a rest?

If Sav is given a break and from what I have seen of Fort / Abbott/ Krueger, I would play Abbott deep forward with Hawkins further up the ground. (in fact if Sav stays in I would do that anyway and Rohan a bit further up too).

What worries me most is Sav continuing to struggle and losing all confidence. Parsons was picked for far too long a time after it was obvious his head was going down and he is only just starting to recover (if he ever does).

Agree on all that. Given Savs form i think one of Henderson HT or Henry needs to play CHF for a few weeks with Sav in the vfl but that leaves us with no recognised 2nd ruck. Which is why we may try Abbott or Fortinstead but it takes ruck time away from Stanley. No great solutions which is why I would love a Wright type on our list.

 

[Pure_Ownage]

He's still probably our best option given it would be either Buzza or an out of position ruck who would replace him. There's nothing wrong with pumping games into a talented kid if we're still getting the job done. In a month if he's still struggling we could try other options for a few weeks and let him get some confidence in the 2s but I seriously doubt anything else would work better. Just got to hope he finds some confidence especially with his goal kicking.

I agree to a point but the problem with this is if you back it in and his form is even worse by round 20? You almost have to drop him then and its not fair on Abbott or Henry/Hendo/HT etc to throw them forward at 5 mins to midnight having not played there all year. I am a massive Sav fan but surely we need to find out earlier what plan B is or we are taking a huge risk with all of our eggs in one basket.

 

[Gee Class Loco]

I’m the one who was earliest on the sav bandwagon and even started this thread, but what he has dished up this season has been largely disappointing.

And in no way whatsoever is he on a similar trajectory to that of what Tom Hawkins. Hawkins came out and went bang kicking 7 goals his first two weeks as a first year key forward and showed a lot in patches of a superstar where as sav didn’t debut till his second year, and at the exact same point in their careers in their third seasons of footy Hawkins kicked 32 goals.. esava has so far his third season kicked 1 goal in 5 matches while hardly touching it.

I am still a fan of esava but he needs to at least kick his 1-2 goals a game to keep his spot as a key forward.

Right now he is too below par to keep in, we will get found out as opposition will start exposing him

Well, I Disagree.
Just remember this, he is not a CHF he is a Forward-Ruck Hybred.
We do not have a CHF in the Magoos.... and No No Krueger is not one.... Nor is Buzza.
He (a CHF) will have to come via Free Agency or via trade for i would say Tim Kelly. Did someone say Jarrod Brander??
He plays in the CHF spot that keeps our structure and is there to creates a contest to allow our smalls a fighting chance, something we did not have previously. Also providing back-up ruck work for Stanley.
Those who are of the opinion he is a CHF have been drinking way too much cool aid i'm afraid.
Anyway let see what comes from the next half a dozen games til the bye and then we will have a better body of work to analyse it a lot better.
Cheers & Go Catters!!