Essendon Players choose their Judge

[tesla1962]

It's not appealing. It's double jeopardy.

Tin foil hat

Whether you agree with it or not, it is clearly a form of double jeopardy in its broadest sense.

I see a need for it in the context of international doping in order to deal with clear 'home town' decisions. I don't believe the tribunal decision was a home town decision.

The irony is that it is you rather than fishardan that is wearing the tin foil hat, given you are clearly in the 'tribunal was corrupt' camp.

 

[LoungeLizard]

Whether you agree with it or not, it is clearly a form of double jeopardy in its broad sense.

I see a need for it in the context of international doping in order to deal with clear 'home town' decisions. I don't believe the tribunal decision was a home town decision.

The irony is that it is more you than fishardan that is wearing the tin foil hat, given you are clearly in the 'tribunal was corrupt' camp. Not sure if you are as bad at irony as you are with accuracy and details.

do you actually know what it means?

 

[Ancient Tiger]

Whether you agree with it or not, it is clearly a form of double jeopardy in its broad sense.

I see a need for it in the context of international doping in order to deal with clear 'home town' decisions. I don't believe the tribunal decision was a home town decision.

The irony is that it is more you than fishardan that is wearing the tin foil hat, given you are clearly in the 'tribunal was corrupt' camp. Not sure if you are as bad at irony as you are with accuracy and details.

If the players were found guilty and then appealed, why would that be OK yet this is double jeopardy?

 

[tesla1962]

do you actually know what it means?

You won't take my word for it.

http://nswcourts.com.au/articles/what-is-double-jeopardy/

 

[LoungeLizard]

You won't take my word for it.

http://nswcourts.com.au/articles/what-is-double-jeopardy/

Ok, read it, then you will understand what double jeopardy means.

 

[tesla1962]

If the players were found guilty and then appealed, why would that be OK yet this is double jeopardy?

I am not talking about the players or even saying that the appeal is unfair as there are arguments for and against. I was merely agreeing with fishardan that what has happened is a form of double jeopardy in its broadest sense and pointing out the irony in coutryrabbit's ridiculous rejoinder to fishardan about tin foil hats.

 

[Kerleys Ghost]

You won't take my word for it.

http://nswcourts.com.au/articles/what-is-double-jeopardy/

It's not double jeopardy, it's an appeal.

Regardless, double jeopardy doesn't apply in these matters.

You're not very smart.

 

[Reality rules]

It's not appealing. It's double jeopardy.

Fish I beg to differ.

Correct me if I'm wrong that WADA is considering Appealing the decision handed down from the AFL Tribunal. This Appeal process is under the AFL PED Policies / Procedures and ASADA / WADA Codes. It was clearly stated that all parties reserved the right to Appeal a 'decision' if in the event any party felt aggrieved either by a ruling and or penalty prior to the first decisions being handed down.

Moreover, the players had always stated that they would appeal a 'guilty' verdict if any allegations were proved. The Governing Authority WADA has at it's disposal and discretion to Appeal and have the case heard by CAS. If I was supremely confident of the players innocence and have no case to answer, I would welcome the appeal with that supreme confidence.

Are you supremely confident?

Notwithstanding any issues of confidence, if WADA do proceed to the CAS, we can all be under no illusion that the final outcome will be final. With that confidence of a CAS decision, any real or perceived inadequacies of the AFL's conduct/ behavior, Policies / Procedures and or any manipulation of the Tribunal will be laid bare.

In essence the Appeal may even lead to 'worlds best practices' when managing PED's in the AFL with more clarity, less "ad hoc" announcements, inappropriate gatherings and allegations of secret dealings. The AFL will be under greater scrutiny without the support of the 'old-boys network' to garner any hidden agenda.

I believe this process will be of huge benefit to the sport, players and us the public who are the unsecured investors in the business. We invest and get little return on that investment at this point in time.

 

[fishardansin]

Tin foil hat

So they're appealing the judgement are they? I thought they were throwing that out and having a whole new trial despite no new evidence coming to light.

Seems like double jeopardy to me.

Also seems like a waste of time. Surely if it was simply a matter of experienced judges not understanding what comfortable satisfaction was that could have been dealt with an appeal.

A deliberate waste of time by some bitter losers.

 

[fishardansin]

If the players were found guilty and then appealed, why would that be OK yet this is double jeopardy?

Because they should appeal the judgement. If it was wrong, then show how they set the bar too high or show what piece of evidence they misunderstood.

 

[fishardansin]

Ok, read it, then you will understand what double jeopardy means.

Yep, redoing the trial. Double jeopardy.

However, is it not technically double jeopardy because it was known to be part of this process, potentially, and that THERE WILL BE NO NEW EVIDENCE?

 

[Reality rules]

It still remains in play. Should they not participate until they find out either way?

Yeah fair comment. WADA are the last minute wonders!

 

[fishardansin]

Fish I beg to differ.

Correct me if I'm wrong that WADA is considering Appealing the decision handed down from the AFL Tribunal. This Appeal process is under the AFL PED Policies / Procedures and ASADA / WADA Codes. It was clearly stated that all parties reserved the right to Appeal a 'decision' if in the event any party felt aggrieved either by a ruling and or penalty prior to the first decisions being handed down.

Moreover, the players had always stated that they would appeal a 'guilty' verdict if any allegations were proved. The Governing Authority WADA has at it's disposal and discretion to Appeal and have the case heard by CAS. If I was supremely confident of the players innocence and have no case to answer, I would welcome the appeal with that supreme confidence.

Are you supremely confident?

Notwithstanding any issues of confidence, if WADA do proceed to the CAS, we can all be under no illusion that the final outcome will be final. With that confidence of a CAS decision, any real or perceived inadequacies of the AFL's conduct/ behavior, Policies / Procedures and or any manipulation of the Tribunal will be laid bare.

In essence the Appeal may even lead to 'worlds best practices' when managing PED's in the AFL with more clarity, less "ad hoc" announcements, inappropriate gatherings and allegations of secret dealings. The AFL will be under greater scrutiny without the support of the 'old-boys network' to garner any hidden agenda.

I believe this process will be of huge benefit to the sport, players and us the public who are the unsecured investors in the business. We invest and get little return on that invest at this point in time.

I respectfully disagree. The evidence was presented and a judgement made. There should be no new trial if the loser doesn't show the error in the judgement.

 

[fishardansin]

Yeah fair comment. WADA are the last minute wonders!

Well you have some people who act like Data trying to understand what Paul Little meant by the club not being prepared for a trial they aren't in, so clearly the club is moronic ... Yet when players are preparing for it they read something entirely different into it.

Cherry picking!!!

 

[Reality rules]

I respectfully disagree. The evidence was presented and a judgement made. There should be no new trial if the loser doesn't show the error in the judgement.

I know it differs from our standard legal practices but, this is a contractual obligation arbitration arrangement in the standard AFL Players contracts.

The AFLPA will have to lobby the AFL to amend the players contracts otherwise it remains.

 

[Reality rules]

Well you have some people who act like Data trying to understand what Paul Little meant by the club not being prepared for a trial they aren't in, so clearly the club is moronic ... Yet when players are preparing for it they read something entirely different into it.

Cherry picking!!!

I missed something with that?

 

[RIOLIUSTAR]

Someone seems upset

A Little more so than when the AFL tribunal judgement was handed down.

Personally I detest the slow pace since the AFL have been taken out of the equation and we aren't getting daily/weekly "updates"...now the was fun.

Hopefully we can get to the bottom of this awful mess.

Tick Tock...

 

[moistie]

YAWN..... ahhh thats right the burden of proof was too high.. thats what the problem was.. the AFL fix was on. Perhaps ASADA might actually need to do a better job of establishing that TB4 was even at the club in the first place.. small little hurdle you would think after 2 years and thousands of pages of evidence.

You forgot to you use words... "PHARMACOLOGICALLY EXPERIMENTAL ENVIRONMENT"

No, it was taking performance enhancing drugs in an effort to cheat the competition and gain an unfair advantage. And it worked for a while, too.

And yes, that was exactly the outcome the AFL wanted. And it was what they got.

Ask yourself why ASADA didn't appeal? Go beyond the "hurr... durr... ASADA dum, can't make case" the spin doctors and (highly compliant) media have fed you (they've got to protect the meal ticket, being shunned by the biggest sport in town is a death sentence to a news outlet) and use the grey matter your posting suggests you have. ASADA knew the deck was stacked. What was the point in appealing to the same tribunal that set the burden of proof so high. There was no way they could ever prove with absolute certainty that the drugs were taken because Essendon DESTROYED ALL THE EVIDENCE.

To try to claim the tribunal refusing to punish a club found to have imported and injected performance enhancing drugs into its players, due to the club destroying all records, as a sign of innocence is an insult to any clear thinking, honest person.

Our media and the AFL have shat the bed and they're trying to tell us its chocolate. But I sure as hell ain't buying what they're selling.

 

[Badesumofu]

Double Jeopardy is something that exists in the criminal justice system. It simply doesn't apply here. There is no jeopardy in sports anti-doping. Maybe if you want to discuss whether or not there should be could be the subject of a discussion - but it doesn't seem to be very relevant to the subject of this thread.

 

[Ancient Tiger]

I respectfully disagree. The evidence was presented and a judgement made. There should be no new trial if the loser doesn't show the error in the judgement.

I would have thought the appeal is exactly that; if successful it will demonstrate that there was an error in judgement made by the AFL tribunal.

 

[fishardansin]

I would have thought the appeal is exactly that; if successful it will demonstrate that there was an error in judgement made by the AFL tribunal.

Yeah it should be working off that. It's simply ignoring it. Personally I hope the players lawyers just hand in their notes and the judgement from the last trial in.

 

[Kerleys Ghost]

I would have thought the appeal is exactly that; if successful it will demonstrate that there was an error in judgement made by the AFL tribunal.

Bingo.

They are appealing the decision. Fairly simple.

appeal
əˈpiːl/
verb

2. Law

apply to a higher court for a reversal of the decision of a lower court.

 

[Proper Gander]

So they're appealing the judgement are they? I thought they were throwing that out and having a whole new trial despite no new evidence coming to light.

Seems like double jeopardy to me.

Also seems like a waste of time. Surely if it was simply a matter of experienced judges not understanding what comfortable satisfaction was that could have been dealt with an appeal.

A deliberate waste of time by some bitter losers.

I don't get this. WADA are appealing the decision. Why on earth would they be bitter losers?

 

[fishardansin]

I don't get this. WADA are appealing the decision. Why on earth would they be bitter losers?

The method. The slowest most annoying method. Why not appeal at the tribunal.

 

[Randomizor]

The method. The slowest most annoying method. Why not appeal at the tribunal.

You mean like when Essendon chose to not let the process play out and went through the slowest most annoying method by going to the courts instead?

Take your blinkers off.