Essendon 2000 has to be the greatest Team of all Time?

[Soul_Pie]

As much as it pains me I feel like Geelong 2011 should come into discussions tbh, not because of W/L record but because of who they beat which was Collingwood who more than likely would've gone the whole season without a loss themselves and beaten Essendon's record. Literally the only team we lost to was Geelong throughout the year. Honestly that 2011 team we had was insane, and it wasn't as though we were shit in the grand final, Geelong were just unbelievable.

 

[Yoda_]

I was a little young at the time but can somebody tell me why they were so good besides their W/L record?

These are generally regarded as the best lines of teams in the 21st century:

Def: Geelong

Mid: Lions

Fwd: Hawks

So what were the bombers strengths?

Mark Mecuri came second in the Brownlow in 1999, lost his brother and (prematurely) retired at the early age of 30.

James Hird was so under rated by many, as mentioned in this thread he won a B&F off a HBF in his final year and was close to a Brownlow well after 30.

Matthew Lloyd was on another level to any other forward of the time. When looking at the “gap” to second in his Coleman years, there has been no bigger ones this century.

Dustin Fletcher, Scott Lucas, Jason Johnson, Damian Hardwick, Sean Wellman were all close to won AA honours at some point in there careers (so trajectory was on track to just how good they were/ would become).

It was the bottom 6 that always stood up, regularly fitting in Moorcroft, Steven Allesio, Paul Barnard, Dean Wallis as “role players”. They were probably better than that but that goes to show the strength they had.

 

[faible]

I was a little young at the time but can somebody tell me why they were so good besides their W/L record?

These are generally regarded as the best lines of teams in the 21st century:

Def: Geelong

Mid: Lions

Fwd: Hawks

So what were the bombers strengths?

A really strong bottom 6 players, some good physical types at a time when the game needed them, great KPPs on Lloyd, Lucas and Fletcher in particular, and an uninjured James Hird.

They were incredibly strong offensively. 8 players went at more than a goal a game.

Lloyd was a superstar, Lucas incredibly underrated. As good a KPF pairing as anyone has had for a long time - Lloyd won the Coleman with 109 and Lucas was 6th with 57.

Hird as a player has been forgotten a bit because of all the coaching stuff, but he was an absolute match winner. Kicked 36 goals (from 20 games) whilst playing as a midfielder.

Mercuri probably not rated outside of Essendon supporters but was absolute class, also kicking 32 (from 20).

Guys like Caracella, Misiti, Johnson, Blumfield and co were genuinely good footballers albeit not out and out stars.

Did I mention James Hird?

 

[Yoda_]

A really strong bottom 6 players, some good physical types at a time when the game needed them, great KPPs on Lloyd, Lucas and Fletcher in particular, and an uninjured James Hird.

They were incredibly strong offensively. 8 players went at more than a goal a game.

Lloyd was a superstar, Lucas incredibly underrated. As good a KPF pairing as anyone has had for a long time - Lloyd won the Coleman with 109 and Lucas was 6th with 57.

Hird as a player has been forgotten a bit because of all the coaching stuff, but he was an absolute match winner. Kicked 36 goals (from 20 games) whilst playing as a midfielder.

Mercuri probably not rated outside of Essendon supporters but was absolute class, also kicking 32 (from 20).

Guys like Caracella, Misiti, Johnson, Blumfield and co were genuinely good footballers albeit not out and out stars.

Did I mention James Hird?

You forget one of the toughest back 6’s we’ve seen. Mark Johnson, Damian Hardwick, Sean Wellman, Dean Wallis

 

[The Dougster]

You forget one of the toughest back 6’s we’ve seen. Mark Johnson, Damian Hardwick, Sean Wellman, Dean Wallis

Solomon

 

[HalloweenJack]

You forget one of the toughest back 6’s we’ve seen. Mark Johnson, Damian Hardwick, Sean Wellman, Dean Wallis

Fletcher was hard as teak.

 

[The Dougster]

Fletcher was hard as teak.

Those boney elbows and knees would not have tickled

 

[HalloweenJack]

...

Mercuri probably not rated outside of Essendon supporters but was absolute class, also kicking 32 (from 20).

...

Rated by me. Mercuri was a jet and a smooth mover. I always enjoyed watching him play.

As for the 2000 team it is pretty clear cut that this was the greatest season by any team in the history of the game. Great players on every line, a number of hall of famers, a potential legend (but he blew that) and a selfless bunch of players.

Geelong in 2008 had the potential to at least equal Essendon of 2000 but they stuffed up the final assignment.

 

[Shane Heard]

Average winning margin of 6 goals ..over the entire season played.

Most games were over 10 mins into the 2nd

Total domination

 

[Bunk Moreland]

I was a little young at the time but can somebody tell me why they were so good besides their W/L record?

These are generally regarded as the best lines of teams in the 21st century:

Def: Geelong

Mid: Lions

Fwd: Hawks

So what were the bombers strengths?

2000 Bombers well and truly in the discussion for the backline and forward line there.

2000 Lloyd was the equal of Buddy, Lucas was the equal of Roughead… then throw in Mercuri - who was a bee’s dick from the Brownlow the previous year - and Hird, one of the best players of all time.

Average score of 130+ points for the year. It was insane.

 

[HirdsTheWord]

I was a little young at the time but can somebody tell me why they were so good besides their W/L record?

These are generally regarded as the best lines of teams in the 21st century:

Def: Geelong

Mid: Lions

Fwd: Hawks

So what were the bombers strengths?

Essendon went the entire season avging something like 50 points as a winning margin.

Essendon didn’t just have a the best w/l record basically of all time while winning a flag, They basically annihilated everyone every game

 

[HirdsTheWord]

As much as it pains me I feel like Geelong 2011 should come into discussions tbh, not because of W/L record but because of who they beat which was Collingwood who more than likely would've gone the whole season without a loss themselves and beaten Essendon's record. Literally the only team we lost to was Geelong throughout the year. Honestly that 2011 team we had was insane, and it wasn't as though we were s**t in the grand final, Geelong were just unbelievable.

Isn’t much of a discussion

You don’t win the grand final, you can’t claim to have the best season ever.

Essendon 2000>

Even if geelong tied them for w/l, essendon still beat teams on avg for the entire year by 9 goals. Would still be classed as better for a single season

 

[HirdsTheWord]

Average winning margin of 6 goals ..over the entire season played.

Most games were over 10 mins into the 2nd

Total domination

Was actually closer to 9 goals as an avg winning margin. Was about 51 points

 

[NetworkNerd]

If you rate a champion H&A season side as 19 wins and or percentage of 150+%, in the AFL Era

West Coast 1991
Carlton 1995
Essendon 2000
Geelong 2007
Geelong 2008
St Kilda 2009
Collingwood 2011
Geelong 2011
Hawthorn 2012
Hawthorn 2013
Hawthorn 2015
Sydney 2016

6 didn't even win the flag. That leaves
Carlton 1995
Essendon 2000
Geelong 2007
Geelong 2011
Hawthorn 2013
Hawthorn 2015

Hawks 2015 dropped 6 games and finished 3rd. Hawks 2013 had a lowish percentage of 135. They are out.

Carlton 1995
Essendon 2000
Geelong 2007
Geelong 2011

Essendon 2000 is the best of that 4 imo.

 

[HirdsTheWord]

If you rate a champion H&A season side as 19 wins and or percentage of 150+%, in the AFL Era

West Coast 1991
Carlton 1995
Essendon 2000
Geelong 2007
Geelong 2008
St Kilda 2009
Collingwood 2011
Geelong 2011
Hawthorn 2012
Hawthorn 2013
Hawthorn 2015
Sydney 2016

6 didn't even win the flag. That leaves
Carlton 1995
Essendon 2000
Geelong 2007
Geelong 2011
Hawthorn 2013
Hawthorn 2015

Hawks 2015 dropped 6 games and finished 3rd. Hawks 2013 had a lowish percentage of 135. They are out.

Carlton 1995
Essendon 2000
Geelong 2007
Geelong 2011

Essendon 2000 is the best of that 4 imo.

There's really 3 questions that make the basic metric

What was the W/L
Did they win the Flag
What was their % / Avg winning margin.

Essendon 2000 is just the clear call for best season ever. And it isn't close.

 

[Worm4]

There's really 3 questions that make the basic metric

What was the W/L
Did they win the Flag
What was their % / Avg winning margin.

Essendon 2000 is just the clear call for best season ever. And it isn't close.

I can't believe they lost to the doggies during the season proper . Other than that, they were frigging awesome and unstoppable

 

[the PILL]

A really strong bottom 6 players, some good physical types at a time when the game needed them, great KPPs on Lloyd, Lucas and Fletcher in particular, and an uninjured James Hird.

They were incredibly strong offensively. 8 players went at more than a goal a game.

Lloyd was a superstar, Lucas incredibly underrated. As good a KPF pairing as anyone has had for a long time - Lloyd won the Coleman with 109 and Lucas was 6th with 57.

Hird as a player has been forgotten a bit because of all the coaching stuff, but he was an absolute match winner. Kicked 36 goals (from 20 games) whilst playing as a midfielder.

Mercuri probably not rated outside of Essendon supporters but was absolute class, also kicking 32 (from 20).

Guys like Caracella, Misiti, Johnson, Blumfield and co were genuinely good footballers albeit not out and out stars.

Did I mention James Hird?

Good post... I also think a bit of the icing on the cake was getting John Barnes back... If you watch that season back he was everywhere linking up.

 

[Vindicater]

Should have won the year before but had a surprise loss to Carlton in the prelim.

I know a player from that group quite well and he always talks about how he never saw a group more driven for longer to prove themselves.

He also feels like they should have won in 2001 as well apart from injuries but knows that was their last hurrah.

 

[GoldbergsGold]

The Essendon 2000 team backed up largely unchanged in 2001 and ran into a superior Lions team who beat them easy on their way to 3 flags, 4 GFs in a row.

I'd take those Brissy teams over 2000 Essendon as a stronger outfit.

Those teams were hard, skillful and pretty bombproof;

Key backs - Michael, Leppitsch, White
Other backs - Johnson, Scott, Scott,
Key forwards - Lynch, Brown, Bradshaw
Mids/forwards - Voss, Black, Akermanis, Lappin, Power, Mcrae, Ashcroft, Hart, Notting
Rucks - Charman, Keating, McDonald
Wrecking ball utilities - Pike, Headland

1 season is a big difference, though, Essendon in 2001 were vastly inferior to their 2000 side, much like their 2002 side was much more inferior to their 2001 side. Essendon were far more consistent in 2000 than Brisbane were in any given season in 2001-2003, but Brisbane were able to make it up in finals for much longer.

 

[GoldbergsGold]

were the best team in 1999

This is one of the biggest myths, since North Melbourne were the most hungry team of 1999, because of their 1998 GF disaster and Essendon couldn't finish off Carlton who lost by 73 points in the first round of finals. I think Essendon lose that GF even if they make it in, North were much more experienced and driven, Essendon didn't take things seriously until they lost that prelim and made 2000 their year because of it.

 

[Bunk Moreland]

This is one of the biggest myths, since North Melbourne were the most hungry team of 1999, because of their 1998 GF disaster and Essendon couldn't finish off Carlton who lost by 73 points in the first round of finals. I think Essendon lose that GF even if they make it in, North were much more experienced and driven, Essendon didn't take things seriously until they lost that prelim and made 2000 their year because of it.

They can be as hungry as they want, they couldn’t beat Essendon 1999-2001.

6 meetings, Essendon went 6-0

141 - 106
158 - 132
119 - 70
198 - 73
146 - 61
171 - 159

Essendon average score of 156.

Average winning margin of 55 points.

It wasn’t even close.

Pagan and North refused to shut the game down against Essendon, they insisted on going head-to-head in a shootout and the above is what happened when you went head to head in a shootout with that team. It had a forward line of Lloyd, Lucas, Hird, Mercuri, Bewick and others plus goalkicking midfielders. If you gave them space they blew you off the park.

There was that one game in 1999 when Carey kicked 10 in one of the most amazing individual games you’d see, it didn’t matter, they were still comfortably beaten.

It’s hardly a myth, as all the evidence shows, they were nowhere near Essendon over that three-year period.

They got lucky in 1999, good luck to them, they got the cup and wouldn’t give a shit. There’s no myth though, Essendon constantly destroyed them.

 

[GoldbergsGold]

They can be as hungry as they want, they couldn’t beat Essendon 1999-2001.

6 meetings, Essendon went 6-0

141 - 106
158 - 132
119 - 70
198 - 73
146 - 61
171 - 159

Essendon average score of 156.

Average winning margin of 55 points.

It wasn’t even close.

Pagan and North refused to shut the game down against Essendon, they insisted on going head-to-head in a shootout and the above is what happened when you went head to head in a shootout with that team. It had a forward line of Lloyd, Lucas, Hird, Mercuri, Bewick and others plus goalkicking midfielders. If you gave them space they blew you off the park.

There was that one game in 1999 when Carey kicked 10 in one of the most amazing individual games you’d see, it didn’t matter, they were still comfortably beaten.

It’s hardly a myth, as all the evidence shows, they were nowhere near Essendon over that three-year period.

They got lucky in 1999, good luck to them, they got the cup and wouldn’t give a shit. There’s no myth though, Essendon constantly destroyed them.

It was only like 5-6 goal wins, wasn't "destroying them" and it was only in the 1999 home and away season, North Melbourne did beat Essendon a number of times throughout the late 90s, too, like in that 1998 qualifying final. There's also been teams like Sydney 2005 who lost to their grand final opponent twice in the same season and still beat them in the grand final. Home and away season as a template isn't really valid, since finals is a completely different dynamic, we saw it with Port vs Sydney, last season, Port kept beating Sydney for 8 seasons straight until they met in finals. I think the prelim showed Essendon just weren't mature enough to compete for the premiership, a lot of teams have to go through heartache to mature to that premiership level. North were the hungriest team of 1999 because of the 1998 GF, similar to Essendon in 2000 because of the 1999 prelim.

 

[My Tilly]

Best single season of all time without question. It was an amazing side, had absolutely everything… if anything you’d say perhaps not a super ruckman, but Barnes was more than handy.

I often thought it was a perfect match when Barnes returned to Essendon.
His style of game complemented you guys in a way no other ruck would.
For many years, Bombers had lumbering rucks and Barnes was essentially like another Adam Goodes (minus the high possession numbers).

Always felt so happy for him winning a premiership.

 

[The Dark]

This is one of the biggest myths, since North Melbourne were the most hungry team of 1999, because of their 1998 GF disaster and Essendon couldn't finish off Carlton who lost by 73 points in the first round of finals. I think Essendon lose that GF even if they make it in, North were much more experienced and driven, Essendon didn't take things seriously until they lost that prelim and made 2000 their year because of it.

This x a zillion.

Essendon the Lleyton Hewitt of footy.

Snagged one in between two great dynasties ... North in the 90s and Brissy threepeat.

 

[StillAtLarge]

Mercuri probably not rated outside of Essendon supporters but was absolute class, also kicking 32 (from 20).

Why do people say stuff like this? Anyone who followed footy in the late 90s knows Mercuri was one of the best players in the league