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Pessimistic
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Will they go undefeated in the H&A ? If they do, it would make it even more disastrous (for them)if they didn't win the flag
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gO aWAY
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PISS OFF PESS YOU PUSS
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Lohnjohn
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Pess I am with you, hoping they go all the way in the home and away rounds.
I would love to see how the leagues biggest chokers perform with that pressure.
I would love to see how the leagues biggest chokers perform with that pressure.
Dave
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Hang on a minute, we're not talking about North here.
Im calling em out, I reckon this week that the Crows will knock em of.
Just a gut feeling after how most were giving Melbourne a chance I think there could be a little bit of a let down.
Just a gut feeling after how most were giving Melbourne a chance I think there could be a little bit of a let down.
Bloodstained Angel
Premiership Player
You maybe right Grendel but for the Crows to have any chance at all Shaun Rehn must lift his game.
I thought Spider Burton made the whole Crows ruck division look a little silly last week...
I thought Spider Burton made the whole Crows ruck division look a little silly last week...
I don't see how the crows can possibly match it with Essendon, lets be honest North aren't at the top of their game and for most of the night the crows were down by 5-8 goals at home.
Having said that, I really hope that I'm wrong and the crows give the bombers a run for their money on the hard Colonial Stadium surface, but still not take the points off them. We have to play them there next week!
Having said that, I really hope that I'm wrong and the crows give the bombers a run for their money on the hard Colonial Stadium surface, but still not take the points off them. We have to play them there next week!
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Tealmeister
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No team has ever gone through an entire season undefeated. Hopefully that will change this year. Just because it's never happened before doesn't mean it's impossible.
I'd love to see it happen, but I suspect somewhere along the line we'll drop a couple.
Unfortunately for Essendon, as was tragically made clear last year, the only way into the grand final is through a sudden death prelim final. The new finals system this year doesn't change that.
But I don't think Essendon will fall over in the prelim this year. *Fingers crossed touching wood!!!*
I'd love to see it happen, but I suspect somewhere along the line we'll drop a couple.
Unfortunately for Essendon, as was tragically made clear last year, the only way into the grand final is through a sudden death prelim final. The new finals system this year doesn't change that.
But I don't think Essendon will fall over in the prelim this year. *Fingers crossed touching wood!!!*
Well, the Bombers havn't put a foot wrong so far. Every win they have makes it a little easier for them. 16 more wins to go. At the start of the season, it was 25 wins to go !
The pressure will be good for them. The pressure certainly helped Carlton in 1995. A loss will only create self-doubt for the Bombers.
Sure, they could learn from a loss, but who says that loss they have to learn from has to be in 2000 ? It can be last years loss.
If Essendon were undefeated in the home and away, the MOTIVATION to win the Grand Final would be enourmous. The moment they drop a game, the motivation will cease to be as high.
That's why I hope we continue to kiss ass. We will be motivated to keep the incredible streak alive. Can you imagine the motivation on Grand Fianl day, to go through the season undefeated ? The pressure of Grand Fianl day affects both team.
Essendon would be more motivated than their opponents if they entered the finals undefeated.
P.S. There is no law stating that you have to drop a game.
The pressure will be good for them. The pressure certainly helped Carlton in 1995. A loss will only create self-doubt for the Bombers.
Sure, they could learn from a loss, but who says that loss they have to learn from has to be in 2000 ? It can be last years loss.
If Essendon were undefeated in the home and away, the MOTIVATION to win the Grand Final would be enourmous. The moment they drop a game, the motivation will cease to be as high.
That's why I hope we continue to kiss ass. We will be motivated to keep the incredible streak alive. Can you imagine the motivation on Grand Fianl day, to go through the season undefeated ? The pressure of Grand Fianl day affects both team.
Essendon would be more motivated than their opponents if they entered the finals undefeated.
P.S. There is no law stating that you have to drop a game.
sainter
ENGLISH PREMIER LEAGUE
Dan,
There is no law stating that you have to drop a game, just 100 years of history suggesting that it can't be done!
There is no law stating that you have to drop a game, just 100 years of history suggesting that it can't be done!
Arch
Good call!!!
Good call!!!
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Pessimistic
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Just to throw another furphy in there
One added pressure will be if the bombers end on top (which looks likely) and win the first final (likely if they meet certain teams) they then have a two week 'rest'. This is supposed to be an advantade for the top sides but Essendon have lost important games after the break. - You can bet they'll be working out strategies to counter that.
One added pressure will be if the bombers end on top (which looks likely) and win the first final (likely if they meet certain teams) they then have a two week 'rest'. This is supposed to be an advantade for the top sides but Essendon have lost important games after the break. - You can bet they'll be working out strategies to counter that.
I don't think the weeks rest is a factor.
Most teams over the last 20 years that have had a rest have won. It just gives you more time to get your injured players back. It has nothing to do with fitnes. Players are fit and have no excuses for not running out a game, rest or no rest.
Yeah, it's more about getting your players back. We saw North have a comforatable victory over Brisbane last year, despite Brisbane having won ther last 10 games by an average margin of 10 goals. North had had a weeks rest.
And even the Bombers had 9 more scoring shots than the Blues last year, so I don't think it is a factor. Any time you have more of a break between games has to be an advantage.
Look at Hawthorn in 1988-89 (and even in 1991). Collingwod in 1990 (after they beat Essendon in the second-semi final). There are countless examples of a weeks rest benefitting a team
Most teams over the last 20 years that have had a rest have won. It just gives you more time to get your injured players back. It has nothing to do with fitnes. Players are fit and have no excuses for not running out a game, rest or no rest.
Yeah, it's more about getting your players back. We saw North have a comforatable victory over Brisbane last year, despite Brisbane having won ther last 10 games by an average margin of 10 goals. North had had a weeks rest.
And even the Bombers had 9 more scoring shots than the Blues last year, so I don't think it is a factor. Any time you have more of a break between games has to be an advantage.
Look at Hawthorn in 1988-89 (and even in 1991). Collingwod in 1990 (after they beat Essendon in the second-semi final). There are countless examples of a weeks rest benefitting a team
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Longjohn
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But the week off, would give them longer to think about choking, is that what happened last year?
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Pessimistic
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Dan, You mentioned last year - I don't know if the weeks rest was seen as a factor but essendon also lost to carlton in 1993 (first weeks finals, whatever it was called then). they were minor premiers and had a bye in the last round. (nobody overtook them even though they had a bye) I think they mentioned the week off was a factorthen. after that they played a few weeks in a row and won all of them to take the flag (admitted it was a very even season)
A bit like the crows winning week after week with no week off (admittedly they got the doggies both times, as woeful at finals as the crows are masters)
A bit like the crows winning week after week with no week off (admittedly they got the doggies both times, as woeful at finals as the crows are masters)
Dave
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Dunno LJ, you tell us, after all you've had enough experience of it.
Pessimistic,
When the bye existed from 1991 to 1995, the teams that had it won about 70 of games. it was a huge advantage. I don't have the stats in front of me, but trust me, the figures were in favour of the team that had the rest.
Concerning 1993. In the Qualifying Final which we lost by two points we had a spate of injuries (most of whom would return in the next couple of weeks). It was a fantastically highly skilled game, where both teams played well. It was obvious being at the ground that the weeks rest was not a factor. How could it be ?t was a marvellous game of pressure, skill, and intensity.
Essendon had more scroing shots too (14.14.98 to 15.10 100 ) despite losing by a point.
Oh sure some teams have lost after having a weeks rest, but come on, what do you expect, a 100% success rate of something ?
Just because a team loses doesn't mean it was BECAUSE of the weeks rest. It would be due to other factors
Any chance to get injured players back is a bonus.
When the bye existed from 1991 to 1995, the teams that had it won about 70 of games. it was a huge advantage. I don't have the stats in front of me, but trust me, the figures were in favour of the team that had the rest.
Concerning 1993. In the Qualifying Final which we lost by two points we had a spate of injuries (most of whom would return in the next couple of weeks). It was a fantastically highly skilled game, where both teams played well. It was obvious being at the ground that the weeks rest was not a factor. How could it be ?t was a marvellous game of pressure, skill, and intensity.
Essendon had more scroing shots too (14.14.98 to 15.10 100 ) despite losing by a point.
Oh sure some teams have lost after having a weeks rest, but come on, what do you expect, a 100% success rate of something ?
Just because a team loses doesn't mean it was BECAUSE of the weeks rest. It would be due to other factors
Any chance to get injured players back is a bonus.
Longjohn, you're a cocky litle one aren't you.
For the record I am very proud of Essendons finals performances.
Look at 1996. We were only an average team (6th on the ladder), yet we were good enough to get within one point of both the top team (Sydney) and the 3rd placed team (Brisbane). I thought this was an incredible performance. Against incredible odds on the road against better opponents we matched them and only just went down.
Our victorys have been huge. Wins over West Coast in 1996, Sydney last year, West Coast again in 1995, West Coast again in 1993, and Carlton in the 1993 GF. They were all easy victorys for the Bombers.
I remember North Melbourne in the year they finished 6th (1995). Unlike the Bombers who only lost by a point when we finished 6th, North lost by about 10 goals to Carlton.
Not to mention Norths below par effort in 1997. BIG losers to the Saints. Even against the Crows in 1998, you didn't perform. You lost by nearly 6 goals that day.
As you can see, there are quite a few examples of North not performing in finals. 1993 was another example where you lost to West Coast by about 10 goals despite being 3 spots higher than them on the ladder AND the game being played in Victoria.
Name a recent Essendon final where we have been beaten easily (i.e not performed) ? You won't be able to name one. Essendon have, in recent years, ALWAYS performed in finals. A bit of bad luck has transpirted to be against us, but hey.....that's life. Yeah we've lost a few close ones, but at least we have performed on the day. We havn't gone down by big margins in finals like North has.
Hell, I can't help it if Kouta takes two big pack marks in the last quarter, in the goalsquare. Normally it is a good effort to take ONE big mark in pack for a whole game and this guy take TWO in the last quarter. Then we have Whitnall bombing goals from 60 metres on the boundary. I mean, what's that got to do with Essendon ?
I think having 9 more scoring shots than the Blues and going down so closely, indicates we performed. Unlike Norths THRASHINGS in finals. Now that's choking. Not performing is choking. Essendon have always performed. Sadly for North, they have copped some finals beltings.
Essendon don't get belted in finals. Not since 1990. (a year which incidently North missed the finals and got beaten by Essendon in the night Grand Final, as they were to in 2000)
For the record I am very proud of Essendons finals performances.
Look at 1996. We were only an average team (6th on the ladder), yet we were good enough to get within one point of both the top team (Sydney) and the 3rd placed team (Brisbane). I thought this was an incredible performance. Against incredible odds on the road against better opponents we matched them and only just went down.
Our victorys have been huge. Wins over West Coast in 1996, Sydney last year, West Coast again in 1995, West Coast again in 1993, and Carlton in the 1993 GF. They were all easy victorys for the Bombers.
I remember North Melbourne in the year they finished 6th (1995). Unlike the Bombers who only lost by a point when we finished 6th, North lost by about 10 goals to Carlton.
Not to mention Norths below par effort in 1997. BIG losers to the Saints. Even against the Crows in 1998, you didn't perform. You lost by nearly 6 goals that day.
As you can see, there are quite a few examples of North not performing in finals. 1993 was another example where you lost to West Coast by about 10 goals despite being 3 spots higher than them on the ladder AND the game being played in Victoria.
Name a recent Essendon final where we have been beaten easily (i.e not performed) ? You won't be able to name one. Essendon have, in recent years, ALWAYS performed in finals. A bit of bad luck has transpirted to be against us, but hey.....that's life. Yeah we've lost a few close ones, but at least we have performed on the day. We havn't gone down by big margins in finals like North has.
Hell, I can't help it if Kouta takes two big pack marks in the last quarter, in the goalsquare. Normally it is a good effort to take ONE big mark in pack for a whole game and this guy take TWO in the last quarter. Then we have Whitnall bombing goals from 60 metres on the boundary. I mean, what's that got to do with Essendon ?
I think having 9 more scoring shots than the Blues and going down so closely, indicates we performed. Unlike Norths THRASHINGS in finals. Now that's choking. Not performing is choking. Essendon have always performed. Sadly for North, they have copped some finals beltings.
Essendon don't get belted in finals. Not since 1990. (a year which incidently North missed the finals and got beaten by Essendon in the night Grand Final, as they were to in 2000)
Might be getting a bit cocky there yourself Dan.
Most teams have their fair share of suffering and dissappointments. Not just Essendon or North.
If you want teams that have consistently not performed in finals over the past decade look no further than Carlton and West Coast.
Carlton, 1995 aside, have had one decent finals performance since the 1993 GF and that was last year's PF. And they shoudln't have even been there after their annual humping up at the Gabba in a meaningless joke of a final. How many times have these guys been thumped big-style to end a season in the past decade?
WCE, admittedly have to deal with the travel factor each year but they have had a very poor return from some very good teams post 94 (and in 93 too).
At least the Dogs have been unlucky and on the end of a lot of heartbreakingly close losses (not as heartbreaking as ours but still).
Dutch
Most teams have their fair share of suffering and dissappointments. Not just Essendon or North.
If you want teams that have consistently not performed in finals over the past decade look no further than Carlton and West Coast.
Carlton, 1995 aside, have had one decent finals performance since the 1993 GF and that was last year's PF. And they shoudln't have even been there after their annual humping up at the Gabba in a meaningless joke of a final. How many times have these guys been thumped big-style to end a season in the past decade?
WCE, admittedly have to deal with the travel factor each year but they have had a very poor return from some very good teams post 94 (and in 93 too).
At least the Dogs have been unlucky and on the end of a lot of heartbreakingly close losses (not as heartbreaking as ours but still).
Dutch
Just one thing on the 96 finals series Dan.
If the Hawks hadnt been crucified up in Sydney like the Dons were two weeks later, you would have been elminated in the first week. The luckiest thing for you getting to the prelim final was Dunstall doing a knee in our elim final against them or we would have won. No doubt about it, however seeing as how you lost it after the siren maybe to have gone out quick might have been the better result haha
If the Hawks hadnt been crucified up in Sydney like the Dons were two weeks later, you would have been elminated in the first week. The luckiest thing for you getting to the prelim final was Dunstall doing a knee in our elim final against them or we would have won. No doubt about it, however seeing as how you lost it after the siren maybe to have gone out quick might have been the better result haha
Dan24
In defence of North's finals record....
In '93 vs West Coast at Arctic Park, well, we were in our first year of finals for a few years and we'll write that one off as a learning experience. We also carried a few injuries into the finals that year, but I remember just being happy to have even made the finals then (how things change).
In '95 vs Carlton, yeah, they did thrash us by 10 goals, but at three quarter time, we were within 3 goals. We fell apart to one of the great teams of the '90s that night.
The '97 finals series was one that I was truly proud of. McKernan had been carrying injuries all year, Carey was half fit, we lost Archer and Schwass to suspension, the team just couldn't get any momentum throughout the year, and we still finished in the preliminary final. I was just as proud of the players for having got us that far as you would have been of your injury riddled team of '96 coming within 1 point of the Grand Final that year.
The '98 Grand Final. No excuses there. We lost due to our woeful kicking and the brilliants of Rehn, Jarman, and McLeod, and the work of Caven on Carey and Smart all over the ground. They won the Premiership, end of story.
cheers
shinboners
In defence of North's finals record....
In '93 vs West Coast at Arctic Park, well, we were in our first year of finals for a few years and we'll write that one off as a learning experience. We also carried a few injuries into the finals that year, but I remember just being happy to have even made the finals then (how things change).
In '95 vs Carlton, yeah, they did thrash us by 10 goals, but at three quarter time, we were within 3 goals. We fell apart to one of the great teams of the '90s that night.
The '97 finals series was one that I was truly proud of. McKernan had been carrying injuries all year, Carey was half fit, we lost Archer and Schwass to suspension, the team just couldn't get any momentum throughout the year, and we still finished in the preliminary final. I was just as proud of the players for having got us that far as you would have been of your injury riddled team of '96 coming within 1 point of the Grand Final that year.
The '98 Grand Final. No excuses there. We lost due to our woeful kicking and the brilliants of Rehn, Jarman, and McLeod, and the work of Caven on Carey and Smart all over the ground. They won the Premiership, end of story.
cheers
shinboners
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Fibula
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So using your logic regarding your comments on Essendons finals:
1993 CHOKED
1995 CHOKED
1997 CHOKED
1998 CHOKED
1993 CHOKED
1995 CHOKED
1997 CHOKED
1998 CHOKED
Bloodstained Angel
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Indeed Fibula
One mans choke is another man's gallant fighting loss isn't it ?
all a question of 'spin' really .... and Grendel you are dead right about that '96 elimination final. I was there and I can say quite categorically that Hawthorn was tearing us up that night - untill Dunstall went down with a stuffed knee.
Swans got out of jail that night - thats for sure. As for the prelim final against Essendon I think it was different, the Bombers were not as good as Hawthorn in the earlier final, rather than a case of the Swans being very lucky it was more a case of the Swans have the edge in general play but were unable to shake off a presistant and dogged Essendon.
No disrespect to Essendon here, and Dan24 you have every right to be proud of your teams achievements for that year but if you want to compare the two finals, I think Hawthron were the tougher opponent for us no doubt.
But thats just how a Swans fan who has vivid memories of both games sees it
One mans choke is another man's gallant fighting loss isn't it ?
all a question of 'spin' really .... and Grendel you are dead right about that '96 elimination final. I was there and I can say quite categorically that Hawthorn was tearing us up that night - untill Dunstall went down with a stuffed knee.
Swans got out of jail that night - thats for sure. As for the prelim final against Essendon I think it was different, the Bombers were not as good as Hawthorn in the earlier final, rather than a case of the Swans being very lucky it was more a case of the Swans have the edge in general play but were unable to shake off a presistant and dogged Essendon.
No disrespect to Essendon here, and Dan24 you have every right to be proud of your teams achievements for that year but if you want to compare the two finals, I think Hawthron were the tougher opponent for us no doubt.
But thats just how a Swans fan who has vivid memories of both games sees it
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