Essendon 2011

[GarnerSmash]

Teams around you such as Richmond, North, Port, Adelaide and Melbourne all have greater scope for improvement. All things being equal most of these clubs should finish ahead of the Bombers in 2011 and all of them have the scope to be better long term due to strong drafting. Essendon have a very promising spine but appear to lack depth through the midfield rotations which is where premierships are won these days. Nothing is set in stone obviously with player development being more important than draft position, but the Bombers need a few more options trought hte middle of the park.

 

[vjknight]

I don't think the bombers are as bad as people are making out...however if they are smart they will bottom out a bit this year.

Hird surely has a licence to play some kids and reform the game-plan...so you can't expect results.


Surely the priority would be to get games into Heppell and Melksham as well as continuiing to frame the defence and forward line with guys like Danniher, Hurley and Gumbleton getting more games under their belts.


I think Essendon should look to get a top 10 pick again, treat 2011 as a rebuilding year and put a greater emphasis on 2012 & 2013

Realistically, this side has too many holes in it to be a contender...so there's no poing aiming to be middle of the table. The smart thing to do would be to bottom out this year.


So with that in mind, I have very low expectations for the Bombers in 2011. I'd put them bottom 4.

But do you want to go forward this year??? Surely a top 10 pick in a compromised draft would be beneficial. If I were an Essendon fan, I'd be satisfied with a 14th place finish with a stack of new kids getting a run an a few experiments with players.

I think you're right about licence to rebuild etc. You don't give a guy 3 or 4 years then worry about the 1st year.

The next question is, who can we actually play who'd be keeping a good kid down? I can't find that many. Our best side has Hille, Fletch, McVeigh pretty much set in stone.

groundhog day.

2007 B&F said so much. hird, lloyd, lucas, fletcher from memory dominated. 4 old guys. 3 are gone, the other is good but geez its a shame he's still ya key. the next tier havent come on - excluding watson. and he's no star. good hard worker, but no star. the bombers have good kids, but so does everyone. who are the ones who are better than other clubs kids.

hirds appointment is also the key - 4 years, not 3. 1st year run them all, see what they have. sure some wins, but expect some shocking losses too. 2nd year, having culled the list to death, bottom out and get 2 years of good draft picks. offer up anyone not in the top 5 at the club for more picks. year 3 (2013) finally get some output from the new batch. year 4 be a mid ladder team. hird gets to renew, and see where he can take them.

 

[Kings Army]

Basing off the assumption that we're not god-awful bad, just 10th-12th 'meh':
I'd rather go for the wins & cop pick 14 or 16 or whatever; than "aim for" pick 6 or 8.

If it were the bad old days, when you could get pick 1 & 3 or whatever... maybe.

Now that is a good post - end of the day an extra 4 wins you get to enjoy 4 more weekends when you team celebrate a win. Draft pick 8 or 16 - you are still rolling the dice.

The great thing about season 2010 - no tanking!

 

[Slattery_20]

Thats all well and good, but I in a completely unbiased opinion dont believe Knights was the problem. Where as Polo and Tambling were definately part of our problems but this isn't about Richmond.

No one person or factor was the problem.
The list was young, hit by injuries, lacking midfield class & any sort of senior bodies by about rd 12.
Knights' game-plan was still shite and half the players had given up on it. He simply wasn't worth going on with.
The list is being worked on. Probably about 1/2 way there in terms of midfield; still needs work on the smaller spots & flanks particularly forward. Talls look OK. Injuries happen, slowly improving guys like Gumby & Dempsey; Cormack's been a big help in that regard. Bodies & experience only come with time.

But hopefully now, the coaching set-up is about right.

 

[HyperAgressiveDonk]

groundhog day.

2007 B&F said so much. hird, lloyd, lucas, fletcher from memory dominated. 4 old guys. 3 are gone, the other is good but geez its a shame he's still ya key. the next tier havent come on - excluding watson. and he's no star. good hard worker, but no star. the bombers have good kids, but so does everyone. who are the ones who are better than other clubs kids.

hirds appointment is also the key - 4 years, not 3. 1st year run them all, see what they have. sure some wins, but expect some shocking losses too. 2nd year, having culled the list to death, bottom out and get 2 years of good draft picks. offer up anyone not in the top 5 at the club for more picks. year 3 (2013) finally get some output from the new batch. year 4 be a mid ladder team. hird gets to renew, and see where he can take them.

You think they need another rebuild by the sounds of it. I'm not so sure on that.

They have some good young kids on the list at the moment that should come on. The problem they will face is, if these kids don't develop like they should, the next few drafts are comprimised. They could be staring down the barrell of being similair to Carlton of the noughties.

I don't think it will happen that way because I think the kids they got now will come on, but if they don't....

 

[Slattery_20]

groundhog day.

2007 B&F said so much. hird, lloyd, lucas, fletcher from memory dominated. 4 old guys. 3 are gone, the other is good but geez its a shame he's still ya key. the next tier havent come on - excluding watson. and he's no star. good hard worker, but no star. the bombers have good kids, but so does everyone. who are the ones who are better than other clubs kids.

I'm struggling to see a relevance here.
Watson, 25yo, (ages OTOH) won it in a canter over Hocking 22yo, Winders 26yo, Fletch 34yo, Stanton 25yo, NLM 28yo, McVeigh 29yo, Howlett 21yo, Davey 25yo & Monfries 24yo the top 10.

 

[Kings Army]

You think they need another rebuild by the sounds of it. I'm not so sure on that.

They have some good young kids on the list at the moment that should come on. The problem they will face is, if these kids don't develop like they should, the next few drafts are comprimised. They could be staring down the barrell of being similair to Carlton of the noughties.

I don't think it will happen that way because I think the kids they got now will come on, but if they don't....

Yeah but there good young players are KPP. Hurley, Pears and Gumby could be elite. They just need to get some mids in - if they do that they might be ok. KPP start to come good mid 20's where as quality mids can be good from early 20's. Timing could be good if they get the mids.

 

[QuietB]

I see where you're coming from... but hot tip? This is gunna end in a shit-fight.
$1.01 favourite.

Clearly Knights (& Campo too, "organising" the midfield) was a fair factor in our lack of performance especially in the last 8 weeks last year. People are utterly discounting that for some reason; and a lot of them were the most strident about how crap he was anyway.

Yeah, the list's not great. Too much to Paddy in the ruck, no leadership, not much of a forward line and no cohesion in the backline - pretty obvious stuff.
But we've still beaten probably 12 or 13 teams over the last 2 years, despite the utterly mad game plan.
People don't give Watson, Stanton, Howlett anywhere near enough credit. Solid footsoldiers.

I suspect we'll improve in some areas, and lose out in others [namely, play tighter but lose a bit of that explosive attack-from-anywhere] and get about 8 wins.

Unlike Dees, Bris or Crows etc we haven't lost anyone useful.

Get Hille, Myers, Pears, Fletch, Winderlich, Jetta etc fit all year, I'd almost guarantee we won't go backwards. All of those guys hit good form then went down.
Will we go forwards; I can't say.

That utterly mad game plan may be the reason you slide further. Despite the fact that it was utterly mad as you say, when it worked it won essendon games. With a much more defensive game plan it will be interesting to see if the bombers can still kick winning scores.

There are lots and lots of unknowns with the bombers. It takes all sides a few years to settle into a new game style and the bombers will be no different. They will finish somewhere around the same as last year give or take a few spots on the ladder.

 

[Rustin Cohle]

"Young improving list."

The problem is that every other team in the 2010 bottom eight bar Brisbane and possibly West Coast are in the same position - and all have better lists than Essendon.

 

[vjknight]

I'm struggling to see a relevance here.
Watson, 25yo, (ages OTOH) won it in a canter over Hocking 22yo, Winders 26yo, Fletch 34yo, Stanton 25yo, NLM 28yo, McVeigh 29yo, Howlett 21yo, Davey 25yo & Monfries 24yo the top 10.

i said 2007, have you quoted 2010 B&F results ?

and the rest answers the question. no worldbeaters there.

 

[volders]

"Young improving list."

The problem is that every other team in the 2010 bottom eight bar Brisbane and possibly West Coast are in the same position - and all have better lists than Essendon.

Yup, this. Don't see Dons going backwards at all, just not going as far forward as a host of other teams will.

 

[Slattery_20]

i said 2007, have you quoted 2010 B&F results ?

and the rest answers the question. no worldbeaters there.

Other than pointing out the bleeding obvious - that the '07 crop of youngsters weren't as good as 4 all-time greats of the club - what was your point???

 

[vjknight]

Other than pointing out the bleeding obvious - that the '07 crop of youngsters weren't as good as 4 all-time greats of the club - what was your point???

whats the word im seeking.............facepalm.

those players who are the keys currently - where were they ?

how could 4 ageing club legends still be dominating the B&F ?

good clubs dont let that happen. they get a mix of young, middle & old to run & direct the team, not just the old timers. it set the scene for what you have now. and right in the middle of a poor drafting period.

 

[hank31]

Yup, this. Don't see Dons going backwards at all, just not going as far forward as a host of other teams will.

See this is utter crap and i wont wear it.
What says that we have worse kids than any of the other young sides in the bottom half of the 8?

BF opinion?

Media Misconception?

Draft positions?

I think we are on par if not ahead of a hell of a lot of sides that were in the bottom 8 last year.

As kings army said above, we get the mids(we have already made inroads here, some people just dont see it because theyre not over hyped no1 DPs), they will hit their straps at the same time as our talls and Essendons youngsters could turn out to be better than the rest of the bottom 8s.

I dont care what anyone says, our list is in no where near as bad of shape as the common conception says.

Get rid of the dead wood next year, draft another set of talented mids and we are well on our way!

 

[Slattery_20]

whats the word im seeking.............facepalm.

those players who are the keys currently - where were they ?

how could 4 ageing club legends still be dominating the B&F ?

You can type as many "facepalms" as you like. You haven't explained your point other than 'Kevin Sheedy made a few mistakes in his last couple of years.'.
Bleedin' obvious hindsight board.

Those 4 guys placed Because they were better than anyone else we had... surely not hard to grasp.
Watson was about 6th. Stanton about 8th. If McPhee hadn't ****ed us, he'd be still in the side just and he finished top 10 as well.
The mistake was guys like Pev/JJ/Campo who really weren't much chop getting so many games.

A lot of the guys we are relying on for big contributors now & into the future - Ryder, Pears, Zaha, Hurley Melksham Howlett etc - were either not around or untried.
Again, bleedin' obvious hindsight board.

The thread topic is Essendon 2011. There are others on Sheedys mistakes.

 

[Slattery_20]

Yup, this. Don't see Dons going backwards at all, just not going as far forward as a host of other teams will.

Quite possible.

Certainly your most impressive youngsters are more impressive than ours on exposed form. IMHO we've got comparable un-seen, or un-tapped potential than you lot or Richmond.
Guys like Myers & Jetta could turn it around in a big way. Even Reimers, maybe. Big risks attached too; but I wouldn't rule either out.

 

[Ambrosia]

I agree that our midfield is a weakness but I fail to see how it is easily the worst in the afl. I think it is about on par with Richmond's and West Coast's.

Richmond Midfielders - Cotchin, Edwards, Jackson, Morton, Martin, Foley, Houli, Grigg, Tuck, Webberley, Hislop, White

West Coast Midfielders - Kerr, Priddis, Masten, Ebert, Dalzeil, Rosa, Selwood's, Smith, Shuey, Stevens, Hams.

Essendon Midfielders - Watson, Stanton, Winderlich, Zaharakis, Prismall, Hocking, Colyer, Melksham, Jetta, Howlett, NLM, Myers, Welsh.

How is our midfield obviously worse than Richmond's and West Coast's?

 

[Wernumberone]

Where is gopower?

Can't believe he has let an opportunity like this slip for so long....

 

[Slattery_20]

That utterly mad game plan may be the reason you slide further. Despite the fact that it was utterly mad as you say, when it worked it won essendon games. With a much more defensive game plan it will be interesting to see if the bombers can still kick winning scores.

There are lots and lots of unknowns with the bombers. It takes all sides a few years to settle into a new game style and the bombers will be no different. They will finish somewhere around the same as last year give or take a few spots on the ladder.

Fair point.
I tend to think the players' commitment to the game-plan is just as important as the game-plan itself.
They definitely weren't believing in it by the 2nd half of the year. Almost anything/anyone will initially - I think - be better than that.

 

[brad]

Your username is a great start as to why Essendon suck.

Add players of the ilk of Stanton and Monfries to the mix, and there's not much reason to be buoyant about the Bombers.

It must have really upset you last season when this team that "sucks" so much knocked off your top 4 team.

 

[TownleyTime]

Along with WC, they have the worst midfield in the AFL. Bottom 4 certs.

 

[SM]

coz u suk.

Nah seriously though, Essendon's midfield is quite weak, and while they have tall timber sprouting like, well, trees, some of them are a bit shakey to say the least (see: Gumbleton, Neagle, Pears). For them to take any sort of step forward this year, a few midfielders will need to break through and the whole team to come together under Hird in a way they didn't under Knight.

 

[TeamHurley]

Will play finals this year.

 

[HyperAgressiveDonk]

Will play finals this year.

Out of the sides that made the 8 last year. Who do you think you're better than?

 

[Rustin Cohle]

Will play finals this year.

It's a shame threads like this can't be bumped at the end of the year.

Nah seriously though, Essendon's midfield is quite weak, and while they have tall timber sprouting like, well, trees, some of them are a bit shakey to say the least (see: Gumbleton, Neagle, Pears). For them to take any sort of step forward this year, a few midfielders will need to break through and the whole team to come together under Hird in a way they didn't under Knight.

inb4 shitstorm.