Essendon/Hird v ASADA Trial - Day 1

[CakeEater]

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2014/aug/11/james-hird-i-disagreed-with-essendons-asada-request

what a guy.

 

[King Patty]

Yep but an awful lot will have to come out in Hird's favour to overcome the disregard a lot of the public seem to have for him. And even then, the damage might be too hard to undo.

Yeh part of the reason everything is so anti hird is from the AFL "Communication specialists" spreading the narrative that this is the trial of James Hird rather than what it should have been which was a independent investigation of whether a doping infraction had occurred.

If anyone had read some of the information leaked from the court documents where Gillon Mclaclan made it clear to ASADA that this process had nothing to do with the health and welfare of the players but was all about protecting business and its investment in the AFL"

AFL's game plan was isolate Hird. Blame Dank & Robinson as Rogue operators and deflect from other cubs who may have been pushing the boundaries further - re Goldcoast - Bock CJC

 

[BlueWorld]

Here's a good summary of the day:

http://sociallitigator.com/2014/08/11/reading-the-tea-leaves-essendon-v-asada-opening-submissions/

 

[Tas]

It will only be incriminating if David Evans comes out and says vlad tipped him off....for all we know Evans may have mates at ALP or high places.

But most people can read through the lines, it would kinda be funny if the first person charged by ACC was demetriou. I doubt that would happen, he would rather spend his final days in greece than in gaol.

This is what I don't understand... Even if he did tip off Essendon, how does it change anything? At that point in time the alleged crime had been done and Essendon had already sacked Stank.

Vlad tipping off Essendon would have done nothing other than helped them to minimise the collateral damage.

 

[carnthemlions]

Tim Watson calls ASADA's bluff

Tim Watson has called ASADA’s bluff, questioning whether the anti-doping body would launch a second investigation into the Bombers' supplements program and re-issue "show-cause" notices to 34 players if they did not win the Federal Court case that began on Monday .

The former Essendon great, who has been a regular voice on developments due to his media commitments, spoke out again on Monday night, labelling the offer of reduced suspensions and the issuing of “show-cause” notices to former and current players as a “fishing expedition” by ASADA.

Lawyers for ASADA reiterated their “absolute” intention in the Federal Court on Monday to re-open the case against some Essendon officials and 34 players in the event the judge ruled the original joint investigation between ASADA and the AFL was unlawful.

ASADA lawyers did so having been asked directly by Judge John Middleton.

On Channel Seven, Watson was asked how he felt about the possibility of his son, Essendon captain Jobe, and teammates being put through the stress of another investigation. He responded by casting doubt on ASADA's intention to do so.

“There has been a lot of times throughout all this where I’m not quite sure what to believe," Watson said on Talking Foot.

“There has been a lot of bluff, a lot of creation of narrative that has taken place right through this last 18 months.

“So in regard to [a second investigation], I’m not sure that’s the case. I think there’s a bit of a fishing expedition that has already gone on - which is the 34 show-cause notices and the fact that they have been offered a six-month penalty that they could have served in the off-season.

“Now, if you’ve seriously got some evidence against a group of players, why would the penalty be so soft? If that’s your opening penalty, why would it be so soft?

“I’m not sure that this is anything more than a fishing expedition on behalf of ASADA, but this will play out.

"The whole reason Essendon took this [Federal Court] action was because they did not want this to be prolonged.

“Now, if ASADA are saying that, and let’s believe that’s what they are going to do [launch another investigation], it will just mean that they go to the next course of action - which means this drags on for another six, 12, 18 months.”

Great point Tim.

Tim Watson.
lolololol

 

[The King!]

This is what I don't understand... Even if he did tip off Essendon, how does it change anything? At that point in time the alleged crime had been done and Essendon had already sacked Stank.

Vlad tipping off Essendon would have done nothing other than helped them to minimise the collateral damage.

king patty thinks vlad tipping them off means Essendon are innocent victims

 

[chelseacarlton]

Mick Warner commentry from todays play
"EFC were 2/78 at lunch on a sticky wicket then hird came in and scored 103 and is not out at stumps."

Will be interesting listening to Hird & Aurora Andruska tomorrow. Its good she took good notes.

Pfft sounded more like he padded most away or just left most to the keeper.He played his only stroke and tubbed (threw under the bus)(someone else responsible for that abbreviation) one to the boundary for 4.
He's still at the crease,but he's stuck on 4 and unless he tubbs a few more, I can't see him making double figures.

 

[Armchair Critic]

All Hail Dear Leader.

I got a thread ban for posting a picture of AD in a Thread, I hope the UMP's are consistent

 

[STANTS]

That would mean Essendon will "fire" the players that get suspended? They can't get an expanded list.

Obviously these players would go back into the draft once they have served their suspensions ... wonder how Essendon supporters would feel seeing Watson in Collingwood colours?

Would not really sit right at all the thought makes me feel sick. What's the alternative that's better? Would the afl give essendon first option on the players I'm not sure. How many would essendon actually want back if they were suspended for one year it maybe less than people think. If two years would be less again they may have kids in the second year if two year suspensions happened that are just starting to play well and show there potential after the work the club had put into them over the last two years.

 

[King Patty]

Hird isnt playing on Essendons side he is his own man

Your signature is interesting....and very apt in this instance. Given the amount of untruths that have been pronounced as fact and the mob believe every word....Just remember all the media commentators trying to take Jobes brownlow off him, when Asada would have had rocks in their head to try and go after Essendon on AOD.

Remember Hird said when he gets his chance to tell his side of the story we will be in a good place.

 

[mediumsizered]

Yep mud sticks, particularly when people are too stupid to see that they've been fed a bullshit narrative.

I'm sure the penny will drop with you eventually.

 

[go team]

Vlad tipping off Essendon would have done nothing other than helped them to minimise the collateral damage.

So it changed something.

 

[romeoh]

Yeh part of the reason everything is so anti hird is from the AFL "Communication specialists" spreading the narrative that this is the trial of James Hird rather than what it should have been which was a independent investigation of whether a doping infraction had occurred.

If anyone had read some of the information leaked from the court documents where Gillon Mclaclan made it clear to ASADA that this process had nothing to do with the health and welfare of the players but was all about protecting business and its investment in the AFL"

AFL's game plan was isolate Hird. Blame Dank & Robinson as Rogue operators and deflect from other cubs who may have been pushing the boundaries further - re Goldcoast - Bock CJC

Yep that is what remains to be seen and you may be right, but its a long way back for Hird I would have thought
Of course Hird has had a pretty good PR machine working for him to and it hasn't been able to cast him in a good enough light to this point I don't think.

 

[The King!]

Your signature is interesting....and very apt in this instance. Given the amount of untruths that have been pronounced as fact and the mob believe every word....Just remember all the media commentators trying to take Jobes brownlow off him, when Asada would have had rocks in their head to try and go after Essendon on AOD.

Remember Hird said when he gets his chance to tell his side of the story we will be in a good place.

A court room is a good place?

 

[byronstjames]

Yep that is what remains to be seen and you may be right, but its a long way back for Hird I would have thought
Of course Hird has had a pretty good PR machine working for him to and it hasn't been able to cast him in a good enough light to this point I don't think.

Pretty hard when you're gagged from saying ANYTHING.

 

[The King!]

If David Evans had listened to Hird rather than his mates we may not be in this predicament....Great Idea demetriou....self reporting

Vlad randomly picked a club to self report of course

 

[BlueWorld]

Caro says Vlad did not know for certain.

The AFL has always disputed it definitively knew that Essendon was the club at the centre of doping allegations after it was briefed by the Australian Crime Commission. Both Andrew Demetriou and Gillon McLachlan have always stressed this despite having the strongest of suspicions that the Bombers were the club.

It is understood that both the current boss McLachlan and his predecessor still deny they left the meeting on January 31, 2013 with a definite answer and there is even genuine dispute as to whether the ACC’s director of operations, Paul Jevtovic, actually uttered the words “say no more” after McLachlan asked: “Is it Essendon.” The AFL Commission’s version of events is that the ACC refused to confirm the club involved.

Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-ne...snt-get-it-20140811-102xza.html#ixzz3A5Jpa4lG

 

[The King!]

Pretty hard when you're gagged from saying ANYTHING.

Paid handsomely not to say anything you mean?

 

[Armchair Critic]

Your signature is interesting....and very apt in this instance. Given the amount of untruths that have been pronounced as fact and the mob believe every word....Just remember all the media commentators trying to take Jobes brownlow off him, when Asada would have had rocks in their head to try and go after Essendon on AOD.

Remember Hird said when he gets his chance to tell his side of the story we will be in a good place.

What is wrong with telling his story to CAS if he wants to take it that far

 

[BlueWorld]

You really don't know much do you?

Has no impact on reduced penalties should they apply, because it's for players not club. Players aren't part of this action.

Yes we know why players aren't part of the action but ASADA aren't stupid, so the offer of reduced penalties will be gone.

 

[The King!]

What is wrong with telling his story to CAS if he wants to take it that far

He might incriminate himself

 

[mediumsizered]

If David Evans had listened to Hird rather than his mates we may not be in this predicament....Great Idea demetriou....self reporting

Of course. If Evans had gone along with the cover up of course you wouldn't be in this predicament. Better still, if Hird hadn't decided, after his team were pantsed in the 2011 EF, that the only way to become competitive was to hire Dank & go down the doping path, no one would be in this predicament & the EFC could have paid $5 million off the debt for the Flight Path instead of lining the pockets of several lawyers.

Hird is no hero. He is the reason this whole thing is being played out.

 

[King Patty]

This is what I don't understand... Even if he did tip off Essendon, how does it change anything? At that point in time the alleged crime had been done and Essendon had already sacked Stank.

Vlad tipping off Essendon would have done nothing other than helped them to minimise the collateral damage.

If the investigation was private not public it may have let the investigators to come to their conclusion without constant pressure from Government, AFl, media etc......

And we all know why the story started in the first place - it was a beat up to take the ALP woes off the front cover.

A lot of the bad press the AFL received last year via negative stories about Essendon was them softening the public for them to be kicked out of finals and penalised. For the AFL to demand the interim report before finals is a farce. Then to ahve that document doctored to take the parts out that dont help our cause of banishing essendon from the finals series.

And there is a red herring in the Switzkoski report where it may have been edited to give the AFL something to hang essendon on government....."pharmacuological experimental" for instance.

Lots of dead bodies to be dragged out yet in this investigation.

 

[DonsRule]

This is what I don't understand... Even if he did tip off Essendon, how does it change anything? At that point in time the alleged crime had been done and Essendon had already sacked Stank.

Vlad tipping off Essendon would have done nothing other than helped them to minimise the collateral damage.

But, did he help create false information to produce that outcome?


Was he spooked by what he knew of the ACC report. Did not want players suspended, so helped engineer a out of control football department (pressuring ASADA to make a tailored report) Maybe even the Ziggy report. It did contain real information, but was it tailored to produce an outcome in a worst case scenario?

Happy for the football department to take the blame if players get off.

But, what happens if the infomration Vlad thought he knew was inaccurate by the time ASADA really finished. And, did their PR game get too big that they had no way back, especially once it became personal with Hird and Vlad. (If Vlad did tip them off, with ACC privlidged information, and looked at 2 years jail, would he protect himself and how) if that makes sense. Not sure it came out in my typing as much as my mind.


Not to say that did happen just did the AFL end up creating a lot more damage than they really had to.

 

[The King!]

If the investigation was private not public it may have let the investigators to come to their conclusion without constant pressure from Government, AFl, media etc......

And we all know why the story started in the first place - it was a beat up to take the ALP woes off the front cover.

A lot of the bad press the AFL received last year via negative stories about Essendon was them softening the public for them to be kicked out of finals and penalised. For the AFL to demand the interim report before finals is a farce. Then to ahve that document doctored to take the parts out that dont help our cause of banishing essendon from the finals series.

And there is a red herring in the Switzkoski report where it may have been edited to give the AFL something to hang essendon on government....."pharmacuological experimental" for instance.

Lots of dead bodies to be dragged out yet in this investigation.

Can the rest of us attend your next private briefing where you collect all of these "facts"