Club Focus Essendon 2020 - Caldwell, Hund, Wright, Cox, Perkins, Reid, Eyre, Brand

[Lore]

Data from footywire. To check the draft order (updated weekly) see the thread here.

 

[longdonkey]

Any source for any of this, or is this just the vicco bias vibe?

Brisbane didn't have to change their offer to Daniher, but they ran the risk that Essendon matched forcing a trade and making it messy.

Saints from all reports basically said this is what we're offering, you can keep Crouch if you match it.

Complete bollocks the Saints were preparing to trade Luke Dunstan

27

Luke Dunstan

Age

29

Ht

185cm

Wt

86kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

20.7

5star

K

10.1

4star

HB

10.6

5star

M

3.3

3star

T

4.8

5star

CL

4.4

5star

D

21.0

5star

K

13.0

5star

HB

8.0

4star

M

3.0

3star

T

9.0

5star

CL

2.0

4star

D

18.2

5star

K

6.0

3star

HB

12.2

5star

M

2.4

3star

T

6.2

5star

CL

4.2

5star

to the Crows and part of Dunstan's salary was to be added to Crouch's salary to make up the number to get Band 1 comp. AFL got wind of it and said stop. Probably Dodoro who phoned them - the type of dog act I would expect. After that wasn't allowed then Crouch got the initial offer which was not enough for Band 1.
And Brisbane didn't have to change their offer but they did not have picks to trade for him so it was rather convenient the changed offer got Band 1 and for no extra money they got him for no picks. Like I said one team get away with it another doesn't.

 

[longdonkey]

Any source for any of this, or is this just the vicco bias vibe?

Brisbane didn't have to change their offer to Daniher, but they ran the risk that Essendon matched forcing a trade and making it messy.

Saints from all reports basically said this is what we're offering, you can keep Crouch if you match it.

As for sources all of this is open in the media you just have to analyse what would be a possible catalyst for this to happen.

 

[WN123]

Personally I think you're looking at the wrong end of the draft trying to find the shortcomings of your list.

You've had very few good players come from picks over 30 and rookies. Draper & Tippenwuddi being the exceptions.

Francis & Parish weren't surprise picks and are good players. Its not unusual that a top 5 pick doesn't become a champion.

Spot on. A lot of focus on Dodoros trading but he’s OK there. Our drafting however is ordinary. A thread on the main board talks about best three consecutive picks. We struggle to find two in a row.

 

[owen87]

Complete bollocks the Saints were preparing to trade Luke Dunstan

27

Luke Dunstan

Age

29

Ht

185cm

Wt

86kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

20.7

5star

K

10.1

4star

HB

10.6

5star

M

3.3

3star

T

4.8

5star

CL

4.4

5star

D

21.0

5star

K

13.0

5star

HB

8.0

4star

M

3.0

3star

T

9.0

5star

CL

2.0

4star

D

18.2

5star

K

6.0

3star

HB

12.2

5star

M

2.4

3star

T

6.2

5star

CL

4.2

5star

to the Crows and part of Dunstan's salary was to be added to Crouch's salary to make up the number to get Band 1 comp. AFL got wind of it and said stop. Probably Dodoro who phoned them - the type of dog act I would expect. After that wasn't allowed then Crouch got the initial offer which was not enough for Band 1.
And Brisbane didn't have to change their offer but they did not have picks to trade for him so it was rather convenient the changed offer got Band 1 and for no extra money they got him for no picks. Like I said one team get away with it another doesn't.

Brisbane had 2 x 2020 First Round selections plus a 2021 Future First, they definitely had the currency to get a trade done if they didn't want to modify the contract.

I'm not sure how Dodoro would be dobbing in Adelaide & St Kilda's rumoured shenanigans when it was being speculated (note, nothing actually ever occurred) in the media that it might (again, note, never actually occurred) be done. Keeping in mind the AFL media has been consistently wrong on a whole raft of things so "analysing" anything they say is just as likely to result in it being a lie.

So you're upset that Brisbane came to the party by modifying Daniher's contract to ensure they wouldn't have to trade, whilst St Kilda basically didn't give a s**t what the Crows got.

 

[owen87]

Spot on. A lot of focus on Dodoros trading but he’s OK there. Our drafting however is ordinary. A thread on the main board talks about best three consecutive picks. We struggle to find two in a row.

His drafting is fairly well average across the stretch, even if you look at guys like Wells (Geelong) or Wright (Hawthorn) they have a lot of misses in their time.

It's more the type of player they're trading and drafting.

We had Merrett on the list in 2015 (180cm) then drafted Parish (181cm), at the end of 2016 we drafted McGrath (178cm) then at the end of 2017 traded in Smith (174cm) followed by adding Shiel (182cm) at the end of 2018. We've now added Caldwell (183cm) at the end of 2020.

In isolation they're all decent players and selections, but they're not complementary.

Parish in isolation, will likely play 200+ AFL games (he's sitting on 93 at 23 years old), which is a good selection. But did it then make sense to keep adding players that are a similar size to Parish after that?

 

[longdonkey]

Brisbane had 2 x 2020 First Round selections plus a 2021 Future First, they definitely had the currency to get a trade done if they didn't want to modify the contract.

I'm not sure how Dodoro would be dobbing in Adelaide & St Kilda's rumoured shenanigans when it was being speculated (note, nothing actually ever occurred) in the media that it might (again, note, never actually occurred) be done. Keeping in mind the AFL media has been consistently wrong on a whole raft of things so "analysing" anything they say is just as likely to result in it being a lie.

So you're upset that Brisbane came to the party by modifying Daniher's contract to ensure they wouldn't have to trade, whilst St Kilda basically didn't give a sh*t what the Crows got.

No that's not what I'm saying. What I am saying is there is a high likelihood that Brisbane changed their offer so Essendon would receive Band 1 compensation. While St Kilda and Adelaide hatched their own plan which would get Adelaide Band 1 compensation and relieve salary cap pressure on them. One was allowed by the AFL the other wasn't.

 

[owen87]

No that's not what I'm saying. What I am saying is there is a high likelihood that Brisbane changed their offer so Essendon would receive Band 1 compensation. While St Kilda and Adelaide hatched their own plan which would get Adelaide Band 1 compensation and relieve salary cap pressure on them. One was allowed by the AFL the other wasn't.

You mean the rumoured plan, that was speculated about, that never actually occurred?

So again, your issue is that the Saints didn't give a s**t what Adelaide got, and were unwilling to trade.

There's no AFL conspiracy here, it's pretty simple.

 

[longdonkey]

You mean the rumoured plan, that was speculated about, that never actually occurred?

So again, your issue is that the Saints didn't give a sh*t what Adelaide got, and were unwilling to trade.

There's no AFL conspiracy here, it's pretty simple.

Motlop $500k for 4 years Band 2
Rockliff $700k for 4 years Band 2

Two different rules one for some Vic clubs one for the rest

 

[longdonkey]

You mean the rumoured plan, that was speculated about, that never actually occurred?

So again, your issue is that the Saints didn't give a sh*t what Adelaide got, and were unwilling to trade.

There's no AFL conspiracy here, it's pretty simple.

You do realise it was in St Kilda's best interest to do this deal because they would have cleared salary cap. However, when Treloar became available if Adelaide had matched their bid they would have gorged on the rotting carcass of Collingwood and got Treloar instead.

 

[owen87]

Motlop $500k for 4 years Band 2
Rockliff $700k for 4 years Band 2

Two different rules one for some Vic clubs one for the rest

The AFL's secret formula for free agency compensation

Length of contract is largely irrelevant, but a one-year age gap can make a big difference.

www.theage.com.au

Alternatively, there's a logical explanation other than herp derp vic bias corrupt AFL?

Band 1 is Top 5%
Band 2 is Top 15%

There's a 10% window in there, for a start.

Band 3 is Top 30%

So a 15% window.

 

[owen87]

You do realise it was in St Kilda's best interest to do this deal because they would have cleared salary cap. However, when Treloar became available if Adelaide had matched their bid they would have gorged on the rotting carcass of Collingwood and got Treloar instead.

So why didn't they do a deal? If Adelaide wanted a player, St Kilda could have easily offloaded them cheap.

Collingwood did it with Philips
Brisbane did it with Witherden
Gold Coast did it with Wright

It happens all the time.

So maybe that it didn't happen, suggest it wasn't actually going to happen.

Of course some anti-SA conspiracy makes for a much more dramatic story, instead of St Kilda simply refusing to move on their contract offer and telling Adelaide if they match they can keep Crouch.

 

[longdonkey]

So why didn't they do a deal? If Adelaide wanted a player, St Kilda could have easily offloaded them cheap.

Collingwood did it with Philips
Brisbane did it with Witherden
Gold Coast did it with Wright

It happens all the time.

So maybe that it didn't happen, suggest it wasn't actually going to happen.

Of course some anti-SA conspiracy makes for a much more dramatic story, instead of St Kilda simply refusing to move on their contract offer and telling Adelaide if they match they can keep Crouch.

Adelaide didn't really want the player but they wanted the compensation pick. There's no point arguing with somebody who denies something exists when there is plenty of reporting on it. Nobody made up the Dunstan deal and they even name the AFL official who quashed it. So to say it was just a rumour and didn't happen, its like arguing with Trump or Dodoro. You live in an alternate reality.

 

[eth-dog]

Motlop $500k for 4 years Band 2
Rockliff $700k for 4 years Band 2

Two different rules one for some Vic clubs one for the rest

Well bringing in Motlop would have affected the Rockliff compensation. That's always the way Free Agency has worked

 

[owen87]

Adelaide didn't really want the player but they wanted the compensation pick. There's no point arguing with somebody who denies something exists when there is plenty of reporting on it. Nobody made up the Dunstan deal and they even name the AFL official who quashed it. So to say it was just a rumour and didn't happen, its like arguing with Trump or Dodoro. You live in an alternate reality.

Exactly, so St Kilda called their bluff and said "if you match, he's yours".

You can speculate about rumours all you like, but plenty of clubs have salary dumped players without any problems, so I'd be sceptical if suddenly the AFL specifically got upset about a South Australian club doing the same thing that Collingwood, Gold Coast or Brisbane just did.

 

[longdonkey]

Well bringing in Motlop would have affected the Rockliff compensation. That's always the way Free Agency has worked

no both went to port one from Brisbane the other from Geelong. Both the same year. Comp was the same despite 200k difference in salary

 

[eth-dog]

no both went to port one from Brisbane the other from Geelong. Both the same year. Comp was the same despite 200k difference in salary

Sorry, I got confused.

In any case, why do you care? As a Port fan I thought you'd be happy that Adelaide got a lesser compensation pick. I certainly would if Hawthorn or Carlton did.

 

[longdonkey]

Sorry, I got confused.

In any case, why do you care? As a Port fan I thought you'd be happy that Adelaide got a lesser compensation pick. I certainly would if Hawthorn or Carlton did.

Oh - I think its hilarious. This is just an on-going argument that started when I said there are 2 sets of rules and the fact that the AFL don't disclose the compensation rules pretty much proves that. And since its just a to and fro that Owen says the whole Dunstan thing to Adelaide so they got Band 1 compo is just a rumour while there is far too much detail to just be a Tom Browne moment make some more s**t up.

 

[owen87]

Oh - I think its hilarious. This is just an on-going argument that started when I said there are 2 sets of rules and the fact that the AFL don't disclose the compensation rules pretty much proves that. And since its just a to and fro that Owen says the whole Dunstan thing to Adelaide so they got Band 1 compo is just a rumour while there is far too much detail to just be a Tom Browne moment make some more sh*t up.

I don't know what to say, we've seen a number of clubs off-loading players as salary dumps this season, without problems. Yet the AFL specifically blocked Dunstan from being moved to Adelaide? To stop St Kilda from offering a high enough salary to Crouch to guarantee Pick 2?

For the AFL the easiest and most expedient option would have simply being giving Adelaide Pick 2 and no one would have even questioned it, such was the expectation.

Yet instead you've created an anti-SA conspiracy.

The simple answer is that St Kilda didn't come to the party to put out a deal that guaranteed Adelaide Band 1 compo, because they just didn't care that much about what Adelaide would get. Bad luck Adelaide.

 

[JasRulz63]

Brisbane and Port supposedly tried what Adelaide and St. Kilda were reportedly trying to do when Rockliff was a free agent, and Lobbe was the salary dump. It was blocked at that time too, so it was predictable that it'd be blocked this time.

With Daniher, it seems like Brisbane were wanting to mitigate the risk (of Daniher and his injury history) by offering an incentive based 5 year deal. However to avoid a messy trade situation where we lost our first round picks (see Cameron), we decided to mitigate our risk by shortening the contract instead.

The rules supposedly state that years of the contract aren't as important as the per year figure, and Brisbane took advantage of that. It's not really that surprising that the AFL looked poorly upon shifting other players' salaries to increase compensation.

 

[longdonkey]

Brisbane and Port supposedly tried what Adelaide and St. Kilda were reportedly trying to do when Rockliff was a free agent, and Lobbe was the salary dump. It was blocked at that time too, so it was predictable that it'd be blocked this time.

With Daniher, it seems like Brisbane were wanting to mitigate the risk (of Daniher and his injury history) by offering an incentive based 5 year deal. However to avoid a messy trade situation where we lost our first round picks (see Cameron), we decided to mitigate our risk by shortening the contract instead.

The rules supposedly state that years of the contract aren't as important as the per year figure, and Brisbane took advantage of that. It's not really that surprising that the AFL looked poorly upon shifting other players' salaries to increase compensation.

What you have said there is 100% correct. And by the way I don't blame any clubs for trying to rort this system anyone would do the same thing. What I don't like is the AFL look the other way in some circumstances Vickery, give sweet deals to others - Geelong for Motlop. But don't look the other way for others Port/Brisbane for The Pig and Stains and Cows for Crouch.

Then they change the rules for Academies when it doesn't work out the way that they wanted it to but were quite happy with the inequity of the father/son system for 20 years.

 

[Lore]

Interesting little breakdown of what we could do with 6/7/8.

 

[citizen-erased]

so many options

6 & 7 move up into top 5 (seems risky for me) & add 2x DFA/MSD
split one or both of 7 & 8 into later/future picks.

Do we take the 3 plus 2 NGA and go a DFA/MSD pick.
or split a top 10 into 2 and take 4x 1st rd picks & 2x NGAs (i prefer this option given the lack of depth we have around the ground)

Hollands/McDonald + Perkins
or
Perkins, Cox, Bruhn
or
Perkins, Cox, split 8 into 16 & F1 from Pies & take O'Driscoll
or
6 -> GWS for 10 & 15 (Cox, O'Driscoll)
7 -> Perkins
8 (&2021 F3s) -> 16 & Pies F1 (Maher)

+ Brand & Eyre in each scenario

 

[VineValerian]

Dons could select Borlase at pick 8, and make the Crows match the bid?

 

[eth-dog]

Dons could select Borlase at pick 8, and make the Crows match the bid?

Yeah, let's bid a top 10 pick on a bloke that is rated widely in the 40's. No chance at all.

 

[Northernsoul74]

Dons could select Borlase at pick 8, and make the Crows match the bid?

I think the Crows would pass.