Essendon 2011

[HyperAgressiveDonk]

Dont be silly, he is not an 'A' grader nor will he ever be eilite but he can play no doubt

I disagree and agree. He is an A Grader, but he will never be elite though you would think, unless he improves out of sight.

Elite is like the best of the best. Hayes, Franklin, Swan, Ablett, Hodge, Lake, Judd etc. There are about 20 elite players in the comp and considering Jobe has never been AA, never won any indivdual honour, never been considered in the top 25 players in the comp, he is no chance at being recognised as elite on current form.

Top player though and would love him at Hawthorn

 

[Wernumberone]

I don't think there is a more overrated player, by it's own group of supporters, than Watson. He is a solid B Grader, nothing more, nothing else. Essendon fans try to talk him up as elite.

Then how was he named in the All Australian squad?

Maybe the selection panel are all Essendon supporters

There are more overrated players than Jobe and most of them are Collingwood players who because they won a GF are now supposedly living legends.

You will however learn this year how average many of them are as your game plan premiership has now been revealed and scrutinized.

 

[Wernumberone]

I disagree and agree. He is an A Grader, though he would be at the lower end of the scale of A graders. He will never be elite though you would think.

Elite is like the best of the best. Hayes, Franklin, Swan, Ablett, Hodge, Lake, Judd etc. There are about 20 elite players in the comp and considering Jobe has never been AA, never won any indivdual honour, never been connsidered in the top 25 players in the comp, he is no chance at being recognised as elite.

Top player though and would love him at Hawthorn

He was named in the AA squad (I know that doesn't make him AA) and won the last 2 B&F's.

 

[Slattery_20]

If you start 3-3 you will not finish bottom 4. Massive if!!

As much as I like our first 2 months, there's a spell of about 4 weeks mid-year where I think we have you lot, two good sides & a subi trip, which I can only really see as 4 straight losses.
I've got us going to about 4-5 from our first 10, then none from those 4 hard weeks, then coming home with another 3-4 from the last 8. Which gives me ~8W, probably ~10th.

Who really knows.

 

[HyperAgressiveDonk]

He was named in the AA squad (I know that doesn't make him AA) and won the clubs B&F.

Yeah he is a class player and reminds a lot of Sam Mitchell. Sam Mitchell has always kinda been considered somewhere between the 20 to 40th best player in the comp. He is a solid A grader over a long period, without ever becoming an elite superstar like Hodge and Franklin have.

Both very similair in and under players who are good for a lot of clearances and 26+ touches a game. What probably has Mitchell slightly ahead of Watson is his disposal on both feet. Watson still has a lot of time to rectify that and he is getting better and better in that regard.

 

[Silvagnis]

I actually don't think you need a star or a few stars to be a success. They are just cream on top of the cake as it were. If you have a list that is even across it, then you are more likely to be successful - as it means the contributions to it are even and there are no passengers, a risk in relying on too few (Judd at Carlton the prime example).

You're just making excuses for your lack of a superstar and to convince yourself that your midfield will be good enough. If Swan and Jolly had not played last year, the Saints would have won the flag without them playing in the first GF. The recruitment of two veterans in Ball and Jolly was a "tipping point" that took the Pies from being a preliminary final side to a Grand Finalist and Premier. Ball frees up their stars and second tier to play inside and outside.

If the Bombers lose Watson like Geelong have lost Ablett, they could easily challenge WC for the spoon. Having stars and veterans takes the pressure off your younger players whilst they develop. With Stevens injured in 2007, Murphy struggled with the extra attention he received as our number one midfielder.

They still lack an A grader who can influence matches. The Pies' cream is Didak playing high half forward. Essendon lack a Didak, Steve Johnson, Akermanis or a Rioli who have stepped up in September to win them games. Ryder has skill and a lot of talent, but as of this moment, doesn't have the consistency and intensity of Kreuzer who is one of his contemporaries.

 

[TownleyTime]

He was named in the AA squad (I know that doesn't make him AA) and won the last 2 B&F's.

Travis Cloke has also been named in that same squad. I don't think you will find too many supporters suggesting that he is an A Grader b/c of it.

 

[MightyTiger]

I'm sorry but if Jobe is an A grader, then Shane Tuck is A grade material.

 

[Wernumberone]

Yeah he is a class player and reminds a lot of Sam Mitchell. Sam Mitchell has always kinda been considered somewhere between the 20 to 40th best player in the comp. He is a solid A grader over a long period, without ever becoming an elite superstar like Hodge and Franklin have.

Both very similair in and under players who are good for a lot of clearances and 26+ touches a game. What probably has Mitchell slightly ahead of Watson is his disposal on both feet. Watson still has a lot of time to rectify that and he is getting better and better in that regard.

I agree that they are both very similar players and both not at the top of the elite level however i rate Watson higher than Mitchell for one big reason.

He is carrying the midfield virtually on his own.

Mitchell is a far better kick of the ball and it's difficult to determine if he is actually left or right footed. Jobe virtually doesn't have a left foot but his kicking has improved out of sight over the last 2 years, contrary to BF experts/trolls, but is still behind Mitchell.

Jobe is however a better ball winner and better in very close and heavy traffic. In fact when it comes to ball winning in tight he is in the very very elite in the league and better than each of those very elite players you named but it takes more than one talent to be named as elite.

Back to my original point. Jobe has no class help like Mitchell. He gets little rest yet plods off to every stoppage and wins hard ball time after time with little to no help.

We don't have a ball winning combo like Cross/Boyd, Ablett/Selwood, Mitchell/Sewell, Swan/Backpedelberry, Hayes/Goddard etc etc. so he has had to do it all on his own and has succeeded in doing so brilliantly and i'm not so sure how good all of those other combos would be if they had to do it on their own in a poor team....

 

[DapperDon]

I'm sorry but if Jobe is an A grader, then Shane Tuck is A grade material.

Really? You place Tuck in Jobe's category? I'm being dead serious here, do you really think Tuck plays the same level of football as Watson?

 

[HyperAgressiveDonk]

I agree that they are both very similar players and both not at the top of the elite level however i rate Watson higher than Mitchell for one big reason.

He is carrying the midfield virtually on his own.

Mitchell is a far better kick of the ball and it's difficult to determine if he is actually left or right footed. Jobe virtually doesn't have a left foot but his kicking has improved out of sight over the last 2 years, contrary to BF experts/trolls, but is still behind Mitchell.

Jobe is however a better ball winner and better in very close and heavy traffic. In fact when it comes to ball winning in tight he is in the very very elite in the league and better than each of those very elite players you named but it takes more than one talent to be named as elite.

Back to my original point. Jobe has no class help like Mitchell. He gets little rest yet plods off to every stoppage and wins hard ball time after time with little to no help.

We don't have a ball winning combo like Cross/Boyd, Ablett/Selwood, Mitchell/Sewell, Swan/Backpedelberry, Hayes/Goddard etc etc. so he has had to do it all on his own and has succeeded in doing so brilliantly and i'm not so sure how good all of those other combos would be if they had to do it on their own in a poor team....

Mitchell was known as the "extractor" and led the league in clearances for and was reguarly in the top 5 for years.

Even this year, which hasn't been Mitchells best year, his stats are still as good as Watson, who has arguably had his best year!

Clearances -

Watson - 5.5
Mitchell - 6.0

Contested Posessions -

Watson - 13.9
Mitchell - 13.6

1st Possesion -

Watson - 7.8
Mitchell - 7.4


If we were to take these stats from Mitchells best year and compare it to Watsons best year, Mitchell would win in a canter

 

[Wernumberone]

Mitchell was known as the "extractor" and led the league in clearances for and was reguarly in the top 5 for years.

Even this year, which hasn't been Mitchells best year, his stats are still as good as Watson, who has arguably had his best year!

Clearances -

Watson - 5.5
Mitchell - 6.0

Contested Posessions -

Watson - 13.9
Mitchell - 13.6

1st Possesion -

Watson - 7.8
Mitchell - 7.4


If we were to take these stats from Mitchells best year and compare it to Watsons best year, Mitchell would win in a canter

I don't really want to get into an argument over Mitchell and Watson but those stats don't prove anything other than your game plan provides far more stoppages than ours.

I didn't mean to slight Mitchell as he is clearly a very good player.

 

[HyperAgressiveDonk]

I don't really want to get into an argument over Mitchell and Watson but those stats don't prove anything other than your game plan provides far more stoppages than ours.

I didn't mean to slight Mitchell as he is clearly a very good player.

Stop being level headed, composed and mature! It's not allowed on BF

Cool, cool. I think they are pretty similair and even players in a lot of ways. Watson is only 25 now, so if Essendon "get good" in the next 3 years, it will be interesting to see what level he can take his game to with decent support.

 

[MightyTiger]

Really? You place Tuck in Jobe's category? I'm being dead serious here, do you really think Tuck plays the same level of football as Watson?

I certainly do, they are basically the same player both are clearance machines who aren't very good kicks but do one thing very well and that is win clearances.

Watson stats for
Averages
Disposals : 27.5
Kicks : 10.2
Marks : 3.6
Handballs : 17.3
Tackles : 5.3
Clearances : 5.5
I50s : 2.5
Cont Possessions : 13.9
1%ers : 4.9
​

2010 Tucks stats for 2010
Averages
Disposals : 25.7
Kicks : 11.5
Marks : 4.6
Handballs : 14.2
Tackles : 5.2
Clearances : 4.6
I50s : 3.3
Cont Possessions : 13.2
1%ers : 6.3

Tuck would have to be the most under appreciated player in the entire AFL, especially by Tiger supporters, who simply think because he can't kick very well hes no good to the team.

 

[Jobe Watson]

I'm sorry but if Jobe is an A grader, then Shane Tuck is A grade material.

The same Shane Tuck Richmond got very close to delisting/trading a year ago?

 

[Knight Ryders]

Ryder has skill and a lot of talent, but as of this moment, doesn't have the consistency and intensity of Kreuzer who is one of his contemporaries.

You are right on his intensity, but on output, I wouldn't have thought that Kreuzer has been better than Ryder.

 

[Knight Ryders]

Tuck is under rated, but the difference between the two is that Watson has more time in clearances to be more creative and create more chances as a consequence.

 

[MightyTiger]

The same Shane Tuck Richmond got very close to delisting/trading a year ago?

And your point is? Tuck showed in 2010 that he is still a very good midfielder whether or not you appreciate what he does is up to the person, but purely from a stats perspective and having watched a lot of Tuck and Watson in 2010 there really isn't that much that separates the two.

If I was to pick 1 to be on my team, it would obviously be Watson due to him being younger, but there is no doubt in my mind that Tuck is severely underrated .

 

[The Fact]

You are right on his intensity, but on output, I wouldn't have thought that Kreuzer has been better than Ryder.

OOOo i don't know, ryder is a bit better up forward but Kreuzer is better around the ground and would swap him for ryder in a heart beat

 

[TeamHurley]

And your point is? Tuck showed in 2010 that he is still a very good midfielder whether or not you appreciate what he does is up to the person, but purely from a stats perspective and having watched a lot of Tuck and Watson in 2010 there really isn't that much that separates the two.

If I was to pick 1 to be on my team, it would obviously be Watson due to him being younger, but there is no doubt in my mind that Tuck is severely underrated .

hahahaha

 

[Hawks2011]

Hird will be sacked within the first 10 weeks

 

[MightyTiger]

hahahaha

Insightful and straight to the point, I like thank you for your effort, try to keep it shorter next time though.

 

[Smyth94]

I don't think the bombers are as bad as people are making out...however if they are smart they will bottom out a bit this year.

Hird surely has a licence to play some kids and reform the game-plan...so you can't expect results

This probably isn't what you meant but of all the short comings of Knights, not playing the "kids" wasn't one of them - if you looked at the average games played of our 22 week-in, week-out over the 2009 and 2010 seasons, you'll find that it was one of the least experienced across the whole competition.

 

[Rustof]

So if Hird does the same then what was the point of sacking Knights?

 

[Smyth94]

So if Hird does the same then what was the point of sacking Knights?

You're joking right?