Essendon 2021

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HirdsTheWord

OH WE'RE FROM DIVER LAND
Jun 19, 2014
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Not very good, Will be a bonus if Mcgrath/Ridley continue to become very good AFL players and/or take the next step, If the defense can keep growing as well, Losing Saad really hurts and I dont think people fully Grasp how good he is

What else did they lose? Daniher won them a game (I know, I know :() but he's hardly played in 2 years, Orazio was on good coin and under-performing as well.

They lost probably 1.2M dollars of players who contributed to sweet F all to the club. The loss of Bellchambers/Saad is much more brutal then two forwards who hardly played
Saad was the only legitimate loss to us.

TBC was as cooked as you can get.
 

juss

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They've got a few handy players, I think they will have a pretty typical year for a non-finals side, a lot of disappointment, a few players unearthed that give hope for the future, and will cause the odd unexpected upset against a high ranked side.

For 2021 I'd probably have their range as bottom 4 - about 11th at best.
 

evo

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We'll maybe some of you bomber fans may need an Essendon posters only thread on ypur own board.
Bomber fans are so accustomed to picking up the Herald-Sun each day and reading what a fantastic list they have - particularly in the off season- that it comes at a bit of a shock when they come on Bigfooty and their list is being mocked.
 

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owen87

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We'll maybe some of you bomber fans may need an Essendon posters only thread on ypur own board.
Plenty of non-Essendon people seem to be able to provide reasonable posting on the topic. Those people get pretty reasonable replies in return.
 

owen87

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They've got a few handy players, I think they will have a pretty typical year for a non-finals side, a lot of disappointment, a few players unearthed that give hope for the future, and will cause the odd unexpected upset against a high ranked side.

For 2021 I'd probably have their range as bottom 4 - about 11th at best.
Sounds about right to me; Saad is certainly an on-field loss, the rest barely contributed last year so it's not like we're going to be significantly worse due to Daniher not being around. If anything I think it'll be a positive as they'll need to plan ball movement for a forward-line without him.

I don't think any of the bottom 6 - 8 sides look like they'll be total basket-cases without a really poor injury run (Hawthorn currently looks to be under pressure on that front).
 

Milanista28

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Two metre potato and Stewart to support Stringer in the forward line. Essendon in for a world of pain for the next couple of years. Consecutive wooden spoons a real posssibility.
Collingwood made a grand final with Cox and Mihocek as their main key forwards, System > Personnel, our problem that we need to fix is system.
 

owen87

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Two metre potato and Stewart to support Stringer in the forward line. Essendon in for a world of pain for the next couple of years. Consecutive wooden spoons a real posssibility.
You know Wright averages about the same goals per game as Naughton when both play as forwards right?
 

SimpkinByTheDockOfTheBay

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So more lazy commentary, as expected.

Young developing KPP's haven't played many games ahead of mature KPP's. Shocking.

Round and round we go.



Seems to be a pattern whenever these threads pop up, maybe 1:10 ratio of Carlton supporters making an appearance that aren't trolls?



Surely you jest? His time had well and truly come.

Phillips as backup isn't a star, but should be steady enough.



But if we'd drafted Phillips you'd be saying "lel y didn't Esdn draft a tall midfelda?"

It's the same lazy criticism as usual.

Phillips isn't the midfielder we needed, it was better he was off the table.
No i wouldn't.
 

Jabba73

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You're going round and round posting the same lazy commentary though.

Essendon don't have players ready to replace Hurley and Hooker.

Here's some KPD's that might replace Hurley and Hooker.

Essendon don't have players ready to replace Hurley and Hooker.

Here's some KPD's that might replace Hurley and Hooker.

I'm not sure what kind of brilliant insight you're adding to anything.
Still missing the point, they are not ready yet. They might have been ready now if your recruiting team had shown any foresight.

The rebuild has been forced onto your club due to an exodus of experienced players. Unfortunately the lack of foresight in recruiting talls to be ready to replace what you have lost means your club was unable to replace the experienced players roles recently lost because you have been forced to select talls because you lacked the foresight to do it earlier.

Now you have two problems, neither of which has been fixed for this season or next.
 

owen87

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Still missing the point, they are not ready yet. They might have been ready now if your recruiting team had shown any foresight.

The rebuild has been forced onto your club due to an exodus of experienced players. Unfortunately the lack of foresight in recruiting talls to be ready to replace what you have lost means your club was unable to replace the experienced players roles recently lost because you have been forced to select talls because you lacked the foresight to do it earlier.

Now you have two problems, neither of which has been fixed for this season or next.
Pretty easy to criticise in hindsight isn't it.

Zerk-Thatcher, Hartley, Francis, Ridley all brought in prior to any of the above occurring, and Ambrose having shown to be a very capable one-on-one defender.

I also don't think any Essendon supporter cares all that much that Hurley & Hooker can't be replaced immediately. It's a nonsensical criticism, when clearly talls have been drafted.

You can reasonably argue that those talls aren't going to be good enough, but instead you're arguing that they haven't played lots of games, because the incumbents were playing well, and thus may not be able to immediately replace them. They should receive plenty of opportunities this year while Hooker & Hurley are still around to see if they're going to be able to do it long-term.

So here we are, back to this circular argument where it's simply lazy criticism, couched in hindsight, lacking context, and ignoring the talls that have been drafted over the stretch anyway.

If Harry McKay ups at the end of the season and says he wants out, if Curnow never comes good, if Cripps decides to go back to WA, would Carlton "lack foresight" because they can't immediately replace all of the above, all at once?

So instead of arguing that they misread where the list was after after 2018 (because 2017 saw an Essendon side that was the 3rd best scoring side in the comp, with a 23 year old AA Full Forward on an upward trajectory) and shouldn't have pursued Shiel but instead gone to the draft to find insurance for Daniher once he'd spent most of the season out with injury, which is actually a reasonable position and reflects the knowledge people had at the time.

You're arguing a lazy angle, that the club should be able to immediately replace Hurley & Hooker with AA quality KPD's, and that despite Essendon having actually drafted KPD's in the years preceding the 2019 and 2020 drafts, they lacked foresight because the talls drafted in 2019 and 2020 aren't ready to replace them immediately.

The rebuild was fundamentally forced due to Daniher falling apart after 2017, which not a single person in the AFL was expecting. At the end of 2017 he was regarded as the player most likely to take over Franklin's mantle as the best KPF in the AFL with no history of injury and having not missed a game since 2014.

On the topic of the Shiel trade, the pick 11 we traded in 2018 was used by GWS on Jye Caldwell, and there was no tall forward or defender rated anywhere near that selection, which means either a massive reach for a future KPP or taking a mid-sized player like Duursma who wouldn't have filled the Daniher hole anyway. The 2019 pick 14 was used on Miles Bergman, with the best tall available being Mitch Georgiades who would have been a genuine option as a KPF moving forward, but no KPD rated anywhere near that selection insofar as I can tell. The next KPP taken was... Harrison Jones, by Essendon.

So yes, your point is lazy because it's wrong.
 

JayJ20

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They've got a few handy players, I think they will have a pretty typical year for a non-finals side, a lot of disappointment, a few players unearthed that give hope for the future, and will cause the odd unexpected upset against a high ranked side.

For 2021 I'd probably have their range as bottom 4 - about 11th at best.
I agree. Not Gold Coast/Carlton of the last 5 years type horrible, but not great either. 6-8 wins is probably the range for us.
 

SimpkinByTheDockOfTheBay

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Bomber fans are so accustomed to picking up the Herald-Sun each day and reading what a fantastic list they have - particularly in the off season- that it comes at a bit of a shock when they come on Bigfooty and their list is being mocked.
Also, I'm not sure saying the Bombers are crap and won't do any damage in September is "trolling" when people saying it have been correct for 16 years.

Essendon supporters claiming they will be good are the real trolls.
 

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Jabba73

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Pretty easy to criticise in hindsight isn't it.

Zerk-Thatcher, Hartley, Francis, Ridley all brought in prior to any of the above occurring, and Ambrose having shown to be a very capable one-on-one defender.

I also don't think any Essendon supporter cares all that much that Hurley & Hooker can't be replaced immediately. It's a nonsensical criticism, when clearly talls have been drafted.

You can reasonably argue that those talls aren't going to be good enough, but instead you're arguing that they haven't played lots of games, because the incumbents were playing well, and thus may not be able to immediately replace them. They should receive plenty of opportunities this year while Hooker & Hurley are still around to see if they're going to be able to do it long-term.

So here we are, back to this circular argument where it's simply lazy criticism, couched in hindsight, lacking context, and ignoring the talls that have been drafted over the stretch anyway.

If Harry McKay ups at the end of the season and says he wants out, if Curnow never comes good, if Cripps decides to go back to WA, would Carlton "lack foresight" because they can't immediately replace all of the above, all at once?

So instead of arguing that they misread where the list was after after 2018 (because 2017 saw an Essendon side that was the 3rd best scoring side in the comp, with a 23 year old AA Full Forward on an upward trajectory) and shouldn't have pursued Shiel but instead gone to the draft to find insurance for Daniher once he'd spent most of the season out with injury, which is actually a reasonable position and reflects the knowledge people had at the time.

You're arguing a lazy angle, that the club should be able to immediately replace Hurley & Hooker with AA quality KPD's, and that despite Essendon having actually drafted KPD's in the years preceding the 2019 and 2020 drafts, they lacked foresight because the talls drafted in 2019 and 2020 aren't ready to replace them immediately.

The rebuild was fundamentally forced due to Daniher falling apart after 2017, which not a single person in the AFL was expecting. At the end of 2017 he was regarded as the player most likely to take over Franklin's mantle as the best KPF in the AFL with no history of injury and having not missed a game since 2014.

On the topic of the Shiel trade, the pick 11 we traded in 2018 was used by GWS on Jye Caldwell, and there was no tall forward or defender rated anywhere near that selection, which means either a massive reach for a future KPP or taking a mid-sized player like Duursma who wouldn't have filled the Daniher hole anyway. The 2019 pick 14 was used on Miles Bergman, with the best tall available being Mitch Georgiades who would have been a genuine option as a KPF moving forward, but no KPD rated anywhere near that selection insofar as I can tell. The next KPP taken was... Harrison Jones, by Essendon.

So yes, your point is lazy because it's wrong.
McGovern was recruited as the third tall to cover Charlie, Setterfield and Williams traded in for midfield support to Kemp, Dow, Stocker who will all be big bodied mids. TDK replaces Harry. Yes, we could replace them with players ready to go, not as good, but senior AFL level ready.

if you take out Philips who you got for ruck cover and Ambrose who is turning 30, the 8 players over 195cms you have drafted to be keys at both ends have less than 100 games experience between them.

You are one injury to Hooker or Hurley away from being uncompetitive and this all stems from a poor recruiting strategy. Have tried to explain this in multiple ways so you can understand, if you still can’t see it, that is your problem.
 

JayJ20

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Pretty easy to criticise in hindsight isn't it.

Zerk-Thatcher, Hartley, Francis, Ridley all brought in prior to any of the above occurring, and Ambrose having shown to be a very capable one-on-one defender.

I also don't think any Essendon supporter cares all that much that Hurley & Hooker can't be replaced immediately. It's a nonsensical criticism, when clearly talls have been drafted.

You can reasonably argue that those talls aren't going to be good enough, but instead you're arguing that they haven't played lots of games, because the incumbents were playing well, and thus may not be able to immediately replace them. They should receive plenty of opportunities this year while Hooker & Hurley are still around to see if they're going to be able to do it long-term.

So here we are, back to this circular argument where it's simply lazy criticism, couched in hindsight, lacking context, and ignoring the talls that have been drafted over the stretch anyway.

If Harry McKay ups at the end of the season and says he wants out, if Curnow never comes good, if Cripps decides to go back to WA, would Carlton "lack foresight" because they can't immediately replace all of the above, all at once?

So instead of arguing that they misread where the list was after after 2018 (because 2017 saw an Essendon side that was the 3rd best scoring side in the comp, with a 23 year old AA Full Forward on an upward trajectory) and shouldn't have pursued Shiel but instead gone to the draft to find insurance for Daniher once he'd spent most of the season out with injury, which is actually a reasonable position and reflects the knowledge people had at the time.

You're arguing a lazy angle, that the club should be able to immediately replace Hurley & Hooker with AA quality KPD's, and that despite Essendon having actually drafted KPD's in the years preceding the 2019 and 2020 drafts, they lacked foresight because the talls drafted in 2019 and 2020 aren't ready to replace them immediately.

The rebuild was fundamentally forced due to Daniher falling apart after 2017, which not a single person in the AFL was expecting. At the end of 2017 he was regarded as the player most likely to take over Franklin's mantle as the best KPF in the AFL with no history of injury and having not missed a game since 2014.

On the topic of the Shiel trade, the pick 11 we traded in 2018 was used by GWS on Jye Caldwell, and there was no tall forward or defender rated anywhere near that selection, which means either a massive reach for a future KPP or taking a mid-sized player like Duursma who wouldn't have filled the Daniher hole anyway. The 2019 pick 14 was used on Miles Bergman, with the best tall available being Mitch Georgiades who would have been a genuine option as a KPF moving forward, but no KPD rated anywhere near that selection insofar as I can tell. The next KPP taken was... Harrison Jones, by Essendon.

So yes, your point is lazy because it's wrong.
Yep agreed. There's literally so much to criticise Essendon about. So much. Our defence is the one place where we've consistently demonstrated competence and that's what they try to go for lol.

Not our inability to develop dominant big-bodied mids outside of a father/son gifted to us in nearly 20 years, or playing players out of position, or stubbornly sticking with senior players passed their prime and thus stunting the development of our younger players, or being incapable of building a brand of football that stands up to finals football, or our inability to manage injuries like other clubs, or our lack of leadership, or our inability to play in different weather conditions, or our wild inconsistency, or our lack of accountability for our mediocre on-field performance club-wide etc. Nah.

The problem is the area of the ground we've consistently been oversupplied in. Lol
 

WN123

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Also, I'm not sure saying the Bombers are crap and won't do any damage in September is "trolling" when people saying it have been correct for 16 years.

Essendon supporters claiming they will be good are the real trolls.
This entire thread is a troll. The Dodoro thread along with numerous other similar threads has finally disappeared.
Solution. Let’s start another to troll Essendon fans. Should be good for at least 100 pages.
 

pazza

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I love how we will structure up.

To win a premiership, you need to have a decent spine. Getting Wright is clever as he has always impressed me at Centre Half Forward. Stewart has never looked comfortable when Daniher has played in front of him at Full forward, but, with Stewart now fit, it gives 2 genuine tall marking targets. that releases pressure off Stringer who can play in the pocket.
 

owen87

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McGovern was recruited as the third tall to cover Charlie, Setterfield and Williams traded in for midfield support to Kemp, Dow, Stocker who will all be big bodied mids. TDK replaces Harry. Yes, we could replace them with players ready to go, not as good, but senior AFL level ready.

if you take out Philips who you got for ruck cover and Ambrose who is turning 30, the 8 players over 195cms you have drafted to be keys at both ends have less than 100 games experience between them.

You are one injury to Hooker or Hurley away from being uncompetitive and this all stems from a poor recruiting strategy. Have tried to explain this in multiple ways so you can understand, if you still can’t see it, that is your problem.
Jesus.

Your lack of self awareness is incredible.

You literally named a bunch of players that have a sum total of < 60 AFL games between them as being "senior AFL ready". Yet we have a number of players who have actually played at AFL level, that aren't?

By your very own metric, Carlton have a poor recruiting strategy because they couldn't replace McKay, Curnow and Cripps all at the end of this year.

And this is exactly why no one bothers with serious replies. Around and around we go.
 

Upgrayedd

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Two metre potato and Stewart to support Stringer in the forward line. Essendon in for a world of pain for the next couple of years. Consecutive wooden spoons a real posssibility.
Literally the same forward line of last year.
 

owen87

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Literally the same forward line of last year.
Peter Wright was playing for Essendon last year? I missed that one.

Stewart only came back from Round 9 as well.

Previously we were rolling at times with Jacob Townsend at Full Forward for perspective.
 

SimpkinByTheDockOfTheBay

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This entire thread is a troll. The Dodoro thread along with numerous other similar threads has finally disappeared.
Solution. Let’s start another to troll Essendon fans. Should be good for at least 100 pages.
As a North supporter I have no idea what your club being trolled looks like, so can't really comment
 

Jabba73

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Jesus.

Your lack of self awareness is incredible.

You literally named a bunch of players that have a sum total of < 60 AFL games between them as being "senior AFL ready". Yet we have a number of players who have actually played at AFL level, that aren't?

By your very own metric, Carlton have a poor recruiting strategy because they couldn't replace McKay, Curnow and Cripps all at the end of this year.

And this is exactly why no one bothers with serious replies. Around and around we go.
Please.

The players I named as the replacements have over 280 games experience between them.
 

Upgrayedd

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Peter Wright was playing for Essendon last year? I missed that one.

Stewart only came back from Round 9 as well.

Previously we were rolling at times with Jacob Townsend at Full Forward for perspective.
Im saying people who say no daniher and orazio will be missed well they've hardly played last year anyways
 

owen87

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Please.

The players I named as the replacements have over 280 games experience between them.
Remove Williams and McGovern. The rest have < 60 games total. So you can't go claiming it.

McGovern is barely best-22 on output so far.

So Williams who has played a few very good games in the middle, but most of his 110ish have been on the HBF.

Really needed to plan your argument a lot better.

Im saying people who say no daniher and orazio will be missed well they've hardly played last year anyways
Ah, yes I'm with you now, this is true.

Daniher & Fantasia are a loss mostly on paper. The last few years the pundits have overrated Essendon based on the idea that those two would get back to full fitness. In reality Daniher & Fantasia combined for 4 goals in 2020, so all Wright has to do is produce the same stat line he has over his career to comfortably contribute more than that.
 

Yoda_

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Still missing the point, they are not ready yet. They might have been ready now if your recruiting team had shown any foresight.

The rebuild has been forced onto your club due to an exodus of experienced players. Unfortunately the lack of foresight in recruiting talls to be ready to replace what you have lost means your club was unable to replace the experienced players roles recently lost because you have been forced to select talls because you lacked the foresight to do it earlier.

Now you have two problems, neither of which has been fixed for this season or next.
Hooker is set to be played forward whilst Hurley is still doing a reasonable job in defence. No world beater but passable none the less.

Ambrose has been injured whilst BZT is given ample opportunity. The need to play the young defenders is a little silly. In 12 - 18 months Brand, Cox/Reid could be pushing for a consistent senior berth.
Right now none of the kids are required to play AFL


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