Adrian Dodoro

[Yoda_]

You've obviously not watched any of Pittonet. He's been more than just good for Carlton.

Dodo fails again.

You are missing the mark.
Why trade for a bloke who we obviously didn’t rate when our next great white hope should be more than ready to come into no.1 ruck calculations by years end?

You’d be trading for the sake of trading. Phillips seems to understand he is never going to be a first choice ruck but a back up. Good clubman when you think about it.

Pittonet would be holding out Draper whom we gave 4 years too, why would we do that? It would be poor list management, even for Adrian Dodoro


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[Yoda_]

Thats high stakes when your alternatives are TBC and phillips. Esp when draper has zero games under the belt

For whatever reason, in his post-sheedy watch we have neglected rucks and have neglected inside mids
Hence my dubiousness in claims had we kept our picks in 2013 we would have gone cripps and lobb.
Every draft prior and since indicates to me he would have done the opposite.

It feels like Dodoro is stuck in 2014 where athletes were more in vogue than footballers (See Langford/Laverde).


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[Red Black and Blue]

It feels like Dodoro is stuck in 2014 where athletes were more in vogue than footballers (See Langford/Laverde).


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To be fair both of them are capable footballers when played in position.

 

[citizen-erased]

To be fair both of them are capable footballers when played in position.

the 2014 draft didn't reap too many guns from where we had picks.
Miller is probably the only player i'd like on the list over Laverde.
And i like Langford. Kid has good a set of hands, kicks well, can play forward, wing, mid and get back behind in defence.

Laverde keeps breaking down as he gets going.

 

[Jeremias]

the 2014 draft didn't reap too many guns from where we had picks.
Miller is probably the only player i'd like on the list over Laverde.

Jack Steele was taken 4 picks after Laverde. He's no star but is a significantly better footballer and would be a very good fit in the middle for Essendon.

 

[citizen-erased]

Jack Steele was taken 4 picks after Laverde. He's no star but is a significantly better footballer and would be a very good fit in the middle for Essendon.

Academy player.
It wasnt a draft for the ages. Reckon we did as well as we could.
Esp given it was a sanction draft

 

[Ants]

....
Has had a couple of family names drop into his lap (Watson, Merrett, Daniher)
Wouldn't say Essendon has drafted a top 6 midfield in his time at the helm though. That's quite the indictment.

Merrett closest AFL family is a Collingwood playing grand father....

The 2012/2013 midfield was pretty strong. The saga and our fitness staff ended those runs. It was the period we went through 4 heads of our fitness team in a 3 year period.

Jack Steele was taken 4 picks after Laverde. He's no star but is a significantly better footballer and would be a very good fit in the middle for Essendon.

Actually, Steele was taken multiple picks before Langford. Those AFL draft years wikipedia shows the player as picked with the matching pick number, not the original bid. Steele was bid on in the teens.

Someone should probably go and modify those. I think Daniher is shown the same in the 2012 draft entry.

 

[citizen-erased]

Merrett closest AFL family is a Collingwood playing grand father....

The 2012/2013 midfield was pretty strong. The saga and our fitness staff ended those runs. It was the period we went through 4 heads of our fitness team in a 3 year period.


Actually, Steele was taken multiple picks before Langford. Those AFL draft years wikipedia shows the player as picked with the matching pick number, not the original bid. Steele was bid on in the teens.

Someone should probably go and modify those. I think Daniher is shown the same in the 2012 draft entry.

I was more thinking Jackson being the link but fair point. I do wonder how much we would have watched him had his brother not been at the club.

 

[Ambrosia]

Jack Steele was taken 4 picks after Laverde. He's no star but is a significantly better footballer and would be a very good fit in the middle for Essendon.

Laverde has had too many injuries to get a clean run at. Grasping at straws to count him as poor pick imo.

 

[Jeremias]

Academy player.
It wasnt a draft for the ages. Reckon we did as well as we could.
Esp given it was a sanction draft

That's true, I overlooked that.

Regardless I dare say you'd still take him on the list over Laverde.

Laverde has had too many injuries to get a clean run at. Grasping at straws to count him as poor pick imo.

Don't think I said he was a poor pick, but history is littered with examples of players who are considered as such with no consideration of issues such as injury.

 

[Ants]

The fact that Essendon's list is unbalanced with no good, big bodied inside mids and very poor KPF depth is enough to condemn him as a failure and should be moved on or at least have his responsibilities reduced.

He's actually been good at recruitment recently...the Saad/Stringer/Smith deals were all good value and he got Shiel to nominate Essendon despite fierce competition (though paid a lot for him at the trade table).

But Essendon's midfield has way too many small players...Merrett, Smith, McGrath, Parish etc...even Shiel isn't very tall despite being quite muscular. I think it's one of the reasons Parish isn't getting enough centre square/midfield time...the coaches don't want too many small guys in there at once and seem to consider him below Merrett/Smith/McGrath. To compensate, they throw in bigger bodied players like Langford/Stringer/Tippa in there at times but they aren't the genuine inside mid Essendon needs, they are stop gaps because there isn't a proper one on the list fo the coaches to use.

As for key forwards, outside Danniher who's been injured for almost 3 seasons already, Essendon have used the likes of McKernan (who's actually ok as a forward/ruck) and Brown and it's not enough quality to be a top team. To plug the hole Hooker has been thrown forward at times but hasn't made it as a consistent KPF and is now playing defence basically exclusively. Ambrose has also been tried there...again the coaches being forced to use stop gaps. Stringer has now basically been used as an undersized KPF.

On the big bodied midfielders: This is a little unfair, as Heppell and Stringer would both qualify. Injuries to them (and up forward) means that both have had limited ability to play there this year. Its not like its easy to find "big bodied midfielders" who are any good either, how many teams have more than 1 or 2? A lot of the best go with top draft picks, which we've had limited opportunities on.

But you look at the first rounders we used in 2007 to 2011, we went Myers, Melksham, Heppell and Kavanaugh. All meet the tall midfielder requirement. Look at the coaches who wouldn't play Melksham forward, and the injury years that wrecked Myers.

On the tall forwards: at the end of 2017 we had the most efficient forward line in the league (goals per F50 entry). It was centered around Daniher, Hooker and Stewart. We had McKernan as backup, plus Brown, and recruited Stringer who could also play tallish. So backup wasn't too bad at all.

Our problem since is that Daniher and Stewart have hardly been injury free in 3 years, the coaches have played Hooker down back, which means its been entirely our Plan B tall forward line. Given that, it's held up alright. But seriously, what recruiting team is meant to realise that all three talls in our very effective forwardline would hardly play there for the next 3 years in their planning?

Dodoro may say he didn't have enough time to find a replacement for Danniher last year (which i don't actually think is true since the 'catch up with Harley' was in the news way before the trade period...but fact is Danniher has been injured basically since the start of 2018...surely he could have gotten a young KPF through draft or trade in the last few years as a priority?

It's just crazy that year after year he fails to address these 2 key positions of weakness.

This ignores that we took young forwards in both 2018 and 2019. With our second highest pick in 2018, and trading up in 2019 (paying for that upgrade with our 2020 second). You know, since Daniher got injured...

It’s also a huge assumption.
I've seen a stack of Sam over the years and reckon he will be a beauty but he is still learning the game and coming off an ACL injury. I think we have to be wary not to expect too much too soon

It may however have played into Pittonet's thinking. Do we even know if he'd have been willing to come to Essendon, or preferred the opportunities at Carlton? Draper may not be what we hope, but he also would have factored into what we'd pay, you wouldn't want Draper to be going all guns, and have any big money on Pittonet playing in the VFL.

Thats high stakes when your alternatives are TBC and phillips. Esp when draper has zero games under the belt

For whatever reason, in his post-sheedy watch we have neglected rucks and have neglected inside mids
Hence my dubiousness in claims had we kept our picks in 2013 we would have gone cripps and lobb.
Every draft prior and since indicates to me he would have done the opposite.

Lol, you obviously don't know much about Essendon's recruiting. When our 2012/2013 midfield was up and running, the issue that was seen as largest was outside run. And during 2007 to 2011 we took 4 tall mids with our first round picks.

Our issues with rucks are pretty much the Saga. Remember, when Ryder went he was contracted. We had Ryder and Belly. We lost a contracted Ryder for under value, and Belly then hurt his foot. If Ryder stays, we hardly need any rucks. Have a look at the two drafts after Ryder left. Out of the entire 2014 and 2015 drafts, I think the best 2 rucks were Preuss and freaking Mckernan! Pretty thin pickings. The 2016 draft we got Draper. From a drafting point of view, there wasn't a huge amount we could do.

In the meantime we took Leunberger, who was pretty handy as a stand in. We got caught out a little bit when Leuy left in 2018, we'd expected him to stay on another year.

 

[Ambrosia]

On the big bodied midfielders: This is a little unfair, as Heppell and Stringer would both qualify. Injuries to them (and up forward) means that both have had limited ability to play there this year. Its not like its easy to find "big bodied midfielders" who are any good either, how many teams have more than 1 or 2? A lot of the best go with top draft picks, which we've had limited opportunities on.

But you look at the first rounders we used in 2007 to 2011, we went Myers, Melksham, Heppell and Kavanaugh. All meet the tall midfielder requirement. Look at the coaches who wouldn't play Melksham forward, and the injury years that wrecked Myers.

On the tall forwards: at the end of 2017 we had the most efficient forward line in the league (goals per F50 entry). It was centered around Daniher, Hooker and Stewart. We had McKernan as backup, plus Brown, and recruited Stringer who could also play tallish. So backup wasn't too bad at all.

Our problem since is that Daniher and Stewart have hardly been injury free in 3 years, the coaches have played Hooker down back, which means its been entirely our Plan B tall forward line. Given that, it's held up alright. But seriously, what recruiting team is meant to realise that all three talls in our very effective forwardline would hardly play there for the next 3 years in their planning?


This ignores that we took young forwards in both 2018 and 2019. With our second highest pick in 2018, and trading up in 2019 (paying for that upgrade with our 2020 second). You know, since Daniher got injured...


It may however have played into Pittonet's thinking. Do we even know if he'd have been willing to come to Essendon, or preferred the opportunities at Carlton? Draper may not be what we hope, but he also would have factored into what we'd pay, you wouldn't want Draper to be going all guns, and have any big money on Pittonet playing in the VFL.

Lol, you obviously don't know much about Essendon's recruiting. When our 2012/2013 midfield was up and running, the issue that was seen as largest was outside run. And during 2007 to 2011 we took 4 tall mids with our first round picks.

Our issues with rucks are pretty much the Saga. Remember, when Ryder went he was contracted. We had Ryder and Belly. We lost a contracted Ryder for under value, and Belly then hurt his foot. If Ryder stays, we hardly need any rucks. Have a look at the two drafts after Ryder left. Out of the entire 2014 and 2015 drafts, I think the best 2 rucks were Preuss and freaking Mckernan! Pretty thin pickings. The 2016 draft we got Draper. From a drafting point of view, there wasn't a huge amount we could do.

In the meantime we took Leunberger, who was pretty handy as a stand in. We got caught out a little bit when Leuy left in 2018, we'd expected him to stay on another year.

I think you raise some good points but it is fair to say we have neglected pure mids. Myers was a HBF in juniors, Melksham was a flanker/wingman and Kavanugh wasn't up to it.

Agree Pittonet was never gonna come to us after we signed Draper up for 4 years.

 

[HirdyLannister]

On the big bodied midfielders: This is a little unfair, as Heppell and Stringer would both qualify. Injuries to them (and up forward) means that both have had limited ability to play there this year. Its not like its easy to find "big bodied midfielders" who are any good either, how many teams have more than 1 or 2? A lot of the best go with top draft picks, which we've had limited opportunities on.

But you look at the first rounders we used in 2007 to 2011, we went Myers, Melksham, Heppell and Kavanaugh. All meet the tall midfielder requirement. Look at the coaches who wouldn't play Melksham forward, and the injury years that wrecked Myers.

On the tall forwards: at the end of 2017 we had the most efficient forward line in the league (goals per F50 entry). It was centered around Daniher, Hooker and Stewart. We had McKernan as backup, plus Brown, and recruited Stringer who could also play tallish. So backup wasn't too bad at all.

Our problem since is that Daniher and Stewart have hardly been injury free in 3 years, the coaches have played Hooker down back, which means its been entirely our Plan B tall forward line. Given that, it's held up alright. But seriously, what recruiting team is meant to realise that all three talls in our very effective forwardline would hardly play there for the next 3 years in their planning?


This ignores that we took young forwards in both 2018 and 2019. With our second highest pick in 2018, and trading up in 2019 (paying for that upgrade with our 2020 second). You know, since Daniher got injured...


It may however have played into Pittonet's thinking. Do we even know if he'd have been willing to come to Essendon, or preferred the opportunities at Carlton? Draper may not be what we hope, but he also would have factored into what we'd pay, you wouldn't want Draper to be going all guns, and have any big money on Pittonet playing in the VFL.

Lol, you obviously don't know much about Essendon's recruiting. When our 2012/2013 midfield was up and running, the issue that was seen as largest was outside run. And during 2007 to 2011 we took 4 tall mids with our first round picks.

Our issues with rucks are pretty much the Saga. Remember, when Ryder went he was contracted. We had Ryder and Belly. We lost a contracted Ryder for under value, and Belly then hurt his foot. If Ryder stays, we hardly need any rucks. Have a look at the two drafts after Ryder left. Out of the entire 2014 and 2015 drafts, I think the best 2 rucks were Preuss and freaking Mckernan! Pretty thin pickings. The 2016 draft we got Draper. From a drafting point of view, there wasn't a huge amount we could do.

In the meantime we took Leunberger, who was pretty handy as a stand in. We got caught out a little bit when Leuy left in 2018, we'd expected him to stay on another year.

Forgot Zac Clark, gun ruck

 

[C4[2]Yo`DooR]

Can we blame him for Goaner Tutlan as well?

 

[Red Black and Blue]

I think you raise some good points but it is fair to say we have neglected pure mids. Myers was a HBF in juniors, Melksham was a flanker/wingman and Kavanugh wasn't up to it.

Agree Pittonet was never gonna come to us after we signed Draper up for 4 years.

Melksham got drafted off a b.o.g performance in the tac cup final where he played in the guts.

 

[Ants]

I think you raise some good points but it is fair to say we have neglected pure mids. Myers was a HBF in juniors, Melksham was a flanker/wingman and Kavanugh wasn't up to it.

Agree Pittonet was never gonna come to us after we signed Draper up for 4 years.

My memory is that Melksham dominated through the guts in the TAC finals. With Myers he did play a lot off HB in the championships playing the Goddard role due to his excellent disposal and a very strong WA midfield.

I would also question how we developed Melksham. My memory of his best period with us was in late 2012 when due to injuries he was given time in the guts. But when everyone was back he was pushed to the HF line again.

Edit: checked, it was late 2013 with the injuries, not 2012. Across the last 7 rounds he averaged 21.3 disposals, 4.6 clearances, 4.9 marks, 3.1 tackles and 1.1 goals, 0.4 behinds a game. An average of 4 or more clearances a game for the year meant you were top 50 in the AFL in 2013. 2013 was his 4th year in the AFL.

 

[Red Black and Blue]

My memory is that Melksham dominated through the guts in the TAC finals. With Myers he did play a lot off HB in the championships playing the Goddard role due to his excellent disposal and a very strong WA midfield.

I would also question how we developed Melksham. My memory of his best period with us was in 2012 when due to injuries he was given time in the guts. But when everyone was back he was pushed to the HF line again.

Melksham had a hell of a four game block. He was averaging about 30 and kicking more than a goal a game.

 

[Ants]

Forgot Zac Clark, gun ruck

He was picked up by that comment about Leuy. We expected Leuy to stay another year, but found out he wasn't reasonably close to the trade period. That gave us limited time to source a replacement. Remember also, Zac was probably one of the highest performing state based rucks; it just shows how big the current gulf in rucks are between the states and AFL.