Essendon Black Ops Drug use sparks copycat rush

[DonsRule]

Actually thats not entirely true. The AFL does not operate the club. Its ownership structure remains unknown, but its likely its similar to the swans, where the AFL appoints some of all of the board, and has a single vote that equate to 51% or more of the membership. Funded though, yes. Technically though, all clubs are at least partially funded by the league.

Just said a little in cheek, more that from what is known, the AFL have more control on GCS than most clubs.

 

[MaddAdam]

Interesting and wide ranging piece on MMA, includes this tidbit:

This aspect of fandom explains some of the outrage over steroids (which has been a recurrent issue in MMA): If they’re using drugs to get ahead, then clearly the athletes are doing it “just” to win, “just” to get paid. Patrick Arnold, the organic chemist and amateur bodybuilder who did prison time for designing anabolic steroids for the BALCO doping ring and who has since become an antisteroid campaigner, has frequently argued that the only way athletes will stop taking steroids is if sports are totally deprofessionalized—if no one makes any money off them at all.
Of course, Arnold is cynically indicating that steroids will never leave sport, but there is a revolutionary demand within his claim. The most damaging practices of sports—the body-ravaging chemicals and all-consuming lifestyles required of the professional athlete—would disappear, were sports made amateur across the board.

http://thenewinquiry.com/essays/how-can-you-watch-that-stuff/
blackcat

 

[Chameleon75]

Interesting and wide ranging piece on MMA, includes this tidbit:



http://thenewinquiry.com/essays/how-can-you-watch-that-stuff/
blackcat

The structure of fandom has grown to be equally implicated in this exploitation as the practices of the owners. Fandom is experienced as passion, and fans want to see that passion reflected in the athletes who perform for them. They want athletes to play for the same reasons they watch: for the love of the game, the purity of competition, physical grace, and teamwork. Sports fans make the same demands of athletes that aesthetes make of artists: that they not “sell out,” that they not reveal any vulgar material motivations to their actions.

This paragraph can be transposed to any sport. Fans are conditioned with the "no individual is bigger than the team" mantra", so when a player is in conflict with the club, fans nearly always back the club. Think reimers, matters not what is said, once at odds with the club the general attitude was that he should just f!@k off.

 

[Baldur]

This paragraph can be transposed to any sport. Fans are conditioned with the "no individual is bigger than the team" mantra", so when a player is in conflict with the club, fans nearly always back the club. Think reimers, matters not what is said, once at odds with the club the general attitude was that he should just f!@k off.

Which is why when an individual does seem bigger then the club, people begin to call the fans cultists.

 

[blackcat]

Interesting and wide ranging piece on MMA, includes this tidbit:



http://thenewinquiry.com/essays/how-can-you-watch-that-stuff/
blackcat

and this is where we need a sociologist or Charles Yesalis of Penn to rebut this misconception. The incentive is not financial. the incentive, and external locus, is the Win, and the externalising that raison d'etre. I would say, that ALL franchise players have this psychological thrust. imo, Armstrong was the best. Even Bradman was hated by teammates, but he extended this into his stockbroking shingle in Adelaide.

 

[blackcat]

Which is why when an individual does seem bigger then the club, people begin to call the fans cultists.

The last decades, individuals have come to be a more accurate symbol for the club. It has become the era of the individual, and fame and celebrity. I dont think North had this anvil with Carey, and even MJ played with Washington Bullets on his second coming.

 

[blackcat]

This paragraph can be transposed to any sport. Fans are conditioned with the "no individual is bigger than the team" mantra", so when a player is in conflict with the club, fans nearly always back the club. Think reimers, matters not what is said, once at odds with the club the general attitude was that he should just f!@k off.

actually, a motif in my posts over the last 6 months in d'affaire hird, have been asserting opposite. The franchise player, has become the club. become the club. Not two decades ago, and not even with Carey, nor the Ablett family. So they are exceptions.

question is if free agency will potentially undermine or reverse this pernicious trend

 

[Laphroaig]

actually, a motif in my posts over the last 6 months in d'affaire hird, have been asserting opposite. The franchise player, has become the club. become the club. Not two decades ago, and not even with Carey, nor the Ablett family. So they are exceptions.

question is if free agency will potentially undermine or reverse this pernicious trend

That's a very limited paradigm.

The loyalty argument has always been a one way transaction for both Clubs and supporters. Players have ever been disposable items, and sent off to the knackers yard without even a crocodile tear if their value to the Club becomes less than their pay packet.

 

[blackcat]

That's a very limited paradigm.

The loyalty argument has always been a one way transaction for both Clubs and supporters. Players have ever been disposable items, and sent off to the knackers yard without even a crocodile tear if their value to the Club becomes less than their pay packet.

salient qualifier was "franchise player". not peripheral player. but do agree with the premise of your post Laphroaig

 

[Chameleon75]

actually, a motif in my posts over the last 6 months in d'affaire hird, have been asserting opposite. The franchise player, has become the club. become the club. Not two decades ago, and not even with Carey, nor the Ablett family. So they are exceptions.

question is if free agency will potentially undermine or reverse this pernicious trend

hird is an exception but I think its more to do with the hird name, become intertwined with windy hill.

 

[blackcat]

Interesting and wide ranging piece on MMA, includes this tidbit:
Interesting and wide ranging piece on MMA, includes this tidbit:

This aspect of fandom explains some of the outrage over steroids (which has been a recurrent issue in MMA): If they’re using drugs to get ahead, then clearly the athletes are doing it “just” to win, “just” to get paid. Patrick Arnold, the organic chemist and amateur bodybuilder who did prison time for designing anabolic steroids for the BALCO doping ring and who has since become an antisteroid campaigner, has frequently argued that the only way athletes will stop taking steroids is if sports are totally deprofessionalized—if no one makes any money off them at all.​

Of course, Arnold is cynically indicating that steroids will never leave sport, but there is a revolutionary demand within his claim. The most damaging practices of sports—the body-ravaging chemicals and all-consuming lifestyles required of the professional athlete—would disappear, were sports made amateur across the board.​

http://thenewinquiry.com/essays/how-can-you-watch-that-stuff/
blackcat

i have not seen that apologia from the Essendon fan on this board, this is a more simple cognitive dissonance and obfuscation. And like those MMA fan, they are pretty ripe automatons for Liz Lukin. When i speak to my mom, i would luv to be a spinner and control her, she is such a patsy to those murdoch talking points or corporate communication talking points, or imprimaturs from the Ponds Institutes of this world.

I would not think drugs and PEDs are just for the win and a salary. I think it is more a JPS bad faith. I know it with young cyclists, adolescents, they are not cyclists until they take pills or hypodermics. and there is a confluence/intersection with type A personalities, but these are married to Win (caveat my pseudo undermining that motive ^). What about when there was no culture or identity of a cyclist to associate with doping? have not had the time nor thought to mull that fallacy over yet. Or pre=professionalism and salary. Always a win tho, but it becomes a zero sum when you pit a doped boxer v a doped boxer. but becomes game theory in both will dope for the win.

cant be bothered to give a cogent response when having had a few beers, prefer just to have another beer

 

[blackcat]

hird is an exception but I think its more to do with the hird name, become intertwined with windy hill.

i think it is the Lady Gaga and Justin Bieber era. I know they had the screaming fans at Rockmans for the Beatles, and Tom Jones gets panties thrown at him. i am thinking that the individual, and adoption of prominent individuals has reached an apogee never approached in previous epochs

 

[MaddAdam]

actually, a motif in my posts over the last 6 months in d'affaire hird, have been asserting opposite. The franchise player, has become the club. become the club. Not two decades ago, and not even with Carey, nor the Ablett family. So they are exceptions.

question is if free agency will potentially undermine or reverse this pernicious trend

I disagree. I think Hird is the exception that proves the rule. NO player will ever be bigger than the club. If Wayne Carey was at North and did the same thing again, we'd sack him. No questions. Sure players can move more easily, but it doesn't ruin the club - see Hawthorn and Franklin or Geelong and Ablett.

Hird is unique because he was coach. Also, it is difficult to think of a contemporary figure at any club that had the same place as Hird. Also, recall the backstory to all this - Hird was for years seen as the saviour in waiting by Essendon fans, the golden prince across the water who would lead them back to glory.

Thus when that figure, who has been idolised from afar makes his triumphant return, it is very difficult to accept that might actually turn out to be the biggest mistake the club has ever made. VERY difficult to get your head around that one when you are so emotionally invested, like so many Essendon supporters are/were.

Far from the Hird thing setting a trend, I think he's actually an utterly unique case and we will probably never see a repetition of these circumstances again.

Look at West Coast, just appointed a VICTORIAN in Adam Simpson ahead of beloved club son Peter Sumich, and the masses didn't rise up, in fact many of them welcomed having someone from outside the "boy's club".

Also, I reckon every other club in the league will be looking at the Essendon debacle and working out practices/structures etc to try and ensure such a situation cannot happen that their club.

 

[MaddAdam]

hird is an exception but I think its more to do with the hird name, become intertwined with windy hill.

Agree. Hard to imagine a similar scenario.

 

[blackcat]

I disagree. I think Hird is the exception that proves the rule. NO player will ever be bigger than the club. If Wayne Carey was at North and did the same thing again, we'd sack him. No questions. Sure players can move more easily, but it doesn't ruin the club - see Hawthorn and Franklin or Geelong and Ablett.

Hird is unique because he was coach. Also, it is difficult to think of a contemporary figure at any club that had the same place as Hird. Also, recall the backstory to all this - Hird was for years seen as the saviour in waiting by Essendon fans, the golden prince across the water who would lead them back to glory.

Thus when that figure, who has been idolised from afar makes his triumphant return, it is very difficult to accept that might actually turn out to be the biggest mistake the club has ever made. VERY difficult to get your head around that one when you are so emotionally invested, like so many Essendon supporters are/were.

Far from the Hird thing setting a trend, I think he's actually an utterly unique case and we will probably never see a repetition of these circumstances again.

Look at West Coast, just appointed a VICTORIAN in Adam Simpson ahead of beloved club son Peter Sumich, and the masses didn't rise up, in fact many of them welcomed having someone from outside the "boy's club".

Also, I reckon every other club in the league will be looking at the Essendon debacle and working out practices/structures etc to try and ensure such a situation cannot happen that their club.

can see how i could have got ahead of myself with confirmation bias. dont claim to be sally warcroft. for West Coast, i would be kinda thinking Cousins, pre-Mainwaring. but Cousins betrayed Perth, WCE and fans, and fans and Perth and the WCE betrayed Cousins.

 

[Dave]

Also, I reckon every other club in the league will be looking at the Essendon debacle and working out practices/structures etc to try and ensure such a situation cannot happen that their club.

You dont think Essendon aren't also doing that? Albeit the horse has bolted, it'd be nice to have a stable door. If anything good comes out of this for the club, it should be at the very least a set of operational rules that ensure nothing even close to this can ever happen again.

On the saviour business, there's no doubt the notion of a former player coming back has an emotional attraction for most footy fans. It did with me, though it was Bomber I always wanted, not Jimmy.

 

[MaddAdam]

You dont think Essendon aren't also doing that? Albeit the horse has bolted, it'd be nice to have a stable door. If anything good comes out of this for the club, it should be at the very least a set of operational rules that ensure nothing even close to this can ever happen again.

On the saviour business, there's no doubt the notion of a former player coming back has an emotional attraction for most footy fans. It did with me, though it was Bomber I always wanted, not Jimmy.

It is an interesting one with Essendon. You'd reckon they'd want to play 100 per cent straight bat from here and I'm sure the "processes" re supplements they are, but the whole re-signing Hird thing didn't look great.

The saviour thing I think is different with Hird, and kind of understandably so. I would have loved Adam Simpson at North in some capacity, but it didn't hapen. I suppose in Carey there's actually the only comparable kind of thing. If it all goes **** up under Scott and now that Duck is being suitably rehabilitated in the media, that might come close. But even then, I think Essendon were in a unique spot in 2009/10 re Hird.

That's not actually a go btw, just a recognition of fact.

 

[DonsRule]

It is an interesting one with Essendon. You'd reckon they'd want to play 100 per cent straight bat from here and I'm sure the "processes" re supplements they are, but the whole re-signing Hird thing didn't look great.

The saviour thing I think is different with Hird, and kind of understandably so. I would have loved Adam Simpson at North in some capacity, but it didn't hapen. I suppose in Carey there's actually the only comparable kind of thing. If it all goes **** up under Scott and now that Duck is being suitably rehabilitated in the media, that might come close. But even then, I think Essendon were in a unique spot in 2009/10 re Hird.

That's not actually a go btw, just a recognition of fact.

I think adding to Hird too is the family history, Allan Hird stand at Windy Hill, before this Hird too had a pretty clean, and charasmatic personality that helped lead to a lot of his status.

 

[jenny61_99]

I think adding to Hird too is the family history, Allan Hird stand at Windy Hill, before this Hird too had a pretty clean, and charasmatic personality that helped lead to a lot of his status.

It's a genuine shame that with this debacle he's thrown that all away.

 

[Sunshine Saint]

Interesting with the discussion on the tanning agent Melanotan, that the name "Tanya Hird" historical derivation is "Tan Your Hide"

 

[Satan]

Can Hird be charged with bringing society into disrepute? I hear Bunnings sales of their pre-constructed drug dungeon kits have also go through the roof since the Age started reporting on the issue.


Essendon drug use sparks copycat rush



http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/essendon-drug-use-sparks-copycat-rush-20140105-30c3i.html

Is this the drugs they were talking about today on radio, loss appetite, improves tan, bolsters ... Drive

 

[jenny61_99]

Damn you Satan!

 

[Lavender Bushranger]

I'm surprised by the dismissal of this article and the issue it addresses.

This issue, is one of THE reasons WADA exist and why the S0 category in their code is so critical.

 

[Just interested]

I'm surprised by the dismissal of this article and the issue it addresses.

This issue, is one of THE reasons WADA exist and why the S0 category in their code is so critical.

There was an interesting follow up to this '14 article in yesdee's Age, 'ranger:

http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/m...despite-serious-concerns-20150804-giqz0l.html

A few personal highlights:

"The product is Melanotan-2 and it is being sold by a range of pharmacists who say it will provide you with "safe effective tanning" for about $300 every three months."

"In 2013, the AFL charge sheet against Essendon identified Melanotan-2 as the drug James Hird allegedly injected himself with."

"A dermatologist at the Skin & Cancer Foundation in Melbourne, Victoria Mar, said she was alarmed to hear that the drug was being spruiked to teenage school girls before their school formal."

"When the teenage girl was given the brochure, she was allegedly wearing her school uniform."

"The pamphlet, titled "Melanotan-2: Safe enhanced tanning" says although the drug is not approved by the Therapeutic Goods Administration (Australia's drug watchdog) and that studies into its effects are under way, it "is safe" and and its use "well documented". It says people can be referred to a "suitable doctor who is trained to prescribe MT2" so the pharmacy can dispense it to them."

"The pamphlet also advises people how to inject themselves with it and how much sun to expose themselves to."

"Dr Mar said the drug had been linked to a range of significant problems for people. In one case, a 39-year-old man's muscles started breaking down with kidney dysfunction after a single dose.

"There are too many risks associated with the drug," she said.

"The drug will also discolour existing freckles and moles. There have also been reports of dysplastic changes arising in pre-existing moles and even melanoma developing in patients."

"A spokeswoman for Dukasa Compounding Pharmacy said she did not want to comment."

So, hands up who's happy with such a drug being promoted to school kids, with a promise of a script coming from a doctor, as well as instructions on how to self inject?

As the '14 article that kicked off this thread suggested, the E'dope enterprise was a marketing and advertising bonanza for the P&IED industry.

 

[Just interested]

Some of the correspondence sparked by the previously mentioned article.

Firstly, on the spuikers at Dukasa, who didn't want to comment:

http://www.dukasacompounding.com/#!ourteam/c1se
Aspasia Dukas (B.Pharm) – Compounding Manager and Proprietor

"Aspasia graduated from Monash University, Parkville with a Bachelor of Pharmacy. She gained extensive knowledge and practical experience in several compounding pharmacies throughout Victoria, specialising in non-sterile compounding.

Aspasia is currently undertaking her Fellowship in Anti-Ageing, Functional and Regenerative Medicine with the American Academy of Anti-Ageing Medicine, in order to remain at the forefront of her field and to provide her patients with superlative professional advice.

Aspasia is both a valued member of A4M (American Academy of Anti-Ageing Medicine) and A5M (Australasian Academy of Anti-Ageing Medicine).

Having completed an Australian Pharmacy Council approved certificate in Non-Sterile Training, with Medisca Australia, she is fully trained in all aspects of non-sterile compounding to ensure the highest quality products.

Kosta Strintzos – Professional Services Manager & Compounding Technican

Kosta has obtained a Bachelor’s degree in Arts/Commerce and majored in Business Administration. Kosta manages the team and daily operations at Dukasa Compounding.

Kosta is an avid office administrator and marketing manager since joining Dukasa Compounding. Kosta also enjoys being at the frontline of the healthcare industry and the opportunity to provide tailor-made solutions for our clients.

Kosta has also completed an Australian Pharmacy Council approved certificate in Non-Sterile Training, with Medisca Australia and is fully trained in all aspects of non-sterile compounding to ensure the highest quality products.


If you read the 1st link, on the development of the modern Yanqui anti-ageing industry, you will recognise that Apasia is a ‘valued member’ of the very organisation at the heart of that Yanqui industry. And, ooh look, they have an Oz chapter.

Not only that, but so devoted has Apasia become, she’s no longer a pharmacist, she’s now “an avid office administrator and marketing manager”. We all hate most economists, we’ve come to despise Land Economists, but I have an enduring hatred of Marketing Managers – primo cogs in the wheel."

Posted with apologies to any solidly principled economists and marketing types.