Hot Topic Essendon Board Non-Football COVID-19 Discussions

Remove this Banner Ad

Lore

Moderator ❀
Dec 14, 2015
21,652
27,507
AFL Club
Essendon
Apparently the number of new cases in SA atm is below the threshold to even be considered a hotspot according to the federal government?

It's sort of funny, we're so fatigued by it in Melbourne after all this time, while over in Adelaide it's like they've just got an adrenaline rush. It'd be nice for them (and everyone really) if the cases they've got now don't turn into 700 a day though.
 

Log in to remove this ad.

Pweter

Brownlow Medallist
Feb 12, 2010
13,584
17,274
Right here, right now
AFL Club
Essendon
Other Teams
Central Districts, Detroit Pistons

Glad someone cleared that up. So it's not a crazy new strain? Are we blaming Victoria yet or too soon? (don't answer that)
It seems strange to not blame Vic for our problems. Give us time, I'm sure we'll find a way.

I'm lost on what's going on no. I'll just do as I'm told and hopefully we'll get through relatively unscathed.
 

ant555

The Oracle
May 4, 2004
21,012
24,599
lurking in the shadows of the matrix
AFL Club
Essendon
Other Teams
Penrith Panthers
I'd vote for Dan if he's got a vendetta against serial fu**head Jeff Kennett
Do not want to be political but I could not vote for Dan against anyone now. Their total arrogance and ineptitude put us back in lock down while the rest of the country was moving towards normal. Did a good job fixing the mess but they created the mess in the first place.
 

Old Campaigner

Premium Gold
Nov 22, 2012
9,882
10,791
AFL Club
Essendon
Do not want to be political but I could not vote for Dan against anyone now. Their total arrogance and ineptitude put us back in lock down while the rest of the country was moving towards normal. Did a good job fixing the mess but they created the mess in the first place.
Funny how perspectives differ. I see the hotel quarantine debacle and second lockdown as a more or less inevitable outcome of a pandemic no one was really prepared for. The response to the pandemic was never going to be perfect and I'm just grateful we've got leaders that went about fixing the problems instead of throwing their hands in the air and saying it's all too hard.
 

TheGrizz

Spec Moderator
Sep 29, 2016
4,630
5,710
AFL Club
Essendon
Other Teams
Bayern Munich
Funny how perspectives differ. I see the hotel quarantine debacle and second lockdown as a more or less inevitable outcome of a pandemic no one was really prepared for. The response to the pandemic was never going to be perfect and I'm just grateful we've got leaders that went about fixing the problems instead of throwing their hands in the air and saying it's all too hard.
If its so inevitable then why hasnt it happened in WA, NT or the ACT, or to the same extent in shortened outbreaks in NSW and SA.

The VIC government and Andrews botched it big time, and his CMO admitted as such when they said the training and policies around hotel quarantine were inadequate and werent even run by the CMO (they werent even aware private security was being used)

Victoria has done well to knuckle down and get out of it, but that doesnt hide the fact it was a monumental stuff up to begin with.
 

Old Campaigner

Premium Gold
Nov 22, 2012
9,882
10,791
AFL Club
Essendon
If its so inevitable then why hasnt it happened in WA, NT or the ACT, or to the same extent in shortened outbreaks in NSW and SA.

The VIC government and Andrews botched it big time, and his CMO admitted as such when they said the training and policies around hotel quarantine were inadequate and werent even run by the CMO (they werent even aware private security was being used)

Victoria has done well to knuckle down and get out of it, but that doesnt hide the fact it was a monumental stuff up to begin with.
It did happen in other places. NSW had a security guard get infected and take public transport to his other job. Ruby Princess happened. WA had some stuff up with a ship disembarking crew, SA had their recent outbreak, NZ has had a couple of leaks from hotel quarantine as well. Around the world there would be countless failures of process or errors of judgement. We'll almost certainly have further escapes before this is all done and dusted.

The pandemic caught the world with it's pants down and when you have to adapt, introduce new programs etc in a hurry mistakes will happen. I'm happier that the relevant departments here seem to have learned from those mistakes than I am unhappy that the mistakes happened in the first place because I'm not convinced the alternative government here would've done any better... just look at Tim Smith's carry-ons throughout all this.
 

ant555

The Oracle
May 4, 2004
21,012
24,599
lurking in the shadows of the matrix
AFL Club
Essendon
Other Teams
Penrith Panthers
Funny how perspectives differ. I see the hotel quarantine debacle and second lockdown as a more or less inevitable outcome of a pandemic no one was really prepared for. The response to the pandemic was never going to be perfect and I'm just grateful we've got leaders that went about fixing the problems instead of throwing their hands in the air and saying it's all too hard.
Perspective.
You think that not following what NSW did after the Ruby princess debacle and having an inadequate tracing system was not a government issue ? or the fact that they stood in front of an inquiry and simply lied until they got found out and then said oh yeah I forgot about that . Then you have the fact that hotel security was farmed out to a company not even on the Government approved list who then farmed it out to two other companies. yet during this whole time they knocked back ADF help. That is not inevitable. That is poor management to the highest order. They used a security company that had recently been condemned in an enquiry for poor practices. There was no training and they let people out of quarantine without testing them. There is never going to be perfect and then there is a total train wreck that resulted in a lot of people dying.

Inevitable is what has just happened in SA. Virus outbreak but tracing is able to control the damage and keep it minimal. Same as NSW and QLD.

Do not get me wrong, I am glad Dan had the balls to go hard with the second shut down and it was 100% the right thing to do. I am also glad he held his nerve and did not open up things early as now we have zero cases. I am also glad he is making it hard for the Tennis to go ahead.
However his bunch of 8 ministers are 100% to blame for us being forced into the second major shut down. Without their total incompetency the virus would not have spread right through Melbourne. There would have been some outbreaks but if their security and tracing was at a level of other states then the damage would have been far less.
 

ant555

The Oracle
May 4, 2004
21,012
24,599
lurking in the shadows of the matrix
AFL Club
Essendon
Other Teams
Penrith Panthers
It did happen in other places. NSW had a security guard get infected and take public transport to his other job. Ruby Princess happened. WA had some stuff up with a ship disembarking crew, SA had their recent outbreak, NZ has had a couple of leaks from hotel quarantine as well. Around the world there would be countless failures of process or errors of judgement. We'll almost certainly have further escapes before this is all done and dusted.

The pandemic caught the world with it's pants down and when you have to adapt, introduce new programs etc in a hurry mistakes will happen. I'm happier that the relevant departments here seem to have learned from those mistakes than I am unhappy that the mistakes happened in the first place because I'm not convinced the alternative government here would've done any better... just look at Tim Smith's carry-ons throughout all this.
Yes and in all those states it was controlled. It did not force that state into a stage 4 lock down for months nor did it spread throughout the city. There where short lockdowns or lockdowns in certain areas. On top of that the other states where using far more superior tracing systems and better quarantine control. Unless the borders are shut or returning travelers are being sent into isolation somewhere there will always be a few escapes.
The fact you even mention the Ruby Princess shows how much a debacle our system was. Everyone else got to look at that to see what should happen yet we simply refused help and sent in untrained security that where recruited from an app that never had any security experience before let alone experience guarding potentially infected people.
The fact they even used a security company that was not on their recommended list due to poor practices says it all.
It was a total cock up. The pandemic is unpredictable and hard to control and there was and is are going to be flare ups. The Victorian government may well be on top of all of this now and be in the best place to combat it but the f’ed the pooch big time and then continually lied about it until they got caught with their pants down.
Just on the Liberal approach. They have been poor in how they have attacked things as well. Their messaging has been horrible and sometimes I really wonder who exactly creates the messaging for the Victorian Liberals. Who knows if they could have done better but I seriously doubt they would have turned down a federal Liberal off of defense force staff to help with the quarantine program. Other than that who knows they could have been worse in other areas.
That does not change the current fact that very few of those who should be accountable will end up being so.

Here is a question for you ? after the Cedar meats issues why did the government actually reduce their tracing staff once the numbers came back down from that ? Now there was an outbreak that had some issues with tracing and health department contacting issues that showed that the response needed to improve as we where dealing with something new but did we improve anything we did after that ? No we did not.

Dan gets a 10/10 for the response but a 1/10 for the quarantine program that caused it.
 
Last edited:

(Log in to remove this ad.)

ant555

The Oracle
May 4, 2004
21,012
24,599
lurking in the shadows of the matrix
AFL Club
Essendon
Other Teams
Penrith Panthers
NSW got lucky that the oldies who disembarked the ship were happy to stay at home. Their contact tracing isn’t anything special. Trust me, I live here.
It was better after the Ruby Princess. Trust me. In my Job I have to travel to Sydney a few times and you certainly had to provide a lot more information than you did in Victoria. It may not have effected you much as a resident but traveling to Sydney and back I did notice things where a bit tighter and there was more use of apps.
 

DapperJong

Hall of Famer
Feb 11, 2015
42,605
82,031
AFL Club
Essendon
Other Teams
Juventus
It was better after the Ruby Princess. Trust me. In my Job I have to travel to Sydney a few times and you certainly had to provide a lot more information than you did in Victoria. It may not have effected you much as a resident but traveling to Sydney and back I did notice things where a bit tighter and there was more use of apps.
I mean I’m saying it cos it affected me.

It was good enough to trace the low number of active cases that NSW had, but to say Vic should have just implemented that is far too simplistic.

Both the ruby princess and hotel quarantine were monumental stuff ups but one sadly had a more dire result.
 

ant555

The Oracle
May 4, 2004
21,012
24,599
lurking in the shadows of the matrix
AFL Club
Essendon
Other Teams
Penrith Panthers
I mean I’m saying it cos it affected me.

It was good enough to trace the low number of active cases that NSW had, but to say Vic should have just implemented that is far too simplistic.

Both the ruby princess and hotel quarantine were monumental stuff ups but one sadly had a more dire result.
The issue for me is ours happened months after yours and after an official enquiry slammed the NSW Government for it. Yet we seemed to have our head in the sand.
 

DapperJong

Hall of Famer
Feb 11, 2015
42,605
82,031
AFL Club
Essendon
Other Teams
Juventus
The issue for me is ours happened months after yours and after an official enquiry slammed the NSW Government for it. Yet we seemed to have our head in the sand.
That’s a fair point. I would still argue that if the ruby princess infections spread like vics did, we wouldn’t have been stamped with any type of “gold standard”. Both governments were reactionary.
 

TheGreatBarryB

Brownlow Medallist
Mar 20, 2007
26,875
27,276
Melbourne
AFL Club
Essendon
Other Teams
Texans, Astros, Leeds
It did happen in other places. NSW had a security guard get infected and take public transport to his other job. Ruby Princess happened. WA had some stuff up with a ship disembarking crew, SA had their recent outbreak, NZ has had a couple of leaks from hotel quarantine as well. Around the world there would be countless failures of process or errors of judgement. We'll almost certainly have further escapes before this is all done and dusted.

The pandemic caught the world with it's pants down and when you have to adapt, introduce new programs etc in a hurry mistakes will happen. I'm happier that the relevant departments here seem to have learned from those mistakes than I am unhappy that the mistakes happened in the first place because I'm not convinced the alternative government here would've done any better... just look at Tim Smith's carry-ons throughout all this.
Been reported that only difference between here and NSW was super spreader. Not sure about that but both states made mistakes. Other states haven’t had issues because originally the bulk of overseas travellers came to Vic and NSW. Agree re the Libs here in Vic, if it got out under them they would not have tightened lockdowns as much.
 

Lore

Moderator ❀
Dec 14, 2015
21,652
27,507
AFL Club
Essendon
The Australian Defence Force don’t really have any authority domestically, they’re just a pair of hands. You’d think the similarly named Australian Border Force did have authority, but apparently not after Ruby Princess. Even the cops didn’t have the authority to enforce lockdown rules until state of disaster settings came in.

What I’d like to know is where the division of responsibility is for national borders and quarantine (and apparently aged care) between federal and state governments. Up until very recently we were led to believe that ScoMo kept the rabbits out and the states did schools, hospitals and roads (and presumably aged care), which might be why states didn’t have any particular bureaucracy set up to implement diseased rabbit control in the first place?
 

Phone

Brownlow Medallist
Apr 7, 2010
27,176
9,183
La Capanna Restaurant.
AFL Club
Essendon
the quarantine program gets 1/10 because it's pretty disgraceful that australian citizens are literally not allowed to get home because all the state and federal government leaders decided their citizens must be go into hotels, which happens to help subsidize the hotel industry.

failures around that go into deeper structural problems ie nsw had a better contract tracing system because nsw has a better health system as a result of victorian government restructures circa many years ago
 

TheGrizz

Spec Moderator
Sep 29, 2016
4,630
5,710
AFL Club
Essendon
Other Teams
Bayern Munich
I mean I’m saying it cos it affected me.

It was good enough to trace the low number of active cases that NSW had, but to say Vic should have just implemented that is far too simplistic.

Both the ruby princess and hotel quarantine were monumental stuff ups but one sadly had a more dire result.
Couldnt agree more. My issue is with people like the quote above that refuse to admit it was a stuff up, and just say it was inevitable.
 

Mercurial89

Brownlow Medallist
Apr 20, 2011
11,078
14,470
Melbourne
AFL Club
Essendon
the quarantine program gets 1/10 because it's pretty disgraceful that australian citizens are literally not allowed to get home because all the state and federal government leaders decided their citizens must be go into hotels, which happens to help subsidize the hotel industry.

failures around that go into deeper structural problems ie nsw had a better contract tracing system because nsw has a better health system as a result of victorian government restructures circa many years ago
You can't seriously believe that hotel quarantine is a bad concept?
Sure there are issues with the implementation of it but are you really believing the smart thing to do is allow people to come back into the country and stay at their homes? We have numerous examples that people refuse to do as they are told.
 

Phone

Brownlow Medallist
Apr 7, 2010
27,176
9,183
La Capanna Restaurant.
AFL Club
Essendon
And we have Taiwan who doesn't require hotel quarantine, just home quarantine, for their returned citizens and doing just fine. I'm quite confident the Australian government, if they put their minds to it, could have come up with a system that is a mixture of home quarantine with monitoring and hotel quarantine, but instead they went with a (very) quick and easy route, which obviously helped create the Victorian problem of poorly trained guards, etc. And it's been many months now and they don't seem to be thinking of how to transition out of a mandatory hotel quarantine set-up

If the point of the hotel quarantine was to keep Australians safe, well obviously it has failed as it has escaped the hotel in two states now. if it was to create a system which got our citizens home, it has failed as we still have 37,000 citizens who can't get home

and then of course there's the people like Kerry Stokes who get to not do their hotel quarantine.......(lol - Danii Minogue has joined this list now)
 

Red Black and Blue

Brownlow Medallist
Oct 1, 2006
21,478
12,926
Melbourne
AFL Club
Essendon
Other Teams
Everton, Storm, Victory
And we have Taiwan who doesn't require hotel quarantine, just home quarantine, for their returned citizens and doing just fine. I'm quite confident the Australian government, if they put their minds to it, could have come up with a system that is a mixture of home quarantine with monitoring and hotel quarantine, but instead they went with a (very) quick and easy route, which obviously helped create the Victorian problem of poorly trained guards, etc. And it's been many months now and they don't seem to be thinking of how to transition out of a mandatory hotel quarantine set-up

If the point of the hotel quarantine was to keep Australians safe, well obviously it has failed as it has escaped the hotel in two states now. if it was to create a system which got our citizens home, it has failed as we still have 37,000 citizens who can't get home

and then of course there's the people like Kerry Stokes who get to not do their hotel quarantine.......(lol - Danii Minogue has joined this list now)
Bit of a chasm between the average level of responsibility between Taiwanese and Australian citizens that makes it much harder to execute over here.
 

TheGreatBarryB

Brownlow Medallist
Mar 20, 2007
26,875
27,276
Melbourne
AFL Club
Essendon
Other Teams
Texans, Astros, Leeds
And we have Taiwan who doesn't require hotel quarantine, just home quarantine, for their returned citizens and doing just fine. I'm quite confident the Australian government, if they put their minds to it, could have come up with a system that is a mixture of home quarantine with monitoring and hotel quarantine, but instead they went with a (very) quick and easy route, which obviously helped create the Victorian problem of poorly trained guards, etc. And it's been many months now and they don't seem to be thinking of how to transition out of a mandatory hotel quarantine set-up

If the point of the hotel quarantine was to keep Australians safe, well obviously it has failed as it has escaped the hotel in two states now. if it was to create a system which got our citizens home, it has failed as we still have 37,000 citizens who can't get home

and then of course there's the people like Kerry Stokes who get to not do their hotel quarantine.......(lol - Danii Minogue has joined this list now)
Look at the CCTV footage of hotel quarantined going out shopping near the hotels, some knowing they were positive and going into cafes and shops
 

Remove this Banner Ad