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Toast Esava

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Partridge said:
Can't help noticing the massive (and instant improvement) the minute he left the field against Collingwood, and last night.
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Nah man, I just think that's unfair. I like a lot of your posts, and sure highlight his faults, or pump up his replacement, or comment on the team structure with and without him. But to put our improvement in the space of a game and a half down to the absence of a player on our own team who is injured?
 
standupand said:
Nah man, I just think that's unfair. I like a lot of your posts, and sure highlight his faults, or pump up his replacement, or comment on the team structure with and without him. But to put our improvement in the space of a game and a half down to the absence of a player on our own team who is injured?
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It’s not on one man, but having 22 players contributing is better than 21, and one bloke out there doing next to nothing.
 

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standupand said:
Nah man, I just think that's unfair. I like a lot of your posts, and sure highlight his faults, or pump up his replacement, or comment on the team structure with and without him. But to put our improvement in the space of a game and a half down to the absence of a player on our own team who is injured?
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Is it not fair though to suggest that over the last 5 quarters of football, we haven't really missed Ratugolea, instead we've adapted to his absence and that the forced changes in terms of personnel & structure have worked well in our favour

Look at a key structural change we made in the absence of Ratugolea
  • Blicavs moved from FB to play a well accustomed role as key utility & ruck support
  • Blicavs stats for last night are 22 disposals (9 kicks & 13 handballs), 7 marks, 8 tackles, 20 hitouts, 5 clearances (equal team high), 3 inside 50s, 2 behinds & a goal assist
  • surely it's fair to say he makes for a pretty solid to good ruck support option

To put Blicavs stats into some perspective, here's Ratugoleas stats for the season to date:
  • 19 disposals (11 kicks & 8 handballs), 6 marks, 7 tackles, 13 hitouts, 2 clearances & 3 inside 50s
  • He's yet to register a score or goal assist this season

Surely it's pretty damning that Blicavs did more last night than Ratugolea had done this season


I don't know anyone who wants Ratugolea or any of our players to fail, but we've seen how quickly & easily and adapted to his absence, and that maybe now is the right time for him to have an extended run in the VFL to find form & confidence in his game
 
cats_09 said:
Is it not fair though to suggest that over the last 5 quarters of football, we haven't really missed Ratugolea, instead we've adapted to his absence and that the forced changes in terms of personnel & structure have worked well in our favour

Look at a key structural change we made in the absence of Ratugolea
  • Blicavs moved from FB to play a well accustomed role as key utility & ruck support
  • Blicavs stats for last night are 22 disposals (9 kicks & 13 handballs), 7 marks, 8 tackles, 20 hitouts, 5 clearances (equal team high), 3 inside 50s, 2 behinds & a goal assist
  • surely it's fair to say he makes for a pretty solid to good ruck support option

To put Blicavs stats into some perspective, here's Ratugoleas stats for the season to date:
  • 19 disposals (11 kicks & 8 handballs), 6 marks, 7 tackles, 13 hitouts, 2 clearances & 3 inside 50s
  • He's yet to register a score or goal assist this season

Surely it's pretty damning that Blicavs did more last night than Ratugolea had done this season


I don't know anyone who wants Ratugolea or any of our players to fail, but we've seen how quickly & easily and adapted to his absence, and that maybe now is the right time for him to have an extended run in the VFL to find form & confidence in his game
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I don't quite understand your response here. What I said was it's fair to comment on structural changes etc that may have been made in his absence, but not to suggest that him suffering an injury essentially makes us a better team. The points you make show that we adapted well to his absence and that Blicavs had a great game. Stanley probably shouldered more of the load too around the ground. I mean, it's a bit of a joke when a player continues to get bagged in here when he didn't even make it onto the field this weekend. Scott has often praised him. Dangerfield, I noticed, spoke very highly of him post match and how much they missed his presence out there. I'll listen to those people when they describe his value to the side before I go trying to make sense of abstract numbers.
 
standupand said:
I don't quite understand your response here. What I said was it's fair to comment on structural changes etc that may have been made in his absence, but not to suggest that him suffering an injury essentially makes us a better team. The points you make show that we adapted well to his absence and that Blicavs had a great game. Stanley probably shouldered more of the load too around the ground. I mean, it's a bit of a joke when a player continues to get bagged in here when he didn't even make it onto the field this weekend. Scott has often praised him. Dangerfield, I noticed, spoke very highly of him post match and how much they missed his presence out there. I'll listen to those people when they describe his value to the side before I go trying to make sense of abstract numbers.
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In regards to comments from teammates or the coach - have you ever heard any player from any team say, “yeah, well we’re a better team without Player X”; I’m not surprised to hear the support for Ratugolea, it would have been more of a shock if there wasn’t support for him

As for the injury - I haven’t seen any rejoice in him getting injured or specifically saying that it’s his injury which made us look a better team. The talk from folk seems to be centered around his absence, & folks have been asking to see what the senior team would look like if he didn‘t play - just seems that the only way we’re going to see the senior team without him is due to injury

What will be interesting this coming week is to see what happens come Friday/Saturday night - will he come straight into the 26 man squad and the final 22, or will we have a second look at the team without him
 
cats_09 said:
In regards to comments from teammates or the coach - have you ever heard any player from any team say, “yeah, well we’re a better team without Player X”; I’m not surprised to hear the support for Ratugolea, it would have been more of a shock if there wasn’t support for him

As for the injury - I haven’t seen any rejoice in him getting injured or specifically saying that it’s his injury which made us look a better team. The talk from folk seems to be centered around his absence, & folks have been asking to see what the senior team would look like if he didn‘t play - just seems that the only way we’re going to see the senior team without him is due to injury

What will be interesting this coming week is to see what happens come Friday/Saturday night - will he come straight into the 26 man squad and the final 22, or will we have a second look at the team without him
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From Danger's comments, straight in, so here's hoping.
The continual calls here for him to play VFL, why not leave it up to the coach and MC who are doing an awesome job with our structure.
Some people just don't get it- Sav has a role, and it's to occupy a tall and good defender, and to let other KF's do their thing. Stats are meaningless in that context. He competes well, and does what he is asked to do, not to please the knockers on BF.
If he does get VFL time, fine, but to keep on harping on about it is just asking for praise if and when it finally happens; bit like our eventual demise.
 
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cats_09 said:
In regards to comments from teammates or the coach - have you ever heard any player from any team say, “yeah, well we’re a better team without Player X”; I’m not surprised to hear the support for Ratugolea, it would have been more of a shock if there wasn’t support for him

As for the injury - I haven’t seen any rejoice in him getting injured or specifically saying that it’s his injury which made us look a better team. The talk from folk seems to be centered around his absence, & folks have been asking to see what the senior team would look like if he didn‘t play - just seems that the only way we’re going to see the senior team without him is due to injury

What will be interesting this coming week is to see what happens come Friday/Saturday night - will he come straight into the 26 man squad and the final 22, or will we have a second look at the team without him
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C'mon, of course not. I don't even expect to hear that sort of stuff from the cats fans here on BF, let alone his own teammates or coach. They don't have to say anything about him if they don't want to. I think they choose to because they know internally he plays an important role that doesn't get all the plaudits but makes their own role easier. I don't just assume that whenever any player or coach talks about someone's value to the team, they're just flat-out lying.

Look, part of the reason I come here is to read genuine argument about team selection and about whether players should be playing VFL or traded or delisted or whatever. So it's fine. I'd be mortified of course if anyone here was rejoicing about an injury to any player let alone one on our own team. That's not what I meant. I just didn't think it was fair to the player. You know.. to imply about anyone who is selected to play, pulls on the hoops and goes out there and tries their best every week, that what's wrong with the team is their presence in it. Not that we had to structure up differently and that it worked. Not that we were better playing an extra midfielder or small forward instead. Not that Dahlhaus offered a lot more as a useful replacement. Or whatever it is. But that one's analysis of the team as a whole across 5 quarters, is purely that we were good because one of our injured players wasn't there to take part.
 
Down at K Park said:
It’s not on one man, but having 22 players contributing is better than 21, and one bloke out there doing next to nothing.
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Said it better than I could.

It's not putting a line through him, but right now, he wasn't contributing on the field. As soon as Dahlhaus came on we looked more nimble, and it didn't look like we really missed him against Brisbane.

There's still time, but I wish they'd figure out what he is. For me I'm starting to think ruckman with the occasional rest up forward.
 
Vdubs said:
From Danger's comments, straight in, so here's hoping.
The continual calls here for him to play VFL, why not leave it up to the coach and MC who are doing an awesome job with our structure.
Some people just don't get it- Sav has a role, and it's to occupy a tall and good defender, and to let other KF's do their thing. Stats are meaningless in that context. He competes well, and does what he is asked to do, not to please the knockers on BF.
If he does get VFL time, fine, but to keep on harping on about it is just asking for praise if and when it finally happens; bit like our eventual demise.
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The same story I heard with Kersten week in week out.
 
Partridge said:
Said it better than I could.

It's not putting a line through him, but right now, he wasn't contributing on the field. As soon as Dahlhaus came on we looked more nimble, and it didn't look like we really missed him against Brisbane.

There's still time, but I wish they'd figure out what he is. For me I'm starting to think ruckman with the occasional rest up forward.
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Youve got to keep him as insurance for Hawkins

I think if Sav played FF - in the goal square - i think he would go allright - he would be a hard match up for the FB

And if Geel get rid of him - and he goes to an opposition team - thats where they will play him - he will go to a side who hasnt got a key forward - you look at Fremantle - theve got Lobb ( who has been bitterly dissappointing ) and Taberner who has been around forever - i think if Sav was FF at Freo - he would be better than those 2
 
Vdubs said:
From Danger's comments, straight in, so here's hoping.
The continual calls here for him to play VFL, why not leave it up to the coach and MC who are doing an awesome job with our structure.
Some people just don't get it- Sav has a role, and it's to occupy a tall and good defender, and to let other KF's do their thing. Stats are meaningless in that context. He competes well, and does what he is asked to do, not to please the knockers on BF.
If he does get VFL time, fine, but to keep on harping on about it is just asking for praise if and when it finally happens; bit like our eventual demise.
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Sorry VD, I knew you'd defend the club, but if you are a key forward and you haven't kicked a goal in 4 games, you are NOT doing your job. You still have to contribute something.
 

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Partridge said:
Sorry VD, I knew you'd defend the club, but if you are a key forward and you haven't kicked a goal in 4 games, you are NOT doing your job. You still have to contribute something.
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Says who?
Some Supporters maybe, but that counts for nothing at match selection.
Anyway, these things have a way of working out.
He will either be selected and play well v Hawks, or get a trip to the VFL, or get injured.
 
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Down at K Park said:
Some, as in 99.99999%?
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Couldn't care less about %' s like that.
We are going to need insurance for Hawkins.
And as someone said today, if he went elsewhere, we would regret it.
Good news is, our longest -serving -ever coach values him.
 
catempire said:
$1.20 to return on Easter Monday.
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Not a chance. $1.05 at the outside. I figure he can put up exactly the same numbers (and level of 'influence') until the bye without his place in the seniors coming under any threat at all.

And if we keep winning games, they'll be even less likely to pull the trigger. Roger Voudouris' 1979 smash hit was so far ahead of its time in describing what we're going to continue to see with Esava for the foreseeable at Geelong.

 
goyoucatters said:
Not a chance. $1.05 at the outside. I figure he can put up exactly the same numbers (and level of 'influence') until the bye without his place in the seniors coming under any threat at all.

And if we keep winning games, they'll be even less likely to pull the trigger. Roger Voudouris' 1979 smash hit was so far ahead of its time in describing what we're going to continue to see with Esava for the foreseeable at Geelong.

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I used the same last year for Kolo and Sav.
 

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I find the team balance with or without Sav quite fascinating.

Before the Lions game I was adamant that Blicavs had to play 100% game time down back given we had Daniher and McStay to deal with.

In the end Daniher and McStay kicked 6 between them and were certainly strong contributors - but we were able to get the win with Henry and SDK doing enough in those roles.

I still regard Blicavs as our best KPD - in terms of purely stopping an opponent - and if we were to come up against a Daniher, King, Brown type in a final I’d probably want him to play back again.

But it was quite illuminating (in a good way!) that undersized Henry and 4-game SDK showed enough against two strong forwards, and that we could utilise Blicavs in a way that was an important factor in winning.

In other words, if Henry and SDK can hold down those roles all season (also noting that not many teams have two marking threats as dangerous as Brisbane), Blicavs can continue to float and Sav’s role is redundant.
 

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