Essendon 29k?

[dave10]

There was plenty of build-up......but plenty of the build up actually was caused by the drama of the potential move.

What is the record H&A crowd between Ess & Haw??

You say that the redeveloped stand attracts more supporters, yet what was effectively a final couldn't even get 80K last year.

You have to realise that the different days draw different numbers of fans.

The Essendon games in the 90s that you keep referring to were Friday or Satday night games...the 2001 game was a sunday..Sunday simply do not draw as much as other games.

2007 Coll v Syd rd 21 on a satday got 63,400
2009 Coll v Syd rd 21 on a sunday got 54,400

Ess v Syd on a Sunday simply wont get 60+ low 50s at best



Those polls are crap....Roy Morgan isn't an accurate measure of fans or drawing power.....it measures popularity, ie when a team is going well a few more nuffies who have little interest will allocate themselves to a team doing well....early 00s this team was Essendon...since they have dropped away Essendon has supposedly lost more than 200K 'supporters' according to Roy!!

TV Ratings....Chaz summed it up....of course two Vic based teams will rate higher than a vic based team against a non-vic......and when you take out the non-vic games (apples v apples) the pies are much further ahead.

DT, who cares about that.....a good guide to junior support perhaps, but not overall support!


Not radical, but wrong....Chaz showed that pies have better crowds when you factor in performance, that more people want to watch them on TV. You suggesting the Dons are identical is wrong.


You have some Roy Morgan polls, and a misguided belief that playing some home games at TD supposedly cost the dons 100K supporters a year. That is crap.

The pies had been the biggest club since the 20s. Essendon got their ship in order and turned professional first.....and as a result in the late 90s they jumped ahead, during the time when Collingwood was being run into the ground and still playing at VicPark.

Once the pies became professional off-field, ie when McGuire took over, they have since shot back to the front in terms of crowds and interest. No shame in being second dons, just no need to try and falsely claim that the numbers are identical when they clearly show the pies being ahead.

Chaz' figures dont lie...and dont make misguided assumptions about lost crowd opportunities....or use Fri night and sunday arvo as part of 'Apples v Apples' comparisons.

You just destroyed your credibility. You cant just dismiss a survey of 300,000 people and blame junior supporters!! At my work, people of most ages are involved. It is the most comprehensive survey imaginable! the only people it arguable excludes are women because I dont know that many who play it (I may be wrong). The DT and SC stats are enormously telling. If you were to do a massive survey of club support you would struggle to create a better survey that these under any circumstanes.

 

[doppleganger]

When was the last time Collingwood drew nearly 78,000 to a home and away match Vs Hawthorn?? (I think a while ago)

Gee mate do some research!

2008 Rd 7, Hawthorn v Collingwood Sat arvo at the G....76048

 

[Chaz Pendlebury]

Collingwood's highest is 52,968 in 2008. Round 10 7th vs 13th

I would be surprised if west coast wasn't the only team that essendon has higher MCG / Docklands average than Collingwood

 

[dave10]

Collingwood Crowds at the docklands in finals years that would have got a gazillion more assuming we would have got our highest ever MCG crowds against the same teams....

2002
Bris 46,279
Syd 45,269
Nth 48,288

2003
Saints 46,096
Kangas 53,312
Geel 45,887
Adel 45,367

2006
Nth 48,721
Saints 48,564

2007
Dogs 46,990
Hawks 50,248
Adel 47,915

2008
Saints 48,417
Dogs 44,885
Nth 46,610
Syd 45,570

2009
Saints 46,880
Dogs 51,382
Dogs 48,888

2010
Dogs 49,000
Saints 49,669

These would have all got between 10,000 and 30,000 more, assuming our highest ever crowds against those teams would have shown up if we played at the G

Also, while we are here

Collingwood's averages against the SA /WA sides in 04/05

At the docklands 36,809
At the MCG 28,472

But of course you don't draw more at the dome in winter when your team is shyte!

I can only assume Collingwood were not great on field in 2004/5? To only average 28,428 Vs interstate teams at the G proves that in recent years when Collingwood are struggling on field they struggle to draw 30,000 at home! Essendons crowd of 29,248 v Power last week was not really that bad under the circumstances was it??

 

[serenityNow]

Get em out guys, get em out

 

[doppleganger]

You just destroyed your credibility. You cant just dismiss a survey of 300,000 people and blame junior supporters!! At my work, people of most ages are involved. It is the most comprehensive survey imaginable! the only people it arguable excludes are women because I dont know that many who play it (I may be wrong). The DT and SC stats are enormously telling. If you were to do a massive survey of club support you would struggle to create a better survey that these under any circumstanes.

Destroyed my credibility...for fecks sake mate, pull the other one.

DT/SC is predominantly made up of a younger demographic......so as I said it is probably a good representation of junior support.

 

[Chaz Pendlebury]

I can only assume Collingwood were not great on field in 2004/5? To only average 28,428 Vs interstate teams at the G proves that in recent years when Collingwood are struggling on field they struggle to draw 30,000 at home! Essendons crowd of 29,248 v Power last week was not really that bad under the circumstances was it??

Missing the point Dave. We averaged 36,809 against those teams at the Dome. and we were bottom four both those years....

The dome increases crowds against interstate teams when you are shyte

 

[dave10]

Gee mate do some research!

2008 Rd 7, Hawthorn v Collingwood Sat arvo at the G....76048

I did say 78,000? Point being Essendon draw as well V Hawthorn as Collingwood. Even this year you only drew 7,000 more even though Essendon were coming off a shocker on ANZAC Day with a 2-4 record.

 

[doppleganger]

I can only assume Collingwood were not great on field in 2004/5? To only average 28,428 Vs interstate teams at the G proves that in recent years when Collingwood are struggling on field they struggle to draw 30,000 at home! Essendons crowd of 29,248 v Power last week was not really that bad under the circumstances was it??

You can only assume that Collingwood were not great in 04/05....no sh1t, we were terrible.....in 05 we finished bottom 2.

The last time Essendon were bottom 2, 2006 they also had some poor crowds....you blokes only got 33K to an MCG game against St.Kilda in rd 15.

That is Chaz' point, that when you are struggling, it is actually a benefit to play your home games at TD....as fans wont turn up to a wet and windy game at the G, but may go to a game 'inside' at the dome.

The pies averages of 04/05 back that up.

 

[dave10]

Collingwood's highest is 52,968 in 2008. Round 10 7th vs 13th

I would be surprised if west coast wasn't the only team that essendon has higher MCG / Docklands average than Collingwood

I am guessing that the 69,000 V Syd that Essendon got in the late 1990's was a higher attendance than Collingwoods best. I know Collingwood have pipped Ess on Freo (42,000 V 44,000) and Adel where our biggest crowd at home was 40,000 in about 1995 I believe. Since the Lions have been a decent side in the modern era Essendon have drawn 50,000+ twice at the dome in sell outs in the early 2000's. One match was a big one which may have drawn 60,000 a the MCG. Dont know Collingwood best V Brisbane.

 

[dave10]

Destroyed my credibility...for fecks sake mate, pull the other one.

DT/SC is predominantly made up of a younger demographic......so as I said it is probably a good representation of junior support.

Ok, so if it is indicative of support from years 10-50, then it bodes well for Essendon having joint biggest support with the Pies in the years to come?

 

[dave10]

Missing the point Dave. We averaged 36,809 against those teams at the Dome. and we were bottom four both those years....

The dome increases crowds against interstate teams when you are shyte

Chaz, the point I was making was that even Collingwood draw below 30,000 at home when struggling on field..

 

[doppleganger]

I did say 78,000? Point being Essendon draw as well V Hawthorn as Collingwood. Even this year you only drew 7,000 more even though Essendon were coming off a shocker on ANZAC Day with a 2-4 record.

Fact is you dont.....we drew 7,000 more than you blokes.

Both games were a Sat night, so no difference.

The pies were coming off a half of football where we didn't score a goal against the Saints, not really good form.

Your game was a 'season defining', 'revenge for Sewell', 'line in the sand II' and revival of the big 80s rivalry........yet Pies v Hawks drew more.

 

[dave10]

You can only assume that Collingwood were not great in 04/05....no sh1t, we were terrible.....in 05 we finished bottom 2.

The last time Essendon were bottom 2, 2006 they also had some poor crowds....you blokes only got 33K to an MCG game against St.Kilda in rd 15.

That is Chaz' point, that when you are struggling, it is actually a benefit to play your home games at TD....as fans wont turn up to a wet and windy game at the G, but may go to a game 'inside' at the dome.

The pies averages of 04/05 back that up.

In the driving rain which did not stop all day.. And we lost by under a goal and should have won!!!

Not argueing that the Ess V Port crowd was ordinary. All I am saying is that like Collingwood, when performing crap on field both clubs are prone to sub 30,000 crowds. When Essendon return to the fore, the crowds will return. I have no doubt that if a top 4 Ess played the Dockers at home this weekend 40,000+ would go. This proves that Essendons crowds of the early 2000's and late 1990's are not fluke rather we await Essendons re emergence as a crowd drawing competitor to Collingwood at the top of the tree.

 

[doppleganger]

Ok, so if it is indicative of support from years 10-50, then it bodes well for Essendon having joint biggest support with the Pies in the years to come?

10-50......that is a stretch mate! More like 10-30

No surprise the dons have plenty of supporters as they were great in the 90s-00s, whilst it was Collingwood's worst period in their history!!

 

[doppleganger]

Not argueing that the Ess V Port crowd was ordinary. All I am saying is that like Collingwood, when performing crap on field both clubs are prone to sub 30,000 crowds. When Essendon return to the fore, the crowds will return. I have no doubt that if a top 4 Ess played the Dockers at home this weekend 40,000+ would go. This proves that Essendons crowds of the early 2000's and late 1990's are not fluke rather we await Essendons re emergence as a crowd drawing competitor to Collingwood at the top of the tree.

Collingwood when crap get 35K crowds to the dome, and sub 30K crowds to the G.

That is explained by the weather, people get turned off by the prospect of a cold/wet/windy arvo at the footy when their team is sh1te.

Essendon when crap get sub 30K crowds to the dome.

As Chaz has said all along, the pies average about 3-4K more per game than the Dons.

 

[dave10]

Fact is you dont.....we drew 7,000 more than you blokes.

Both games were a Sat night, so no difference.

The pies were coming off a half of football where we didn't score a goal against the Saints, not really good form.

Your game was a 'season defining', 'revenge for Sewell', 'line in the sand II' and revival of the big 80s rivalry........yet Pies v Hawks drew more.

Mate, you seem to forget Collingwood are top 4 and almost flag favourite. Essendon were under pressure to sack their coach in the lead up! Form does influence crowds and this is a clear example. At least be even minded.

All things being equal, Essendon will outdraw Collingwood V the Hawks because they hate us more than you do and they all have this game in mind as their grudge match. If Essendon was 4-2 i reckon 75,000+ would have been at the G (like last year). Agree?

 

[dave10]

Collingwood when crap get 35K crowds to the dome, and sub 30K crowds to the G.

That is explained by the weather, people get turned off by the prospect of a cold/wet/windy arvo at the footy when their team is sh1te.

Essendon when crap get sub 30K crowds to the dome.

As Chaz has said all along, the pies average about 3-4K more per game than the Dons.

Essendon would have drawn over 30,000 last Saturday if at the MCG. Look back to the mid 1990's and beyond at the MCG and Essendon did not draw under 30,000 to a home game ever (I think I am right here). It is only since moving to the Dome that we have had a few under 30,000 - also coincides with our worst on field run since the 1970's. Without being pedantic, both Essendon and Collingwood in poor form will draw below 30,000 if the conditions are right.

 

[doppleganger]

Mate, you seem to forget Collingwood are top 4 and almost flag favourite. Essendon were under pressure to sack their coach in the lead up! Form does influence crowds and this is a clear example. At least be even minded.

All things being equal, Essendon will outdraw Collingwood V the Hawks because they hate us more than you do and they all have this game in mind as their grudge match. If Essendon was 4-2 i reckon 75,000+ would have been at the G (like last year). Agree?

Last years game was basically a final......when has a normal Haw v Ess game drawn 70+??

Who is forgetting form??

Chaz form calculator takes into account form.....

The last time both teams have been ordinary, 2005, pies finished 15th and dons finished 13th

Ess v Haw Rd 3 - 44,971
Haw v Ess Rd 20 - 32,053

Haw v Coll 49 Rd 10 - 49,927

Pies draw more, even despite the intense rivalry!!

 

[Chaz Pendlebury]

^^^^

Too easy Doppleganger

Rainman26 has crawled off but Dave10 is still hanging around. Glutton for punishment

 

[doppleganger]

Essendon would have drawn over 30,000 last Saturday if at the MCG. Look back to the mid 1990's and beyond at the MCG and Essendon did not draw under 30,000 to a home game ever (I think I am right here).

Essendon in 1993.......think you blokes were ok that year!

Ess v Syd MCG 22,813
Ess v Bris MCG 20,453

 

[Chaz Pendlebury]

Essendon in 1993.......think you blokes were ok that year!

Ess v Syd MCG 22,813
Ess v Bris MCG 20,453

and at least half a dozen more for the decade and several low 30's against melbourne clubs as well

a few sub 20's at princess park but god knows i wouldn't have gone there if we played home games there

 

[doppleganger]

and at least half a dozen more for the decade and several low 30's against melbourne clubs as well

a few sub 20's at princess park but god knows i wouldn't have gone there if we played home games there

Cant wait for a response from Dan about Roy Morgan figures when I pop into bigfooty moro at work!

 

[gaelictiogar]

You can only assume that Collingwood were not great in 04/05....no sh1t, we were terrible.....in 05 we finished bottom 2.

The last time Essendon were bottom 2, 2006 they also had some poor crowds....you blokes only got 33K to an MCG game against St.Kilda in rd 15.

That is Chaz' point, that when you are struggling, it is actually a benefit to play your home games at TD....as fans wont turn up to a wet and windy game at the G, but may go to a game 'inside' at the dome.

The pies averages of 04/05 back that up.

Pies in bottom 2 2005 average home attendance 41,000 plus.
Essendon bottom 2 2006 average home attendance 42,000 plus.

 

[gaelictiogar]

GullibleToiger, never thought i'd say this about anyone but you are possibly both more deluded and more petulant than Rainman26

I apologise if tearing down your flimsy "basement year" theory translates to you as "not listening"

Carlton last year to draw above Collingwood 1987 (11 more wins)
Richmond 1982 (14 more wins)

Even way back then when moses was a lad, Richmond only ever did because they were playing at the G. 1982 was the only year ever where Richmond had higher average away crowds (by 300 mind you)

Carlton have done that more often as recently as 2000, but not that often at all. Carlton may have out drawn us a couple more times (95, 2000) if they weren't playing at princess park

Essendon have outdrawn us 7 times
1982.....marginally in 96 and 04....and then 4 times between 98 and 01, in the age of rainman26

Richmond were the fourth of the "big four" even back 30 years ago. Melbourne had one of the bigger home averages well into the late 70's - despite being 15 years out of the 8, because the away support at the MCG was always enormous. You could go there, get a seat, and not get spit on!

Y = 662x + 9,275

Richmond have had two periods of consistent success. One when at he G. The other between the 20s and 40s at Punt Road.

What happpened then? Richmond at Punt Rd. Collingwood at Vic Park?

Attendance records date from 1921.

29 seasons 1921 to 1949 Pies final 20 times. Tiges final 19 times. More or less level with a smnall Magpie advantage.

Home attendances? Both at suburban grounds!

Richmond ahead of Collingwood 23 times. Collingwood ahead of Richmond 6 times.

In the G in the 60s to 80s. At Punt rd before then Richmond when finalling have usually outdrawn Collingwood at home where it is home support that matters. Historically a finalling Richmond outdraws a finalling Collingwood G or no G. FACT.